Should Marx and Engels be required reading in high school?

[The Grey Wolf]

Mein Kampf is a good book, make it required reading in high school.

Have you actually read it? It's all about how awesome and manly he was, it has good for nothing explanations for his policies and it's terribly written.

Read half of it. Your post suggest you haven't actually read it.

[Camelza]

Have you actually read it? It's all about how awesome and manly he was, it has good for nothing explanations for his policies and it's terribly written.

Read half of it. Your post suggest you haven't actually read it.

Read it all, then come back again.

[Kalarin]

No firstly because I'm fairly sure that most teachers may not feel comfortable teaching it and secondly it would need to be balanced with opposing political views or people would see it as downright indoctrination.

[PeopleRule]

Marx proves wrong because he underestimates how little settles the common spirit. Prefer high school teach those who got it right, just the facts instead of confusing, conflicting opinions. Capitalism and rugged individualism. Equality of opportunity. The Declaration, the Constitution, and the tax code. LOL ....... Actually, we handicap our youth because they are not taught world religion or history with any kind of serious relevance to what makes us, US. We are the sweepings of countries throughout the world added to an indigenous population that still ROCKS!

[Pragia]

We don't require Rand, nor should we require Marx

[Edlichbury]

No firstly because I'm fairly sure that most teachers may not feel comfortable teaching it and secondly it would need to be balanced with opposing political views or people would see it as downright indoctrination.

Because there is currently a balance of political views? American exceptionalism is widely taught, so is that indoctrination?

[Kalarin]

No firstly because I'm fairly sure that most teachers may not feel comfortable teaching it and secondly it would need to be balanced with opposing political views or people would see it as downright indoctrination.

Because there is currently a balance of political views? American exceptionalism is widely taught, so is that indoctrination?

Obviously yes but I don't live in the US nor do I know its "education" system. Looking at this from a British perspective then yes it would be indoctrination to teach Marx at high school.

[The Parkus Empire]

Sure, as long as you include Mussolini and Hitler. Maybe make Crusade in Spain by Eoin O'Duffy required reading as well.

We've been over this time and fucking time again.

What quality has Mein Kampf to commend itself to a reader? It does not make supported argument, it does not encourage critical thinking, the work is poorly written and organized--what's more, it's very Germanic-centric, it is irrelevant to anyone of another heritage.

No, it should not be required. Just like reading Adam Smith should not be required.
There is no reason why schools should force Marx on students, because if we do that, we would have to force the writings of; Lenin, Mao, Malthus, Mussolini, Hitler, Smith, etc....

Most of those writings are not scientific in methodology. Adam Smith is, though, if you want to make an argument for making some of his writings required.

I don't see the importance of extensively teaching that content. It is based on delusions of grandeur and paranoia, not logic or reason, not even faulty logic or reason. Understanding the idea of racial supremacy historically is fine, but I don't think it needs to be taught in depth since there isn't any depth.

Now if you want to discuss or examine nationalism, again I propose Machiavelli's Discourses as very worthwhile work on the matter.

Mein Kampf is assuredly not the core of fascism, it is the core of bitter, populist scapegoating.

[The Parkus Empire]

Have you actually read it? It's all about how awesome and manly he was, it has good for nothing explanations for his policies and it's terribly written.

Read half of it. Your post suggest you haven't actually read it.

It is terribly written, it sounds like a tern-year-old who is "mature for his age" wrote it. It's worthwhile for Hitler buffs or perhaps even WWII buffs--it's a good read if you want a vivid portrayal of egomania, but it is devoid of anything of value politically, philosophically or socially.

[Divair]

We don't require Rand

Yes we do..

[Edlichbury]

Have you actually read it? It's all about how awesome and manly he was, it has good for nothing explanations for his policies and it's terribly written.

Read half of it. Your post suggest you haven't actually read it.

It is one of the worst books written. The only readable part of it was plagiarized.

[Pragia]

We don't require Rand

Yes we do..

At least over here at any of the nearby schools we don't. Never heard of anyone being required to read Rand.

[Middleton St George]

I'm not talking about The Communist Manifesto, I'm talking about works like Capital and The Origin of the Family.

