Semiautomatic rifles to be Assault Weapons in CA

[Frisivisia]

Do I need to go and find Spreewerke's trenchcoat pics again?
An average-build man can carry on his person a loaded AK-type rifle and a loaded shotgun, together.

Another member of this board, who has previously served in the Russian security forces in Chechnya, has arrested a man who managed to hide a PK general-purpose machine gun, loaded, under a large coat.

shh! ebil big black guns scare me so I want them out of sight! at least if I get shot I don't have to see them!

But I need to have it out to compensate for my small pe- amount of power.

[DnalweN acilbupeR]

...
Quite frankly I find the argument that gun ownership lowers the level of violent crime to be completely at odds with the statistics... and strangely enough NRA advocates don't seem to be in favour of minorities having guns generally... I mean I don't see anyone making the argument that Trayvon Martin's death might have been averted if he was armed....

Because it has been commonly accepted by even the pro-gun community that children can be legitimately restricted from the right to bear arms and, specifically, carry them concealed because they are more prone to emotional outbursts or possible misuse.

I'm fully in favor of minorities having access to firearms. In fact, one major problem with gun-control policies in cities like Chicago or Detroit (or California) is its disparate impact on the ability of the (predominantly poorer) minorities living there from being capable of defending themselves because (until recently) they either weren't allowed to at all or they are put through so many loops (many financial) that they can't afford the time and money to do so. These laws are racist and should be adjusted at the least. As they stand? Many display a frankly disturbing degree of belief that 'poor minorities shouldn't own guns because poor minorities only use them to ROB people and rape white wimmins!'.

Finally, statistically it seems to be that gun ownership is a wash at worst, or has somewhat of a negative impact to violent crime.

Harvard has a clear right-wing bias, didn't you know?

[DnalweN acilbupeR]

shh! ebil big black guns scare me so I want them out of sight! at least if I get shot I don't have to see them!

But I need to have it out to compensate for my small pe- amount of power.

The only logical conclusion is that women who open carry compensate for their small vaginas.

[Occupied Deutschland]

btw, can I just say what a pleasure it is to be part of a forum where godwin's law is so rarely invoked, and civil discourse is (for the most part) present? Honestly, I can understand the pro-gun position and the arguments, I just don't agree with them. But nothing positive comes from demonising the other side or creating strawmen. While it has been shown that humans argue mainly for social heirarchy purposes rather than to find out the truth, everyone appreciates class.

stay classy, san diegans. (ps that means a whale's va***a)

NSG? Civil discourse?
...
I...I'm not sure how to respond. Either we're much better than I thought we were or the rest of the internet is much worse.

I suspect the latter.

[Imperializt Russia]

Actually, statistically speaking the mentally ill are far more likely to be the VICTIMS of violent crime than the perpetrators.

also, you're giving people a lot of credit for rational thinking, here. Human emotions and reasoning are pretty easy to manipulate. that's why the mainstream media on both sides can so easily bypass rational debate and sway people's emotions by things like appeals to patriotism, fear of foreigners, racism, misplaced righteousness and outrage. It's the same reason specious emails are forwarded to millions of people without anything so much as a basic facts check to see whether the story is true.

What I'm saying is, we should all have a tab for snopes constantly open.

If Average Joe won't stab his girlfriend when she cheats on him, there is no good reason to assume he'd shoot her would he have a gun.

Unfortunately for that line of argument, he does. About half of firearm homicides in 2012 that had a recorded and known cause (about 15-25% of all cases) were some form of argument escalation.
About 600 of the eight and a half thousand were gang-related, three quarters of those being juvenile gangs.

More than 1800 shootings, 1400 of them committed with handguns, are officially recorded by the FBI as being "other argument".

[Marlongrad]

...
Quite frankly I find the argument that gun ownership lowers the level of violent crime to be completely at odds with the statistics... and strangely enough NRA advocates don't seem to be in favour of minorities having guns generally... I mean I don't see anyone making the argument that Trayvon Martin's death might have been averted if he was armed....

Because it has been commonly accepted by even the pro-gun community that children can be legitimately restricted from the right to bear arms and, specifically, carry them concealed because they are more prone to emotional outbursts or possible misuse.

