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Fake geek girls-male insecurity or icky fandom ruiners?

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Dakini
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Postby Dakini » Mon Sep 09, 2013 12:24 pm

I agree on the different kind of geek thing. My other half is definitely a computer geek, the kind of geek who plays Magic and the kind of geek who has written long screeds about all the ways LoTR is better in book form than in movie form.

However, he's barely seen Star Trek (he's seen the recent movies and bits of TOS) and isn't really into sci-fi (or fantasy other than LoTR) in general. He also doesn't seem to care about comics or anything like that (I'll send him webcomics and he only likes some of them). And he's not into anime or manga despite living in Japan.

Personally, I think of myself as more of a nerd than a geek since there's only one thing I dig into really deeply (astronomy), but I do it in a way that's different from the typical geeky way of doing it (e.g. memorizing all the Apollo astronauts, ever) and do my own thing (e.g. spectral analysis of dying stars). However, I have a broad variety of things that I find interesting and I enjoy learning a little bit about everything. I also dabble in a lot of hobbies and even when the hobbies themselves aren't necessarily nerdy (e.g. knitting) I make them nerdy (e.g. knitting a pi scarf).

So yeah, I'd get schooled if someone was all about a particular comic book that I haven't read, though I've probably read comics they haven't (since I recognize that superhero comics are just one genre of comic) and I'm terrible at episode number and titles for Star Trek episodes, but I can usually figure out the plot for the rest of the episode based on a small snippet about the plot (at least for TNG).

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Cannot think of a name
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Postby Cannot think of a name » Mon Sep 09, 2013 12:32 pm

Nailed to the Perch wrote:I mean, I think the entire phenomenon of "geekier than thou" challenges is stupid and ought to be yanked out of geek culture by the roots,

I'm not going to dispute that women in the culture get a raw deal because I've met these fuckers and frankly it stands to reason (I haven't been at a traditional geek gathering since geek became mainstream, not because I'm a hipster and you all ruined it for me, but because I don't have the money or friends to go with) that they've transferred their nastiness in concordance with their behavior beforehand.

However, I think this idea of people coming in and re-arranging the furniture can cause a bit of a legitimate complaint to fester under the completely shit way of dealing with it. That has been part of 'the scene' since the beginning, I mean not just an aspect, but a defining point. Before Chris Hardwick and his lot when there was a show about geeks (I can't remember the name of the cartoon, I really wish I could...) you demonstrated they were geeks by having them do a trivia throwdown to determine who would get the Bobba Fett 12" figure.

One of the earliest attempts to capitalize on geek chic was a show based solely on the geek trivia throwdown called Beat the Geeks.

Fandom is fandom. It's not a scene or an aesthetic. It's not a subculture. It's you enjoying shit. But geek, from back when the label was mostly applied by bullies and dickwads, that's something a little different and I can see in someway being upset by all the pretty Chris Hardwicks moving in and being accepted by society at large and re-arranging all their furniture and scolding them about how they should act in their own scene when they've been there the entire time and will be there when the public eye moves off them.

And this is not to say that Chris Hardwick isn't a geek or genuine fan, or that the people who are able to 'pass' or just think that geeks should be nicer people aren't really fucking into the shit they're into. I'm just trying to put a little context into the conflict, I guess.

I don't even know why, as I said I never self-identified as a geek and was always squeed out by people who did. I don't think liking shit makes me part of something, it just means I like shit. I don't know that I really need a comradary with people who like Ghost Rider.
"...I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in the stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Council-er or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I can't agree with your methods of direct action;" who paternalistically feels he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by the myth of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait until a "more convenient season." -MLK Jr.

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Cannot think of a name
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Postby Cannot think of a name » Mon Sep 09, 2013 12:39 pm

Dakini wrote:I agree on the different kind of geek thing. My other half is definitely a computer geek, the kind of geek who plays Magic and the kind of geek who has written long screeds about all the ways LoTR is better in book form than in movie form.

However, he's barely seen Star Trek (he's seen the recent movies and bits of TOS) and isn't really into sci-fi (or fantasy other than LoTR) in general. He also doesn't seem to care about comics or anything like that (I'll send him webcomics and he only likes some of them). And he's not into anime or manga despite living in Japan.

