6 Weeks Left Congress

[Distruzio]

They'll raise the ceiling. I'd rather they let shit hit the fan but... *meh*

Why would you want that?

They'll raise the ceiling. I'd rather they let shit hit the fan but... *meh*

Why?

If the debt ceiling isn't raised, all those government employees (And there's quite a few of them) won't get a paycheck, right?

That seems pretty bad for a recovering economy.

It would be. Catastrophic even. But... it'd force the public to become mindful of who the hell they put into office for a while, wouldn't it?

[Divair]

Why?

If the debt ceiling isn't raised, all those government employees (And there's quite a few of them) won't get a paycheck, right?

That seems pretty bad for a recovering economy.

It would be. Catastrophic even. But... it'd force the public to become mindful of who the hell they put into office for a while, wouldn't it?

No.

[Distruzio]

It would be. Catastrophic even. But... it'd force the public to become mindful of who the hell they put into office for a while, wouldn't it?

No.

*shrug*

Probably correct about that. Perhaps I've too much faith in the American public.

[Blasveck]

Why?

If the debt ceiling isn't raised, all those government employees (And there's quite a few of them) won't get a paycheck, right?

That seems pretty bad for a recovering economy.

It would be. Catastrophic even. But... it'd force the public to become mindful of who the hell they put into office for a while, wouldn't it?

Of course.

You know my political leanings Dis.

Granted, I doubt anybody would learn anything. I tend to take an apathetic view of humanity concerning politics, economics, the debt ceiling, etc.

[Olivaero]

Why would you want that?

Why?

If the debt ceiling isn't raised, all those government employees (And there's quite a few of them) won't get a paycheck, right?

That seems pretty bad for a recovering economy.

It would be. Catastrophic even. But... it'd force the public to become mindful of who the hell they put into office for a while, wouldn't it?

I think you overestimate the citizens of the US. Half of them would blame the republicans the other half would blame the democrats. And they'd still vote the same way.

[Divair]

No.

*shrug*

Probably correct about that. Perhaps I've too much faith in the American public.

It's ok. We've all been there.
*pats back*

[Olivaero]

Why would you want that?

Why?

If the debt ceiling isn't raised, all those government employees (And there's quite a few of them) won't get a paycheck, right?

That seems pretty bad for a recovering economy.

It would be. Catastrophic even. But... it'd force the public to become mindful of who the hell they put into office for a while, wouldn't it?

I think you overestimate the citizens of the US. Half of them would blame the republicans the other half would blame the democrats. And they'd still vote the same way.

[Blasveck]

It would be. Catastrophic even. But... it'd force the public to become mindful of who the hell they put into office for a while, wouldn't it?

I think you overestimate the citizens of the US. Half of them would blame the republicans the other half would blame the democrats. And they'd still vote the same way.

I feel that quote about "anti-intellectualism" fits perfectly here.

[Greed and Death]

Let the government run out of money, but compromise and raise the debt ceiling if the personal mandate enforcement is defunded.

[Distruzio]

It would be. Catastrophic even. But... it'd force the public to become mindful of who the hell they put into office for a while, wouldn't it?

Of course.

You know my political leanings Dis.

Granted, I doubt anybody would learn anything. I tend to take an apathetic view of humanity concerning politics, economics, the debt ceiling, etc.

Similar disposition here although mine tends towards cynicism. I just want a shock to, perhaps, rattle the cage a bit. Then again, I'm not one of those bleeding hearts who believes everything will magically work better if partisans bickering is set aside and we all just get along. Adversity garners strength. If democracy's greatest attribute is the opportunity for prosperity through the adversity endemic to it, then we should, I think, hope for a better facilitation of that adversity. Not raising the debt ceiling may do just that.

[Distruzio]

*shrug*

Probably correct about that. Perhaps I've too much faith in the American public.

It's ok. We've all been there.
*pats back*

Thanks, brother.