I'm fully in favor of minorities having access to firearms. In fact, one major problem with gun-control policies in cities like Chicago or Detroit (or California) is its disparate impact on the ability of the (predominantly poorer) minorities living there from being capable of defending themselves because (until recently) they either weren't allowed to at all or they are put through so many loops (many financial) that they can't afford the time and money to do so. These laws are racist and should be adjusted at the least. As they stand? Many display a frankly disturbing degree of belief that 'poor minorities shouldn't own guns because poor minorities only use them to ROB people and rape white wimmins!'.

Finally, statistically it seems to be that gun ownership is a wash at worst, or has somewhat of a negative impact to violent crime.

I'm too tired to read that now, but I downloaded the link to the study. looks like i gots me some tomorrow readins.

[DnalweN acilbupeR]

Really, up until this point, the best anti open carry arguments were " you do it cuz u have small dik " and " i'm scared of guns "

You could, you know, at least try.

[Marlongrad]

btw, can I just say what a pleasure it is to be part of a forum where godwin's law is so rarely invoked, and civil discourse is (for the most part) present? Honestly, I can understand the pro-gun position and the arguments, I just don't agree with them. But nothing positive comes from demonising the other side or creating strawmen. While it has been shown that humans argue mainly for social heirarchy purposes rather than to find out the truth, everyone appreciates class.

stay classy, san diegans. (ps that means a whale's va***a)

NSG? Civil discourse?
...
I...I'm not sure how to respond. Either we're much better than I thought we were or the rest of the internet is much worse.

I suspect the latter.

Have you SEEN the rest of the internet? Shit's filthy, son.

I like to play a game: I look at a random video on youtube involving a black person or some other race, and then I scroll down to the comments to see how far I can get before seeing a racial slur, a sexist diatribe, or a flat out call for genetic purity laws. When I find one, I take a shot. Then I take another one. Then I turn off my computer and just stare at a blank patch of wall.

[Vazdania]

By making it harder for everyone to obtain them.
One of the strategies is checking who's allowed to carry one through background checks. Another one is making sure you're not walking around guns blazing to scare people into submission.

Except for criminals.

Because I doubt that they care whether they get guns illegally or not.

I care!

Illegal gun cartels should be shut down, they are giving people guns who shouldn't have them!

[New Aerios]

Really, up until this point, the best anti open carry arguments were " you do it cuz u have small dik " and " i'm scared of guns "

You could, you know, at least try.

Shhhhh, they don't like being told that people who disagree with them probably have pretty average sized genitals.

[Marlongrad]

Really, up until this point, the best anti open carry arguments were " you do it cuz u have small dik " and " i'm scared of guns "

You could, you know, at least try.

so... you're not going to address his statistics about homicides, then?

[Imperializt Russia]

Except for criminals.

Because I doubt that they care whether they get guns illegally or not.

I care!

Illegal gun cartels should be shut down, they are giving people guns who shouldn't have them!

You miss the point. I'm not even sure you read the point.

If a criminal wants a firearm to commit a crime, he will go acquire one. If he can't acquire one legally, the guy who wants to do over the 7-11 at three in the morning will probably give up and resort to a crowbar or a lit firework - the would-be drug runner will source one through whatever source is available. Fuck legality.

[The Red Star Union]

Thank You!!! Maybe the NRA idiots will learn something.

[Frisivisia]

Really, up until this point, the best anti open carry arguments were " you do it cuz u have small dik " and " i'm scared of guns "

You could, you know, at least try.

It's good that you acknowledged that we aren't trying.

You see, here's the problem. The gun crowd has their statistics and their arguments, far too many of which assume that a gun is a shield that can "defend" you, and the gun control crowd has theirs. Eventually, everyone but the gun crowd gets tired and the gun crowd begins masturbating furiously to their guns. It's just not fun if you try.

[Vazdania]

Really, up until this point, the best anti open carry arguments were " you do it cuz u have small dik " and " i'm scared of guns "

You could, you know, at least try.

so... you're not going to address his statistics about homicides, then?

The majority of homicides within the US are done with hand guns[1]....we need to put a stronger emphasis and making sure those with hand guns won't use them to kill people!!!

[1]http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-8

[Frisivisia]

I care!

Illegal gun cartels should be shut down, they are giving people guns who shouldn't have them!

You miss the point. I'm not even sure you read the point.

If a criminal wants a firearm to commit a crime, he will go acquire one. If he can't acquire one legally, the guy who wants to do over the 7-11 at three in the morning will probably give up and resort to a crowbar or a lit firework - the would-be drug runner will source one through whatever source is available. Fuck legality.

If a criminal wants meth, he will get it. If he can't get it legally, he will get it illegally.