In my opinion, yes, at least part of some their works. Marx's works encouraged critical thinking and helped pioneer social study as a science. The works offer vital insight into importance of classic struggle in history and economics.

Thoughts?

So if it is only because of his contribution to critical thinking and sociology, why not choose some other texts, without all the political baggage?
Also the importance of the class struggle in history is by no means universally accepted - and should only be suggested along side other theories such as Whig history, and (the most compelling) the theory that History doesn't follow theories!

[Edlichbury]

I'm not talking about The Communist Manifesto, I'm talking about works like Capital and The Origin of the Family.

In my opinion, yes, at least part of some their works. Marx's works encouraged critical thinking and helped pioneer social study as a science. The works offer vital insight into importance of classic struggle in history and economics.

Thoughts?

So if it is only because of his contribution to critical thinking and sociology, why not choose some other texts, without all the political baggage?
Also the importance of the class struggle in history is by no means universally accepted - and should only be suggested along side other theories such as Whig history, and (the most compelling) the theory that History doesn't follow theories!

It was the foundation of social sciences. It would be the equivalent of not teaching The Wealth of Nations or the Declaration of Independence because of "political baggage."
And if you are really concerned about "political baggage" you aren't a historian at all.

[The Parkus Empire]

Yes we do..

At least over here at any of the nearby schools we don't. Never heard of anyone being required to read Rand.

Rand argues using a special little hypothetical society she made up, Marx argues using actual society.

[Arglorand]

I'm just going to point out that Das Kapital is not about communism, it is about capitalism - about capitalist economics, to be precise - and is certainly a very important part of the development of economics as a science and, contrary to popular belief, does not agitate for sticking people into gulags.

[The Parkus Empire]

So if it is only because of his contribution to critical thinking and sociology, why not choose some other texts, without all the political baggage?

That's sort of his magnum opus and what brought his contributions to the academic table.

Also the importance of the class struggle in history is by no means universally accepted

Things like the French Revolution and the Magna Carta and women's suffrage were about dipping sauce.

- and should only be suggested along side other theories such as Whig history, and (the most compelling) the theory that History doesn't follow theories!

If social behavior didn't follow any theories then it would be impossible to make a living as a technical speculator.

[Anachronous Rex]

Well, so much for the Declaration of Independence...

And Common Sense...

And Wealth of Nations...

Hell, I'm pretty sure we just threw out everything from the Magna Carta to the Code of Hammurabi...

Maybe we can have them read the Golden Bull?

[Scandza]

Maybe for serious economic classes, but my god you would get no where with requiring those books to be read. Political standings aside, Marx and Engels books are some of the most dry intense readings you could ever assign someone. Teachers had hard enough time getting people to read interesting books let alone things like Das Kapital.

[North Calaveras]

No.

We don't need our children indoctrinated into atheist communism.

It doesn't indoctrinate you, Marx explicitly says he invites criticism.

I was in a poli sci class in college and that place was already socialist marx isnt required he aleeady has a grip...

[Union of Confederate Socialist Republics]

It would be nice.

[Uiiop]

I suppose along with all the other papers. Might have to wait til college to get all of it though.

It doesn't indoctrinate you, Marx explicitly says he invites criticism.

I was in a poli sci class in college and that place was already socialist marx isnt required he aleeady has a grip...

How was it socialist and what makes you think it applies to all schools? Even if it's pinko you are aware that marx doesn't have a grip on all of it.

[Slafstopia]

Of course. As long as it's not the Communist Manifesto, like you specified in the OP, or else all the idiots who have no fucking clue what communism is would be pissing themselves and suing the school. Probably calling them traitors. But other works of Marx and Engels should be fine since they don't mention the word "communist" in the title.

[The Parkus Empire]

It doesn't indoctrinate you, Marx explicitly says he invites criticism.

I was in a poli sci class in college and that place was already socialist marx isnt required he aleeady has a grip...

So your criticism of Marx is that you find his arguments are persuasive?

[God Kefka]

Well, so much for the Declaration of Independence...

Yeah, that's a bit too radical as well now that you mention it.

Can't really have a situation where American students aren't exposed at least a little to the one of the FOUNDATIONAL documents of their own country now can we?

Nice try...