I think you overestimate the citizens of the US. Half of them would blame the republicans the other half would blame the democrats. And they'd still vote the same way.

*le sigh*

[Trotskylvania]

Source all that please.

And please, don't forget about the two longest depressions in American history during that time period as well.

Dont forget about the 11 reccesions since 1913, including the Great Depression idioto.

See, here's the thing. With the exception of the Great Depression, where the Fed Reserve acted stupidly and caused a deflationary spiral (i.e., the exact same things you want our monetary policy to do), those recessions have been mild. Nearly all of the recessions prior to the existence of the Federal Reserve were depressions, and quite severe ones.

[Blasveck]

Of course.

You know my political leanings Dis.

Granted, I doubt anybody would learn anything. I tend to take an apathetic view of humanity concerning politics, economics, the debt ceiling, etc.

Similar disposition here although mine tends towards cynicism. I just want a shock to, perhaps, rattle the cage a bit. Then again, I'm not one of those bleeding hearts who believes everything will magically work better if partisans bickering is set aside and we all just get along. Adversity garners strength. If democracy's greatest attribute is the opportunity for prosperity through the adversity endemic to it, then we should, I think, hope for a better facilitation of that adversity. Not raising the debt ceiling may do just that.

I doubt it.
I feel most would simply not care. If the economy turns to shambles after a decent recovery over the months, I feel most would simply give up, move, or not care.

Such is the way of modern society. We have iPhones, Luxury, and all the food we could want in America.

Brave New World-esque, If you will.

Not in the dystopic sense, but in the apathetic sense.

[Trotskylvania]

In 6 weeks (this is a rough number) from today, the US Government will be down to anything from 0$ to 50 billion (witch would last for less then a single day)

Congress seems to have few options

1. Let the government run out of money.

2. Raise debt ceiling (Nice way to say, we will deal with this later, when the problem is worse.)

3. There is no option 3 really, I suppose if worse came to worse the government could just start selling land,old military hardware,gold (assuming the gold is still there.)




So, what do you guys think the government should do?


Personnally, I think we need to end it and restart it.

The US government isn't a fucking computer you know, you can't turn it off and turn it back on again.

Usually when that happens we call it a revolution.

[Distruzio]

Dont forget about the 11 reccesions since 1913, including the Great Depression idioto.

See, here's the thing. With the exception of the Great Depression, where the Fed Reserve acted stupidly and caused a deflationary spiral (i.e., the exact same things you want our monetary policy to do), those recessions have been mild. Nearly all of the recessions prior to the existence of the Federal Reserve were depressions, and quite severe ones.

What, would you say, the difference is between the two?

[Olivaero]

I think you overestimate the citizens of the US. Half of them would blame the republicans the other half would blame the democrats. And they'd still vote the same way.

I feel that quote about "anti-intellectualism" fits perfectly here.

Hm I think Anti-Intellectualism plays a part but the Media also plays a massive part it takes the anti-intellectualism and capitalizes on it. Hence why we have a shit ton of people who believe that the national debt is just like a household one. Don't get me wrong I don't think a large national debt is a good thing but the prevalence of using verbatim the arguments repeated by talking heads or not even listening to any one and just making up conclusions from the large numbers is ridiculous.

[Nigerian Kenya]

Obviously, we can't default on our debt, and shutting down the government isn't good either. Since we're already so close to the debt limit; we need emergency procedures. First, let's raise the debt ceiling without conditions to 17 trillion (an increase of about $300 billion) as a quick fix to buy time. We should also pass a "status quo" continuing resolution that lasts until the end of January or so. Next, we need to design a plan to balance the budget in 15 years, through a combination of closing tax loopholes (without lowering rates), raising the retirement age, and cutting defense spending to a level more comparable to what the rest of the world spends. The 15 year balance plan would also include a second increase in the debt ceiling, to a level of $20 trillion.

