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"Under God" in the Pledge of Allegiance

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Should the phrase "under God" be removed from the Pledge of Allegiance?

Yes
429
62%
No
260
38%
 
Total votes : 689

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Aurora Novus
Senator
 
Posts: 4067
Founded: Jan 25, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Aurora Novus » Sun Sep 08, 2013 9:33 am

Abatael wrote:
Eridel wrote:"I wasn't making an argument." So, what you're saying is, you're stating your beliefs and have no evidence, proof, or reasons behind them.
As for your question, if you trace the line of communication, it comes back to you.
And yes, you did say atheism was a religion.


Yes. As I all ready said, I did that intentionally to show Aurora Novus how easy it is to make claims without any evidence or proof. Perhaps you should read my posts in their entirety.
Are you keeping tabs on what I post?
As I said all ready, I did that intentionally to show Aurora Novus how easy it is to make claims without any evidence or proof.


You did a really poor job of it. What are you even trying to prove? How ignorant someone can be?

User avatar
Vazdania
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Posts: 19448
Founded: Mar 06, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Vazdania » Sun Sep 08, 2013 9:33 am

Lost heros wrote:
Vazdania wrote:Newdow v. Rio Linda Union School

On March 11, 2010, the United States Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit upheld the words "under God" in the Pledge of Allegiance in the case of Newdow v. Rio Linda Union School District. In a 2–1 decision, the appellate court ruled that the words were of a "ceremonial and patriotic nature" and did not constitute an establishment of religion.

On November 12, 2010, in a unanimous decision the United States Court of Appeals for the First Circuit in Boston affirmed a ruling by a New Hampshire lower federal court which found that the pledge's reference to God does not violate non-pledging students' rights if student participation in the pledge is voluntary

:palm: Those courts need to reread the first amendment.
"Congress shall make no law respecting the establishment of a religion."
US flag code is a law that acknowledges Christianity and other monotheistic religions.
Is that too hard to understand?

The courts have already ruled that it doesn't constitute an establishment of religion. It is in accordance with the Constitution.
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Eridel
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 113
Founded: Jun 28, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Eridel » Sun Sep 08, 2013 9:34 am

Vazdania wrote:
Tekania wrote:I see no reason to continue the error of its inclusion. It does nothing to the pledge but intentionally nullifying it by adding words which are divisive to it. So, I say take it back out of it.

why exactly are the words "under God" divisive to the pledge?

Because they imply that the nation is under the Christian God.
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Ifreann
Post Overlord
 
Posts: 159078
Founded: Aug 07, 2005
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Ifreann » Sun Sep 08, 2013 9:35 am

Vazdania wrote:
Tekania wrote:I see no reason to continue the error of its inclusion. It does nothing to the pledge but intentionally nullifying it by adding words which are divisive to it. So, I say take it back out of it.

why exactly are the words "under God" divisive to the pledge?

Maybe because there's lots of people who don't believe in that God?


Vazdania wrote:
Lost heros wrote: :palm: Those courts need to reread the first amendment.
"Congress shall make no law respecting the establishment of a religion."
US flag code is a law that acknowledges Christianity and other monotheistic religions.
Is that too hard to understand?

The courts have already ruled that it doesn't constitute an establishment of religion. It is in accordance with the Constitution.

"That case was later appealed to the U.S. Supreme Court and overturned on an issue of standing in Elk Grove Unified School District v. Newdow in 2004."

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Vazdania
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 19448
Founded: Mar 06, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Vazdania » Sun Sep 08, 2013 9:35 am

Eridel wrote:
Vazdania wrote:why exactly are the words "under God" divisive to the pledge?

Because they imply that the nation is under the Christian God.

No they don't. Again, the courts have ruled that the words "under God" have nothing to do with religion and are merely "ceremonial and patriotic in nature"
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We Monarchists Stand With The Morals Of The Past, As We Hatch Impossible Treasons Against The Present.

They Have No Voice; So I will Speak For Them. The Right To Life Is Fundamental To All Humans Regardless Of How Developed They Are. Pro-Woman. Pro-Child. Pro-Life.

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Eridel
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Posts: 113
Founded: Jun 28, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Eridel » Sun Sep 08, 2013 9:36 am

Abatael seems to have left. Perhaps he ran out of ways to talk around our evidence.
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Ifreann
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Founded: Aug 07, 2005
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Postby Ifreann » Sun Sep 08, 2013 9:36 am

Vazdania wrote:
Eridel wrote:Because they imply that the nation is under the Christian God.

No they don't. Again, the courts have ruled that the words "under God" have nothing to do with religion and are merely "ceremonial and patriotic in nature"

A court ruled that and their ruling was overturned. Stop lying.

