1950s America: A Utopia?

[Death Metal]

But the GDP returned to pre-Depression levels in 1937. Furthermore, the GDP rose every year FDR was in office and unemployment dropped every year except I think 1939 (and the rise that year was corrected the next).

There was also a bust during the War, but that's what happens when almost all of your skilled workforce is fighting a war.

GDP returned, yes, but unemployment took a very, very long time to heal, so therefore the economy did not have a full recovery until '40.

If you only emphasize unemployment. Combine the two and 1938 was the return year, with a minimal bust in 1939, a recovery in 1940, another bust during the war (42 I think) with a recovery that was hampered by mass unemployment after WWII (because, again, the skilled workforce were fighting the war, replacing more than a few jobs with women who weren't regularly part of the American workforce at the time, and there just wasn't enough jobs to go around).

[Lerodan Chinamerica]

GDP returned, yes, but unemployment took a very, very long time to heal, so therefore the economy did not have a full recovery until '40.

I will point out that the US joined the war in '41, so he was correct in that case. The GDP and unemployment was fixed before the US got into WWII.

Not exactly. I was wrong saying that employment recovered in '40, when it was actually '42. http://www.nber.org/chapters/c2644.pdf

[Vicswampia]

I think that's taken out of proportion. Being firebombed for a last name, despite total integration, sounds a bit extreme.

Welcome to the 50's.

[Mkuki]

Which is a lot worse than just milling around like we did. Well, at least we gave financial aid to the Allies before 1941. That's more of a contribution already.

Weren't you also selling arms to the Germans, prolonging the war?

I don't think the United States government was selling weapons to the Third Reich. I may be wrong, though. A source would be nice.

[Minarchist States]

It's commonly accepted that the economy healed slowly till WWII.

Not at all. It's established fact that both GDP and industrial production recovered fairly rapidly under the new deal.

That's not what my old HS NJ textbook copy says, but w/e. I said it is commonly accepted.

[Lerodan Chinamerica]

GDP returned, yes, but unemployment took a very, very long time to heal, so therefore the economy did not have a full recovery until '40.

If you only emphasize unemployment. Combine the two and 1938 was the return year, with a minimal bust in 1939, a recovery in 1940, another bust during the war (42 I think) with a recovery that was hampered by mass unemployment after WWII (because, again, the skilled workforce were fighting the war, replacing more than a few jobs with women who weren't regularly part of the American workforce at the time, and there just wasn't enough jobs to go around).

Alright, I'll give you that. But my point was that FDR's regressive taxes and destructive programs exacerbated what could have been a short recession. It could've been over a helluva lot sooner.

[Death Metal]

I will point out that the US joined the war in '41, so he was correct in that case. The GDP and unemployment was fixed before the US got into WWII.

Not exactly. I was wrong saying that employment recovered in '40, when it was actually '42. http://www.nber.org/chapters/c2644.pdf

Those numbers count people who weren't in the workforce at Pre-War time, and again, unemployment is NOT the sole measure of economic recovery.

[Blasveck]

Weren't you also selling arms to the Germans, prolonging the war?

I don't think the United States government was selling weapons to the Third Reich. I may be wrong, though. A source would be nice.

I don't think it was the Third Reich.

Maybe the Weimar Republic. I'm not sure.

[Lerodan Chinamerica]

Not exactly. I was wrong saying that employment recovered in '40, when it was actually '42. http://www.nber.org/chapters/c2644.pdf

Those numbers count people who weren't in the workforce at Pre-War time, and again, unemployment is NOT the sole measure of economic recovery.

But it's one of the measures, and you can't have a 'full' recovery until a number of factors have returned to pre-crisis standards: labour force participation, GDP, employment.

[Minarchist States]

I think that's taken out of proportion. Being firebombed for a last name, despite total integration, sounds a bit extreme.

That's why I said radical reactionaries. Most Americans aren't radical reactionaries, but, yeah, I was exaggerating some.

The 1950s was an extreme time.

Well thankfully Polish Americans are completely integrated now and no one is firebombing... Italians on the other hand...

[Pacifornia]

Greasy slicked hair, 30s hot rod, cuffed jeans. Sounds nice but then there's that whole "civil rights" predicament. I would have some bad luck since I'm Hispanic :/

[Mkuki]

That's why I said radical reactionaries. Most Americans aren't radical reactionaries, but, yeah, I was exaggerating some.

The 1950s was an extreme time.

Well thankfully Polish Americans are completely integrated now and no one is firebombing... Italians on the other hand...

You probably would have had an easier time with a Polish last name.

[Hetalian Indie Rio de Janeiro]

That's why I said radical reactionaries. Most Americans aren't radical reactionaries, but, yeah, I was exaggerating some.