[Trotskylvania]

See, here's the thing. With the exception of the Great Depression, where the Fed Reserve acted stupidly and caused a deflationary spiral (i.e., the exact same things you want our monetary policy to do), those recessions have been mild. Nearly all of the recessions prior to the existence of the Federal Reserve were depressions, and quite severe ones.

What, would you say, the difference is between the two?

The role that monetary policy plays in macroeconomic events.

Without a central banking institution, it is impossible to guarantee price stability. So, as a result, prior to the creation of the Federal Reserve there were wild swings between inflation and deflation, and this ruined business confidence.

[Distruzio]

What, would you say, the difference is between the two?

The role that monetary policy plays in macroeconomic events.

Without a central banking institution, it is impossible to guarantee price stability. So, as a result, prior to the creation of the Federal Reserve there were wild swings between inflation and deflation, and this ruined business confidence.

Yes... I'm aware of that. I'm curious what you believe the difference between recession and depression is. If price instability and a diminished business confidence is the parameter you perceive, then what is the threshold?

[Vicswampia]

And that's what happens when you mix weed with PCP, kids.

[Trotskylvania]

The role that monetary policy plays in macroeconomic events.

Without a central banking institution, it is impossible to guarantee price stability. So, as a result, prior to the creation of the Federal Reserve there were wild swings between inflation and deflation, and this ruined business confidence.

Yes... I'm aware of that. I'm curious what you believe the difference between recession and depression is. If price instability and a diminished business confidence is the parameter you perceive, then what is the threshold?

I thought you were asking what resulted in the difference. The most common definition of a depression is a recession that results in a 10 percent decline in real GDP, or last more than two years.

[Olivaero]

The US government isn't a fucking computer you know, you can't turn it off and turn it back on again.

Usually when that happens we call it a revolution.

It however wouldn't fix anything which was my point. And in fact if the new government didn't take up the responsibility for paying the old debt it would make the global economy a hell of a lot worse

[Risottia]

Sell Florida..

Everyone knows this is the right answer.

Hey! And who exactly do you plan on selling us to?

Depends on how the auction goes, I guess.

Y DO U H8 TEH FREE MARKET?

[Greed and Death]

Yes... I'm aware of that. I'm curious what you believe the difference between recession and depression is. If price instability and a diminished business confidence is the parameter you perceive, then what is the threshold?

I thought you were asking what resulted in the difference. The most common definition of a depression is a recession that results in a 10 percent decline in real GDP, or last more than two years.

The historical difference in reference to recessions or depressions is after the great depression the public became scared of the term depression, so politicians created the term recession. Historians refer to Pre 1930's depressions by their contemporary usage, because we simply lack the data to determine if they would meet the modern definition of depression (with the exception of the long depression).
Spurious Volatility in Historical Unemployment Data by Christina Romer touches on the problem of claiming that prior recessions were more severe then present and her methodology suggest they are about the same.

[Trotskylvania]

I thought you were asking what resulted in the difference. The most common definition of a depression is a recession that results in a 10 percent decline in real GDP, or last more than two years.

The historical difference in reference to recessions or depressions is after the great depression the public became scared of the term depression, so politicians created the term recession. Historians refer to Pre 1930's depressions by their contemporary usage, because we simply lack the data to determine if they would meet the modern definition of depression (with the exception of the long depression).
Spurious Volatility in Historical Unemployment Data by Christina Romer touches on the problem of claiming that prior recessions were more severe then present and her methodology suggest they are about the same.

That's ridiculous of her to focus on unemployment data. Looking at broader contexts of economic activity makes the clearly worse than most than post New Deal recessions. Unemployment is the main threat in a developed capitalist economy with stronger labor protections. But during the 1800s, far more people were self-employed, either in agriculture or in small scale artisan production or single proprietorships. Not only were employers more likely to slash wages then, but people who were self-employed but nonetheless still engaged in the system of commodity production would see declining living standards and income during a depression.