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Vazdania
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Posts: 19448
Founded: Mar 06, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Vazdania » Sun Sep 08, 2013 9:38 am

Ifreann wrote:
Vazdania wrote:No they don't. Again, the courts have ruled that the words "under God" have nothing to do with religion and are merely "ceremonial and patriotic in nature"

A court ruled that and their ruling was overturned. Stop lying.

*posted before I read your comment*
NSG's Resident Constitutional Executive Monarchist!
We Monarchists Stand With The Morals Of The Past, As We Hatch Impossible Treasons Against The Present.

They Have No Voice; So I will Speak For Them. The Right To Life Is Fundamental To All Humans Regardless Of How Developed They Are. Pro-Woman. Pro-Child. Pro-Life.

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Miopic
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Posts: 1542
Founded: Nov 23, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Miopic » Sun Sep 08, 2013 9:40 am

Why even pledge your allegiance to a flag? I offer no allegiance to inanimate objects!!!1!!11!

In all seriousness I don't really understand the fuss It doesn't say what god, Even if though the us has no national religion basically everybody is some form of Catholic, for those who aren't just don't say it.
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Norstal
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Posts: 41465
Founded: Mar 07, 2008
Ex-Nation

Postby Norstal » Sun Sep 08, 2013 9:41 am

Miopic wrote:Why even pledge your allegiance to a flag? I offer no allegiance to inanimate objects!!!1!!11!

In all seriousness I don't really understand the fuss It doesn't say what god, Even if though the us has no national religion basically everybody is some form of Catholic, for those who aren't just don't say it.

It's capitalized. It's obvious which god it is.
Last edited by Norstal on Sun Sep 08, 2013 9:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
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User avatar
Eridel
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 113
Founded: Jun 28, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Eridel » Sun Sep 08, 2013 9:41 am

Miopic wrote:Why even pledge your allegiance to a flag? I offer no allegiance to inanimate objects!!!1!!11!

In all seriousness I don't really understand the fuss It doesn't say what god, Even if though the us has no national religion basically everybody is some form of Catholic, for those who aren't just don't say it.

:palm:
Words cannot express how ridiculous that statement is.
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Ifreann
Post Overlord
 
Posts: 159078
Founded: Aug 07, 2005
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Ifreann » Sun Sep 08, 2013 9:41 am

Miopic wrote:Why even pledge your allegiance to a flag? I offer no allegiance to inanimate objects!!!1!!11!

In all seriousness I don't really understand the fuss It doesn't say what god, Even if though the us has no national religion basically everybody is some form of Catholic, for those who aren't just don't say it.

Completely untrue.

User avatar
Lost heros
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9622
Founded: Jan 19, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Lost heros » Sun Sep 08, 2013 9:43 am

Vazdania wrote:
Lost heros wrote: :palm: Those courts need to reread the first amendment.
"Congress shall make no law respecting the establishment of a religion."
US flag code is a law that acknowledges Christianity and other monotheistic religions.
Is that too hard to understand?

The courts have already ruled that it doesn't constitute an establishment of religion. It is in accordance with the Constitution.

"Elk Grove Unified School District v. Newdow, 542 U.S. 1 (2004), was a case decided by the U.S. Supreme Court. The lawsuit, originally filed as Newdow v. United States Congress, Elk Grove Unified School District, et al. in 2000, led to a 2002 ruling by the United States Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit that the words "under God" in the Pledge of Allegiance are an endorsement of religion and therefore violate the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment to the United States Constitution."
And in 2002, the Ninth Circuit court declared it was unconstitutional.
Last edited by Lost Heros on Sun Mar 6, 2016 12:00, edited 173 times in total.


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Lost heros
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Posts: 9622
Founded: Jan 19, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Lost heros » Sun Sep 08, 2013 9:45 am

Eridel wrote:Abatael seems to have left. Perhaps he ran out of ways to talk around our evidence.

Perhaps he has a life outside of NS, and perhaps you shouldn't gloat.
Last edited by Lost Heros on Sun Mar 6, 2016 12:00, edited 173 times in total.


You can send me a TG. I won't mind.

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Lost heros
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Posts: 9622
Founded: Jan 19, 2012
Ex-Nation

Postby Lost heros » Sun Sep 08, 2013 9:46 am

Miopic wrote:Why even pledge your allegiance to a flag? I offer no allegiance to inanimate objects!!!1!!11!

In all seriousness I don't really understand the fuss It doesn't say what god, Even if though the us has no national religion basically everybody is some form of Catholic, for those who aren't just don't say it.

Last I checked, I was an atheist who liked upholding our constitution.
Last edited by Lost Heros on Sun Mar 6, 2016 12:00, edited 173 times in total.


You can send me a TG. I won't mind.

