The Conderate Flag

[Bavin]

Not all of them do...Do the names Bill Clinton, Jimmy Carter, Huey Long, James Carville and Maurepas mean anything to you?

They are all very liberal Southerners...

Fixed

Well played sir, well played indeed. Don't forget that Left 4 Dead 2 is in the South, that must be good for something.

[Redslavia]

Not all of them do...Do the names Bill Clinton, Jimmy Carter, Huey Long, James Carville and Maurepas mean anything to you?

They are all very liberal Southerners...

Fixed

Well played sir, well played indeed. Don't forget that Left 4 Dead 2 is in the South, that must be good for something.

I call Ellis.

[Maurepas]

It was peaceful all right. Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the South fire the first shots at Fort Sumter?

Yes, but, the Fort was occupied by Federal Troops...

[Bavin]

Not all of them do...Do the names Bill Clinton, Jimmy Carter, Huey Long, James Carville and Maurepas mean anything to you?

They are all very liberal Southerners...

Fixed

Well played sir, well played indeed. Don't forget that Left 4 Dead 2 is in the South, that must be good for something.

I call Ellis.

Good. Dibs on Nick.

[F1-Insanity]

I made this post in the other thread about why the states' rights arguments used by the south and its apologists are categorically false.

viewtopic.php?p=1040054#p1040054

The most important bit:

The opinion of Henry Brooks Adams, that I completely share:

“Between the slave power and states' rights there was no necessary connection. The slave power, when in control, was a centralizing influence, and all the most considerable encroachments on states' rights were its acts. The acquisition and admission of Louisiana; the Embargo; the War of 1812; the annexation of Texas "by joint resolution" [rather than treaty]; the war with Mexico, declared by the mere announcement of President Polk; the Fugitive Slave Law; the Dred Scott decision — all triumphs of the slave power — did far more than either tariffs or internal improvements, which in their origin were also southern measures, to destroy the very memory of states' rights as they existed in 1789.

[Euro-Trash]

Many people say that the Confederate flag stands for hate and that the KKK and the Nazis are part of the South. But those are all LIES. Lies that gave the South a bad reputation. Lies that that killed people. Im just telling the world of Nation States that The confederate flag doesnt stand for hate. IT'S HERITAGE NOT HATE!!!!!!!!!

This reminds me of the Swastika, perverted by the Nazi Germany created under the Third Reich. The Swastika was a Wholesome Symbol. It was an Asian Symbol of Piece! However, Hitler and the Third Reich used as their new nation's flag and made it the 'face' of the Holocaust. The Southern Flag is much the same way. It was Made as a Symbol for Inbreed Hicks and Rednecks, who, are, a stereotype in themselves. And what Inbreed Hicks and Rednecks symbolize is Racism, Hate, and Poor Ethics. Make sense? Also, please comment. Tell me if I'm right.

[Neu California]

-sigh-

I think conservatism (okay, the southern states) in America needs to asplode. Seriously. I'm sick of it. And I don't even live there. Everything people hate about America comes from there - the militaristic attitude and foreign policy, the stupidity of citizens, the greed, the douchebaggery, the obnoxious individualism, and of couse...Bush. I said it. And don't tell me you didn't want to say it, too.

And don't forget who were the last ones to abolish slavery.

Lincoln only freed the slaves because he wanted them to revolt and join the northern military force to topple the south.

I've NEVER heard of this before. Do you have a source?

And the war was not about slavery, it was about state government rights and taxation.

What state government rights? I asked this earlier in the thread and didn't get a response.

[F1-Insanity]

It was peaceful all right. Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the South fire the first shots at Fort Sumter?

Yes, but, the Fort was occupied by Federal Troops...

The fort was not occupied in the sense of 'taken from South Carolina', the fort was federal property to begin with. The only application of occupied here is that those union troops were in the fort.

[Hebalobia]

Many people say that the Confederate flag stands for hate and that the KKK and the Nazis are part of the South. But those are all LIES. Lies that gave the South a bad reputation. Lies that that killed people. Im just telling the world of Nation States that The confederate flag doesnt stand for hate. IT'S HERITAGE NOT HATE!!!!!!!!!

Yeah, a Heritage of slavery, racism, midnight lynchings, segregation, hate and the KKK.

Some symbols are always going to rile people. Live with it.

[Bavin]

It was peaceful all right. Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the South fire the first shots at Fort Sumter?

Yes, but, the Fort was occupied by Federal Troops...

