Abortion and Libertarianism

[Cu Math]

What person? There is no removal or killing of any person involved.

Please indulge me, why is the fetus not a person? It is underdeveloped human, why do you believe it is not a person?

What person? There is no removal or killing of any person involved.

Yes, the unborn child. It has a full set of human DNA, a working brain and cardiovascular system, and meats all the scientific classifications for life.

A fetus fails almost all requirements to be considered life. it doesn't:
maintain homeostasis
possess a capacity to grow by itself (it's like a virus in this regard)
respond to stimuli
reproduce

[Torcularis Septentrionalis]

A person has to be born.

Why?

Because a person cannot be inside of someone else.

[Siaos]

Yes, the unborn child. It has a full set of human DNA, a working brain and cardiovascular system, and meats all the scientific classifications for life.

So does a tumor, sans the brain and cardiovascular system. Don't tell me these two organs are the criteria for classifying something as a person now.

No, a tumor does not have a working brain and cardiovascular system. Unless its one of those tumors from the YouTube Rejected clips of course.

[Keronians]

Ah yes, none of it is your responsibility. It's all her fault.

Additionally, not everyone has received proper sex education, birth control is not free (and is heavily stigmatized in many communities) and there are men who pressure their significant others into having sex without condoms. Most unwanted pregnancies happen to women who are young (therefore easily influenced and manipulated), poor and uneducated.

2hard4me, Dak... You mean that there are people out there without access to contraceptives or knowledge on how to use them?! Holy cow! I thought poor people were a myth!!!

To be fair, those people are unlikely to have access to abortion either, and are sure as hell going to be heavily stigmatised for it.

[Furious Grandmothers]

What person? There is no removal or killing of any person involved.

Please indulge me, why is the fetus not a person? It is underdeveloped human, why do you believe it is not a person?

Because words have meanings.

[Siaos]

Why?

Because a person cannot be inside of someone else.

So if I put my had inside of a someone's mouth a cease to be a person? If a man(God forbid) eats a baby, is the baby no longer a person?

[North Yakistan]

I have no problem with Sex, its great, but if a woman dosnt want to become pregnant she should be responsible, use birth control, and make sure her partner uses a condom

Ah yes, none of it is your responsibility. It's all her fault.

Additionally, not everyone has received proper sex education, birth control is not free (and is heavily stigmatized in many communities) and there are men who pressure their significant others into having sex without condoms. Most unwanted pregnancies happen to women who are young (therefore easily influenced and manipulated), poor and uneducated.

1. You libs need to quit putting words in my mouth, that seems to be the only way most of you can argue. It is BOTH peoples fault and thats why i support stronger child support laws.

2. There are places where you can get condoms for free.

[Frisivisia]

Right. Because rapists listen. And if only we didn't have the GOP trying to ban contraceptives.

have you listened to anything i have said? you are just another stereotypical liberal assuming im a stereotypical republican.

1. I do not want to make abortion illegal
2. I have no problem with abortion in the case of Rape, Incest, Birth Defects, Danger to the mother or totaly inability of the child to survive after birth. However if its just out of convenience i consider that murder

Are rape babies worth less than other babies?

[Torcularis Septentrionalis]

2hard4me, Dak... You mean that there are people out there without access to contraceptives or knowledge on how to use them?! Holy cow! I thought poor people were a myth!!!

To be fair, those people are unlikely to have access to abortion either, and are sure as hell going to be heavily stigmatised for it.

There are entire websites dedicated to giving women in need of funds the ability to pay for their abortion, thousands of volunteers ready to assist women in whatever way they can, etc.

[Siaos]

Please indulge me, why is the fetus not a person? It is underdeveloped human, why do you believe it is not a person?

Because words have meanings.

That's the legal version, I want the real version, not just what the US government defines as a "person"

For example, slaves were once not considered people, but that wasn't right was it?

[Torcularis Septentrionalis]

Because a person cannot be inside of someone else.

So if I put my had inside of a someone's mouth a cease to be a person? If a man(God forbid) eats a baby, is the baby no longer a person?

A person has to be a separate, individual entity not reliant on the body of another or existing in a parasitic manner.

[Keronians]

To be fair, those people are unlikely to have access to abortion either, and are sure as hell going to be heavily stigmatised for it.

There are entire websites dedicated to giving women in need of funds the ability to pay for their abortion, thousands of volunteers ready to assist women in whatever way they can, etc.

... And the same can be said of contraceptives. Hell, even more can be said for contraceptives.

[Siaos]

So if I put my had inside of a someone's mouth a cease to be a person? If a man(God forbid) eats a baby, is the baby no longer a person?

A person has to be a separate, individual entity not reliant on the body of another or existing in a parasitic manner.

So the Siamese twins were not individual people but rather one person? After all, their systems were actually connected; when one died, the other did too.

[North Yakistan]

have you listened to anything i have said? you are just another stereotypical liberal assuming im a stereotypical republican.

1. I do not want to make abortion illegal
2. I have no problem with abortion in the case of Rape, Incest, Birth Defects, Danger to the mother or totaly inability of the child to survive after birth. However if its just out of convenience i consider that murder

Are rape babies worth less than other babies?