Personally, I think of myself as more of a nerd than a geek since there's only one thing I dig into really deeply (astronomy), but I do it in a way that's different from the typical geeky way of doing it (e.g. memorizing all the Apollo astronauts, ever) and do my own thing (e.g. spectral analysis of dying stars). However, I have a broad variety of things that I find interesting and I enjoy learning a little bit about everything. I also dabble in a lot of hobbies and even when the hobbies themselves aren't necessarily nerdy (e.g. knitting) I make them nerdy (e.g. knitting a pi scarf).

So yeah, I'd get schooled if someone was all about a particular comic book that I haven't read, though I've probably read comics they haven't (since I recognize that superhero comics are just one genre of comic) and I'm terrible at episode number and titles for Star Trek episodes, but I can usually figure out the plot for the rest of the episode based on a small snippet about the plot (at least for TNG).

Well, this sort of touches on another issue that's new in the world of Geek Chic. Because the Renaissance Geek is a product of the Geek Chic world, specialization has always existed. It existed to the point of tribalism. Star Wars vs. Star Trek geeks, even down to DC vs. Marvel geeks. Video game geeks weren't really 'part of the herd' because it was too easy to walk away or whatever, then there was the division between 'casual gamers' and people who still ran Ultima and shit. Hell, that distinction still exists as video games become something you can do on your phone.

Before 'geek chic' you were never 'a geek', you were a _____ geek. This is part of the rearranged furniture that there is a blanket term 'geek' that's all that's needed.
"...I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in the stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Council-er or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I can't agree with your methods of direct action;" who paternalistically feels he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by the myth of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait until a "more convenient season." -MLK Jr.

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God Kefka
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Postby God Kefka » Mon Sep 09, 2013 8:53 pm

can someone please give working definitions about what constitutes a "geek'' and what constitutes a "nerd''? I am confused...
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Nailed to the Perch
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Postby Nailed to the Perch » Mon Sep 09, 2013 8:56 pm

God Kefka wrote:can someone please give working definitions about what constitutes a "geek'' and what constitutes a "nerd''? I am confused...


I don't think there's really one agreed-upon definition. I'd say the most common usage is that a nerd is someone who's particularly interested in/good at academic pursuits of some sort, and a geek is someone who's passionate about a particular hobby, most commonly things like sci-fi/fantasy media, gaming, or comics.
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God Kefka
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Postby God Kefka » Mon Sep 09, 2013 9:08 pm

Nailed to the Perch wrote:
God Kefka wrote:can someone please give working definitions about what constitutes a "geek'' and what constitutes a "nerd''? I am confused...


I don't think there's really one agreed-upon definition. I'd say the most common usage is that a nerd is someone who's particularly interested in/good at academic pursuits of some sort, and a geek is someone who's passionate about a particular hobby, most commonly things like sci-fi/fantasy media, gaming, or comics.


Ah I see...

Ok then I guess I am sort of both... =)
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Unidox
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Postby Unidox » Mon Sep 09, 2013 10:13 pm

Red Team wrote:This is an odd topic. I can't say I've ever really met one.

Also, I'm not sure if there are many "geeks" around if they have to read textbooks for fun.

Umm... I read my high school Biology textbook for fun.
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Saiwania
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Postby Saiwania » Mon Sep 09, 2013 10:16 pm

I don't really care if someone is a geek or not, but why pretend to be something you aren't unless you are trying too hard to impress someone?
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Nazis in Space
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Postby Nazis in Space » Mon Sep 09, 2013 10:19 pm

Sources on this

  • occuring
  • on a significant scale
I can't say this was a thing in, well... Anything I was ever involved with, whether weeabooism or chemistry. The one instance that may come close was one female trying to become popular (tm) in the speedrunning community by way of being really terrible at it and compensating with 'Hey, look! I'm a girl!', and promptly getting ridiculed for it. Noticeably, this didn't happen with actually decent female runners.

And somehow, I don't think getting ridiculed for 'Hey, look! I'm a girl! Ignore everything else about me because I'm a girllllllll!' attitudes suggests male insecurity, yet alone misogyny.

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Hexhamshire
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Postby Hexhamshire » Tue Sep 10, 2013 5:43 pm

Quotes have been edited...
Nailed to the Perch wrote:I mean, I think the entire phenomenon of "geekier than thou" challenges is stupid and ought to be yanked out of geek culture by the roots, but there really is a difference between the sort of stupid challenges male geeks get and the sort of ludicrously stupid challenges female geeks get.