That is correct. At the time, weren't they trying to negotiate over the Federal Property in the South? Wasn't Lincoln just trying to supply the Fort with food?

[Maurepas]

Not all of them do...Do the names Bill Clinton, Jimmy Carter, Huey Long, James Carville and Maurepas mean anything to you?

They are all very liberal Southerners...

Fixed

Well played sir, well played indeed. Don't forget that Left 4 Dead 2 is in the South, that must be good for something.

Really? I havent played L4D2 yet, only 1, maybe I'll have to pick it up....

[Zeppy]

EDITED
Wrong history.

[Euro-Trash]

Not all of them do...Do the names Bill Clinton, Jimmy Carter, Huey Long, James Carville and Maurepas mean anything to you?

They are all very liberal Southerners...

Fixed

Well played sir, well played indeed. Don't forget that Left 4 Dead 2 is in the South, that must be good for something.

Really? I havent played L4D2 yet, only 1, maybe I'll have to pick it up....

It's Epic. The face that they made such a great game in 364 Days is Awe Inspiring! Eat that Sims!

[Bavin]

Not all of them do...Do the names Bill Clinton, Jimmy Carter, Huey Long, James Carville and Maurepas mean anything to you?

They are all very liberal Southerners...

Fixed

Well played sir, well played indeed. Don't forget that Left 4 Dead 2 is in the South, that must be good for something.

Really? I havent played L4D2 yet, only 1, maybe I'll have to pick it up....

Buy it NAO!

[Illithar]

This has nothing to do with anything, but I was on my high school debate team and during one of the practice debates we discussed this very issue.

My opponent made the claim that the Confederate flag pre-dated the constitution and therefore was not protected by the first amendment (free speech).

I won.

[Bavin]

-sigh-

I think conservatism (okay, the southern states) in America needs to asplode. Seriously. I'm sick of it. And I don't even live there. Everything people hate about America comes from there - the militaristic attitude and foreign policy, the stupidity of citizens, the greed, the douchebaggery, the obnoxious individualism, and of couse...Bush. I said it. And don't tell me you didn't want to say it, too.

And don't forget who were the last ones to abolish slavery.

Lincoln only freed the slaves because he wanted them to revolt and join the northern military force to topple the south.

I've NEVER heard of this before. Do you have a source?

And the war was not about slavery, it was about state government rights and taxation.

What state government rights? I asked this earlier in the thread and didn't get a response.

Ya see, I thought Lincoln freed the slaves (in the south) to weaken them economically, while it is true that some African Americans joined Union Army units, I doubt that that was Lincoln's original intent.

[F1-Insanity]

Many people say that the Confederate flag stands for hate and that the KKK and the Nazis are part of the South. But those are all LIES. Lies that gave the South a bad reputation. Lies that that killed people. Im just telling the world of Nation States that The confederate flag doesnt stand for hate. IT'S HERITAGE NOT HATE!!!!!!!!!

This reminds me of the Swastika, perverted by the Nazi Germany created under the Third Reich. The Swastika was a Wholesome Symbol. It was an Asian Symbol of Piece! However, Hitler and the Third Reich used as their new nation's flag and made it the 'face' of the Holocaust. The Southern Flag is much the same way. It was Made as a Symbol for Inbreed Hicks and Rednecks, who, are, a stereotype in themselves. And what Inbreed Hicks and Rednecks symbolize is Racism, Hate, and Poor Ethics. Make sense?

The Finnish also had the Swastika as their machine badge. How weird must it have been when Germany invaded and fought the FAF?

Finland was an ally of Germany. Not an ideological ally, but a practical ally nonetheless.

[Buffett and Colbert]

This has nothing to do with anything, but I was on my high school debate team and during one of the practice debates we discussed this very issue.

My opponent made the claim that the Confederate flag pre-dated the constitution and therefore was not protected by the first amendment (free speech).

I won.

You beat a moron. Amazing

Would you like a medal?

[Maurepas]

It was peaceful all right. Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the South fire the first shots at Fort Sumter?

Yes, but, the Fort was occupied by Federal Troops...

That is correct. At the time, weren't they trying to negotiate over the Federal Property in the South? Wasn't Lincoln just trying to supply the Fort with food?

Well, yes and no, Lincoln had begun raising troops already by that point(Robert E. Lee had in fact been asked to lead the army being raised, ironically enough)and there were no real negotiations on what to do with Federal Property, the States considered all land within its boundaries to be its own, just as the Federal Government considered all land to be its...