No, but I am not christian and do not agree with the Christian point of view which fuels the Pro-Choice movement, in my religion infanticide is acceptable if there is no chance of the child surviving, IE its a time of famine.

[Furious Grandmothers]

So does a tumor, sans the brain and cardiovascular system. Don't tell me these two organs are the criteria for classifying something as a person now.

No, a tumor does not have a working brain and cardiovascular system. Unless its one of those tumors from the YouTube Rejected clips of course.

That's exactly what I said in the post you're quoting. Did you not read it? And are you suggesting exactly what I told you not to tell me?

[Cu Math]

Ah yes, none of it is your responsibility. It's all her fault.

Additionally, not everyone has received proper sex education, birth control is not free (and is heavily stigmatized in many communities) and there are men who pressure their significant others into having sex without condoms. Most unwanted pregnancies happen to women who are young (therefore easily influenced and manipulated), poor and uneducated.

1. You libs need to quit putting words in my mouth, that seems to be the only way most of you can argue. It is BOTH peoples fault and thats why i support stronger child support laws.

2. There are places where you can get condoms for free.

Wait. How the hell are you a libertarian? You support no government welfare...so where the hell are the free condoms coming from? Monsanto's Condomzu Vine isn't fully grown yet.

[Dakini]

2hard4me, Dak... You mean that there are people out there without access to contraceptives or knowledge on how to use them?! Holy cow! I thought poor people were a myth!!!

To be fair, those people are unlikely to have access to abortion either, and are sure as hell going to be heavily stigmatised for it.

...so that means we should make it harder for them?

Also, I mean, in a proper country, abortions are covered just as the rest of health care is... so even the poorest women can access it.

[Keronians]

So if I put my had inside of a someone's mouth a cease to be a person? If a man(God forbid) eats a baby, is the baby no longer a person?

A person has to be a separate, individual entity not reliant on the body of another or existing in a parasitic manner.

A fetus is more of a symbiote than it is a parasite.

In any way, by this logic, the underdeveloped of two Siamese twins is not a person.

[Siaos]

No, a tumor does not have a working brain and cardiovascular system. Unless its one of those tumors from the YouTube Rejected clips of course.

That's exactly what I said in the post you're quoting. Did you not read it? And are you suggesting exactly what I told you not to tell me?

You said the tumor has a working brain and cardiovascular system, I told you you were wrong.

[North Yakistan]

1. You libs need to quit putting words in my mouth, that seems to be the only way most of you can argue. It is BOTH peoples fault and thats why i support stronger child support laws.

2. There are places where you can get condoms for free.

Wait. How the hell are you a libertarian? You support no government welfare...so where the hell are the free condoms coming from? Monsanto's Condomzu Vine isn't fully grown yet.

Those condoms are provided by clincis and support groups and the like, i could get free condoms like 3 blocks from here right now

[Frisivisia]

Are rape babies worth less than other babies?

No, but I am not christian and do not agree with the Christian point of view which fuels the Pro-Choice movement, in my religion infanticide is acceptable if there is no chance of the child surviving, IE its a time of famine.

The Pro-Choice argument is, or at least can be, entirely secular.

Now answer my question, are rape babies worth less than regular ones?

[Torcularis Septentrionalis]

There are entire websites dedicated to giving women in need of funds the ability to pay for their abortion, thousands of volunteers ready to assist women in whatever way they can, etc.

... And the same can be said of contraceptives. Hell, even more can be said for contraceptives.

I haven't seen a single website that offers to pay for the pill, the patch, the IUD, the Nuvaring, the depo shot, the subdermal implant, diaphragm, cap, or sterilization. and even if they did, are you aware that some of these methods are sometimes tough to manage, remember, or preform 100% properly 100% of the time?

[Ashmoria]

There are entire websites dedicated to giving women in need of funds the ability to pay for their abortion, thousands of volunteers ready to assist women in whatever way they can, etc.

... And the same can be said of contraceptives. Hell, even more can be said for contraceptives.

really the rate of unintended pregnancies should drop because of "free" contraceptive with obamacare. more in states that take the Medicaid expansion than those that don't but in the end all states will take the expansion.


...

of course libertarians are against obamacare so that's just another way they would limit women's lives.

[Keronians]

1. You libs need to quit putting words in my mouth, that seems to be the only way most of you can argue. It is BOTH peoples fault and thats why i support stronger child support laws.

2. There are places where you can get condoms for free.

Wait. How the hell are you a libertarian? You support no government welfare...so where the hell are the free condoms coming from? Monsanto's Condomzu Vine isn't fully grown yet.

... What? Have you heard of charities and women's organisations?

[North Yakistan]

No, but I am not christian and do not agree with the Christian point of view which fuels the Pro-Choice movement, in my religion infanticide is acceptable if there is no chance of the child surviving, IE its a time of famine.

The Pro-Choice argument is, or at least can be, entirely secular.

Now answer my question, are rape babies worth less than regular ones?

I already said no