Legalize meth 2013!

[DnalweN acilbupeR]

Thank You!!! Maybe the NRA idiots will learn something.

What a well laid out, immaculately articulated and deeply profound response. I must congratulate you.

[New Aerios]

You miss the point. I'm not even sure you read the point.

If a criminal wants a firearm to commit a crime, he will go acquire one. If he can't acquire one legally, the guy who wants to do over the 7-11 at three in the morning will probably give up and resort to a crowbar or a lit firework - the would-be drug runner will source one through whatever source is available. Fuck legality.

If a criminal wants meth, he will get it. If he can't get it legally, he will get it illegally.

Legalize meth 2013!

If a criminal wants anything, he will get it illegally. This means law abiding citizens shouldn't be allowed it.

Ban everything 2013!

[Imperializt Russia]

so... you're not going to address his statistics about homicides, then?

The majority of homicides within the US are done with hand guns[1]....we need to put a stronger emphasis and making sure those with hand guns won't use them to kill people!!!

[1]http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-8

I personally prefer table 11, which is a breakdown of all weapons and the circumstances in which they were used.

[DnalweN acilbupeR]

Really, up until this point, the best anti open carry arguments were " you do it cuz u have small dik " and " i'm scared of guns "

You could, you know, at least try.

so... you're not going to address his statistics about homicides, then?

Statistics addressing homicides taking in account open and concealed carry? Where?

[Free Soviets]

only in the hobbesian state of nature sense. but the hobbesian state of nature sucks, so we formed society instead. the 'liberty' of an individual to do whatever the fuck they want reduces the overall level of liberty in a society. thus, we can routinely regulate things and increase liberty in the process. guns turn out to be one of those things that need strict regulation - possibly to the point of banning almost all of them - in order to maximize societal liberty (to say nothing of flourishing).

Even starting from the notion of society being able to reduce individual liberty to increase overall societal liberty, I'm having trouble seeing how banning weapons maximizes societal liberty.

let's start with the easy one. would unrestricted access to nuclear bombs give the each particular individual in a society more liberty? obviously not - it would give lunatics and madmen 'liberty' to nuke the fuck out of the rest of us, thereby reducing our liberty to radioactive ashes. so fuck that bullshit 'liberty'.

[Vazdania]

The majority of homicides within the US are done with hand guns[1]....we need to put a stronger emphasis and making sure those with hand guns won't use them to kill people!!!

[1]http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-8

I personally prefer table 11, which is a breakdown of all weapons and the circumstances in which they were used.

table 8 is better in my opinion in regards to firearms.

[New Aerios]

Even starting from the notion of society being able to reduce individual liberty to increase overall societal liberty, I'm having trouble seeing how banning weapons maximizes societal liberty.

let's start with the easy one. would unrestricted access to nuclear bombs give the each particular individual in a society more liberty? obviously not - it would give lunatics and madmen 'liberty' to nuke the fuck out of the rest of us, thereby reducing our liberty to radioactive ashes. so fuck that bullshit 'liberty'.

Yeah, that's great, but NO ONE IS TALKING ABOUT LEGALISING NUCLEAR WEAPONS.

I'm actually surprised we got this far on a thread about guns before someone went "hurr durr wy do u want 2 have nooks every1?"

[DnalweN acilbupeR]

Even starting from the notion of society being able to reduce individual liberty to increase overall societal liberty, I'm having trouble seeing how banning weapons maximizes societal liberty.

let's start with the easy one. would unrestricted access to nuclear bombs give the each particular individual in a society more liberty? obviously not - it would give lunatics and madmen 'liberty' to nuke the fuck out of the rest of us, thereby reducing our liberty to radioactive ashes. so fuck that bullshit 'liberty'.

Who would have thought that "tanks n nukes" could actually be used as an argument in a gun related thread without being completely irrelevant. I must applaud you sir.

[Franklin Delano Bluth]

let's start with the easy one. would unrestricted access to nuclear bombs give the each particular individual in a society more liberty? obviously not - it would give lunatics and madmen 'liberty' to nuke the fuck out of the rest of us, thereby reducing our liberty to radioactive ashes. so fuck that bullshit 'liberty'.

Yeah, that's great, but NO ONE IS TALKING ABOUT LEGALISING NUCLEAR WEAPONS.

I'm actually surprised we got this far on a thread about guns before someone went "hurr durr wy do u want 2 have nooks every1?"

So is an utter inability to deal in anything but concretes your badge of pride?