Now, yes, Lincoln was just resupplying the fort with food, but, when an Army's being raised to the north of you, thats not always obvious...to use a later example, see the Lusitania...

[Illithar]

This has nothing to do with anything, but I was on my high school debate team and during one of the practice debates we discussed this very issue.

My opponent made the claim that the Confederate flag pre-dated the constitution and therefore was not protected by the first amendment (free speech).

I won.

You beat a moron. Amazing

Would you like a medal?

No, I just thought everybody could use a lulz. It is funny.

[Bavin]

This has nothing to do with anything, but I was on my high school debate team and during one of the practice debates we discussed this very issue.

My opponent made the claim that the Confederate flag pre-dated the constitution and therefore was not protected by the first amendment (free speech).

I won.

You beat a moron. Amazing

Would you like a medal?

Morons tend to be rather stubborn, and can actually be harder to best in an argument (although not an organized debate).

[Bavin]

It was peaceful all right. Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the South fire the first shots at Fort Sumter?

Yes, but, the Fort was occupied by Federal Troops...

That is correct. At the time, weren't they trying to negotiate over the Federal Property in the South? Wasn't Lincoln just trying to supply the Fort with food?

Well, yes and no, Lincoln had begun raising troops already by that point(Robert E. Lee had in fact been asked to lead the army being raised, ironically enough)and there were no real negotiations on what to do with Federal Property, the States considered all land within its boundaries to be its own, just as the Federal Government considered all land to be its...

Now, yes, Lincoln was just resupplying the fort with food, but, when an Army's being raised to the north of you, thats not always obvious...to use a later example, see the Lusitania...

So its no one's fault, and this whole argument was rather pointless?

[Maurepas]

It was peaceful all right. Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't the South fire the first shots at Fort Sumter?

Yes, but, the Fort was occupied by Federal Troops...

That is correct. At the time, weren't they trying to negotiate over the Federal Property in the South? Wasn't Lincoln just trying to supply the Fort with food?

Well, yes and no, Lincoln had begun raising troops already by that point(Robert E. Lee had in fact been asked to lead the army being raised, ironically enough)and there were no real negotiations on what to do with Federal Property, the States considered all land within its boundaries to be its own, just as the Federal Government considered all land to be its...

Now, yes, Lincoln was just resupplying the fort with food, but, when an Army's being raised to the north of you, thats not always obvious...to use a later example, see the Lusitania...

So its no one's fault, and this whole argument was rather pointless?

Yes,

[Kynnytopia]

Now I'm gonna say my mind.

The Confederate Flag stands for the South.

The Civil War was not about slavery, nor was it about blacks or whites.

It was about a group of people with the political mindset that said State government, and the People, should run America.

The North wanted to push Federal control - something we as Americans get outraged about till this day.

Now I'm not saying I agree with the South, and I also don't agree with the North.

America fought itself over how it was run, not over slavery.

Although the North did a crack job of destroying the Southern economy without a way out.

The Confederate Flag does NOT stand for slavery. Nor does it really stand for heritage. It stands for a long forgotten political mindset - forgotten because we adopted it a few presidents after Lincoln.

The end.

[F1-Insanity]

Ya see, I thought Lincoln freed the slaves (in the south) to weaken them economically, while it is true that some African Americans joined Union Army units, I doubt that that was Lincoln's original intent.

Lincoln issued the emancipation proclamation to keep Britain from recognizing Southern independence, and thus also to keep France from doing it (France had said they'd recognize the South's independence if Britain did it too).

Initially, Lincoln had ordered that captured slaves be returned to the south. Lincoln never considered that the southern states were a separate nation and considered them to be Union states in rebellion against the Union. Lincoln even fired two commanders (Frémont and Hunter) and relieved another (Butler) who had unilaterally emancipated slaves within the areas their armies controlled.

In mid-1862 the republicans in Congress voted to forbid returning slaves (I believe the formal phrase was: contraband of war). This is also the time that Lincoln got more and more signals from fellow politicians and from army leaders that it was no longer possible to wage the war without emancipation, that the union could not be restored if slavery was not destroyed. What finally made Lincolns mind up is a speech made by the British prime minister, who more or less suggested a cessation of hostilities and a peace conference, after that Lincoln knew emancipation was necessary. First, to keep Britain from recognizing the Confederacy, and second to make sure that the restored union would not suffer from the slavery-problem anymore, as slavery had increasingly become the #1 issue for the rebellion against the Union.