Absolutely agree, isn't it better to educate than ridicule. I think the problem is that "Geekery" has been seen as a largely male thing, girls even showing an interest have been rare...

Reploid Productions wrote:Frankly, I'm of the opinion that fandom should be fun...
It's not like being geeky is (or should be) some sort of exclusive fanclub; I've got no business telling somebody who's not as into Gundam as I am that they aren't really a Gundam fan (or an anime geek) because they don't know how many people died in the first week of UC Gundam's One Year War. Likewise, nobody has any business claiming I'm not "a geek" because I don't read comics- being geeky is about being into something, excited about it, and unashamed of expressing that enthusiasm. You can be geeky about anything- comics, games, books, sports, stamp collecting, a TV series, a particular band or style of music.... etc etc.


Again, absolutely agree, it's a hobby, it's about enjoying yourself and if "geek throwdowns" and making people feel excluded or inferior are what you enjoy, then you're using your geekdom as an excuse...

Cannot think of a name wrote:
Nailed to the Perch wrote:I'm not going to dispute that women in the culture get a raw deal because I've met these fuckers and frankly it stands to reason (I haven't been at a traditional geek gathering since geek became mainstream, not because I'm a hipster and you all ruined it for me, but because I don't have the money or friends to go with) that they've transferred their nastiness in concordance with their behavior beforehand.

However, I think this idea of people coming in and re-arranging the furniture can cause a bit of a legitimate complaint to fester under the completely shit way of dealing with it. That has been part of 'the scene' since the beginning, I mean not just an aspect, but a defining point. Before Chris Hardwick and his lot when there was a show about geeks (I can't remember the name of the cartoon, I really wish I could...) you demonstrated they were geeks by having them do a trivia throwdown to determine who would get the Bobba Fett 12" figure.


As for the Mainstreaming Of Geek CultureTM I often wonder if this would have happened 20 years earlier if only America had their own verison of Knightmare back in the day, this show was heavily fantasy based, massively dependent on special effects, innovative and looks like great fun, I remember watching this programme back when I were a lad and thinking it was cool and I by far wasn't the only one, it was a very popular and fondly remembered programme (hence the reruns on Challenge TV today) and yes they had teams of girls on there too! And inb4 "lol i bet teh girls never won lol" we had entire seasons where nobody beat the dungeon.

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United Dependencies
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Postby United Dependencies » Tue Sep 10, 2013 6:09 pm

Nailed to the Perch wrote:
Ifreann wrote:I'm sure you only play games because you're trying to seduce true geek boys and...I dunno, steal their golden jizz or something.


Ah, that must be it. Does that mean I have a magical unicorn pussy? (On a related note, do magical unicorn pussies menstruate rainbows? Because it seems like they should.)

:rofl:

what? what is this?
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Maybe dragons took their jobs. Maybe unicorns only hid their jobs because unicorns are dicks. Maybe 'jobs' is only an illusion created by a drug addled infant pachyderm. Fuck dude, if we're in 'maybe' land, don't hold back.

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Cannot think of a name
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Postby Cannot think of a name » Tue Sep 10, 2013 6:45 pm

Hexhamshire wrote:
As for the Mainstreaming Of Geek CultureTM I often wonder if this would have happened 20 years earlier if only America had their own verison of Knightmare back in the day, this show was heavily fantasy based, massively dependent on special effects, innovative and looks like great fun, I remember watching this programme back when I were a lad and thinking it was cool and I by far wasn't the only one, it was a very popular and fondly remembered programme (hence the reruns on Challenge TV today) and yes they had teams of girls on there too! And inb4 "lol i bet teh girls never won lol" we had entire seasons where nobody beat the dungeon.

Well, we tend to think of things having just happened, but they really didn't. As far back as the 80s nerd culture had started becoming exploited by the mainstream, manifesting largely in the exploitative Revenge of the Nerds (which really isn't that different than The Big Bang Theory in that the laughs are derived largely at the expense of the protagonists rather than from their narrative victories). Then, when Tim Burton made comic book movies profitable, it wasn't long before people noticed that there were gold in them der hills.

This generation of 'cool' geeks are ones who grew up in that awkward transitional phase.
"...I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in the stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Council-er or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I can't agree with your methods of direct action;" who paternalistically feels he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by the myth of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait until a "more convenient season." -MLK Jr.

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Fartsniffage
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Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Fartsniffage » Thu Sep 12, 2013 8:18 am


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