The 1950s was an extreme time.

I'd be suspicious of people who agree with laissez-faire in an almost common sense fashion and that are still judgemental of other people for being slightly uncommon (idiotic fad labels such as hipster, emo, ghey, etc. went mainstream... I'd expect this from uneducated Brazilians, not people in a developed country), but well, the political status quo in Japan is pretty much equivalent to Mexico's (though the EARLIER are so desperate they copied the Bolsa Família welfare system of Brazil ), it doesn't mean they are radical reactionaries.

[Siaos]

Not exactly. I was wrong saying that employment recovered in '40, when it was actually '42. http://www.nber.org/chapters/c2644.pdf

Those numbers count people who weren't in the workforce at Pre-War time, and again, unemployment is NOT the sole measure of economic recovery.

Not on the percent of labor force part of the graph. It shows a clear and massive lowering of unemployment between '40 and '42(10 percent difference). This is, of course, due to the much lower size of the workforce because of war.

[Death Metal]

If you only emphasize unemployment. Combine the two and 1938 was the return year, with a minimal bust in 1939, a recovery in 1940, another bust during the war (42 I think) with a recovery that was hampered by mass unemployment after WWII (because, again, the skilled workforce were fighting the war, replacing more than a few jobs with women who weren't regularly part of the American workforce at the time, and there just wasn't enough jobs to go around).

Alright, I'll give you that. But my point was that FDR's regressive taxes and destructive programs exacerbated what could have been a short recession.

Hardly. It was because of the New Deal that it was over as early as it was. It's true most of the New Deal jobs were essentially welfare, but this gave Americans a paycheck, and with that paycheck came the means to consume products more readily than they were before. The real reason the Depression lasted as long as it did was because during the Hoover era, consumerism was so dismally low because the working class couldn't afford to be consumers. FDR reversed that trend.

[Mkuki]

That's why I said radical reactionaries. Most Americans aren't radical reactionaries, but, yeah, I was exaggerating some.

The 1950s was an extreme time.

I'd be suspicious of people who agree with laissez-faire in an almost common sense fashion and that are still judgemental of other people for being slightly uncommon (idiotic fad labels such as hipster, emo, ghey, etc. went mainstream... I'd expect this from uneducated Brazilians, not people in a developed country), but well, the political status quo in Japan is pretty much equivalent to Mexico's (though the EARLIER are so desperate they copied the Bolsa Família welfare system of Brazil ), it doesn't mean they are radical reactionaries.

What? I didn't understand any of that.

[The Scientific States]

It was great so long as you were white, upper class, Christian, not a ebul commie, had "family values" and weren't homosexual it would've been great for you.

Otherwise life would probably suck for you.

[Minarchist States]

I'd be suspicious of people who agree with laissez-faire in an almost common sense fashion and that are still judgemental of other people for being slightly uncommon (idiotic fad labels such as hipster, emo, ghey, etc. went mainstream... I'd expect this from uneducated Brazilians, not people in a developed country), but well, the political status quo in Japan is pretty much equivalent to Mexico's (though the EARLIER are so desperate they copied the Bolsa Família welfare system of Brazil ), it doesn't mean they are radical reactionaries.

What? I didn't understand any of that.

I think he's on to me...

You probably would have had an easier time with a Polish last name

ditto

[Siaos]

Well thankfully Polish Americans are completely integrated now and no one is firebombing... Italians on the other hand...

You probably would have had an easier time with a Polish last name.

German last names were stylish until the nazis came around. English last names were some of the best at the time, however.

[Page]

For well to do white folks, I suppose it was pretty rad. Kinda like America now.

[Empire of Narnia]

It was great so long as you were white, upper class, Christian, not a ebul commie, had "family values" and weren't homosexual it would've been great for you.

Otherwise life would probably suck for you.

So for the majority of the population it was great........

[Minarchist States]

You probably would have had an easier time with a Polish last name.

German last names were stylish until the nazis came around. English last names were some of the best at the time, however.

Yet no one expected Eisenhower...

[Siaos]

It was great so long as you were white, upper class, Christian, not a ebul commie, had "family values" and weren't homosexual it would've been great for you.

Otherwise life would probably suck for you.

In other words, if you were a Lesbian arabic anarcho-communist free-love muslim woman, you're screwed.

[The Scientific States]

It was great so long as you were white, upper class, Christian, not a ebul commie, had "family values" and weren't homosexual it would've been great for you.

Otherwise life would probably suck for you.

So for the majority of the population it was great........

I'm not sure how much of the general population was upper class...but yeah a lot of people in that time period led generally happy lives, while others did not.

[Condunum]

No, god no. The world is hostile enough to LGBTQ today. I do not wish to be prosecuted for it.