"The first man to compare the cheeks of a young woman to a rose was obviously a poet; the first to repeat it was possibly an idiot." - Salvador Dali

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Miopic
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Posts: 1542
Founded: Nov 23, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Miopic » Sun Sep 08, 2013 9:46 am

Eridel wrote:
Miopic wrote:Why even pledge your allegiance to a flag? I offer no allegiance to inanimate objects!!!1!!11!

In all seriousness I don't really understand the fuss It doesn't say what god, Even if though the us has no national religion basically everybody is some form of Catholic, for those who aren't just don't say it.

:palm:
Words cannot express how ridiculous that statement is.

Fair enough, Let me rephrase this Basically everybody I have ever met is some form of catholic, even people who aren't claim to be catholic I withdraw my previous statement as something idiotic I said without thinking
Economic Left/Right: 5.88 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 0.36
Thinking about vegans makes me feel depressed in the same way I get depressed when I think of starving African children-Disserbia

If all agree they agree to nothing Or if you prefer to each their own and every their each- Mio

To believe without evidence is a mental illness in my book.- Ljvonia

In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move- Douglas Adams

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Eridel
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Posts: 113
Founded: Jun 28, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Eridel » Sun Sep 08, 2013 9:48 am

Miopic wrote:
Eridel wrote: :palm:
Words cannot express how ridiculous that statement is.

Fair enough, Let me rephrase this Basically everybody I have ever met is some form of catholic, even people who aren't claim to be catholic I withdraw my previous statement as something idiotic I said without thinking

Okay...
Although that does seem a little odd...
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Miopic
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Posts: 1542
Founded: Nov 23, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Miopic » Sun Sep 08, 2013 9:50 am

Eridel wrote:
Miopic wrote:Fair enough, Let me rephrase this Basically everybody I have ever met is some form of catholic, even people who aren't claim to be catholic I withdraw my previous statement as something idiotic I said without thinking

Okay...
Although that does seem a little odd...

There are several people whom I know who say they are catholic just because they don't want to deal with the people around, basically a bunch of Christians who follow the bible to the letter, so those who aren't actually catholic act it.
Economic Left/Right: 5.88 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 0.36
Thinking about vegans makes me feel depressed in the same way I get depressed when I think of starving African children-Disserbia

If all agree they agree to nothing Or if you prefer to each their own and every their each- Mio

To believe without evidence is a mental illness in my book.- Ljvonia

In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move- Douglas Adams

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Neo Rome Republic
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5363
Founded: Dec 27, 2012
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Neo Rome Republic » Sun Sep 08, 2013 9:50 am

Miopic wrote:
Eridel wrote: :palm:
Words cannot express how ridiculous that statement is.

Fair enough, Let me rephrase this Basically everybody I have ever met is some form of catholic, even people who aren't claim to be catholic I withdraw my previous statement as something idiotic I said without thinking


They don't claim to be Catholic, but are Catholic. Dafaq? :eyebrow:
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Chinese Regions
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Posts: 16326
Founded: Apr 24, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Chinese Regions » Sun Sep 08, 2013 9:51 am

Genivaria wrote:
Mike the Progressive wrote:
Actually, that doesn't sound better. At all.

How about 'Under Canada and above Mexico'?

:bow:
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Miopic
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Posts: 1542
Founded: Nov 23, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Miopic » Sun Sep 08, 2013 9:51 am

NEO Rome Republic wrote:
Miopic wrote:Fair enough, Let me rephrase this Basically everybody I have ever met is some form of catholic, even people who aren't claim to be catholic I withdraw my previous statement as something idiotic I said without thinking


They don't claim to be Catholic, but are Catholic. Dafaq? :eyebrow:

The aren't, but claim to be
Economic Left/Right: 5.88 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 0.36
Thinking about vegans makes me feel depressed in the same way I get depressed when I think of starving African children-Disserbia

If all agree they agree to nothing Or if you prefer to each their own and every their each- Mio

To believe without evidence is a mental illness in my book.- Ljvonia

In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move- Douglas Adams

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Tlaceceyaya
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9932
Founded: Oct 17, 2011
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Tlaceceyaya » Sun Sep 08, 2013 9:51 am

Miopic wrote:for those who aren't just don't say it.

Rather than endorse a religion, why not just remove it? It's not rocket surgery.
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Neo Rome Republic
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5363
Founded: Dec 27, 2012
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Neo Rome Republic » Sun Sep 08, 2013 9:52 am

Miopic wrote:
NEO Rome Republic wrote:
They don't claim to be Catholic, but are Catholic. Dafaq? :eyebrow:

The aren't, but claim to be


Doesn't that make them Catholic?
Ethical and Metaphysical: (Pan) Humanist and Naturalist.
Political Views Sum: Centrist on social issues, Market Socialist on economic, and Radical Civic universalist on political governance.
This nation DOES(for most part) represent my OOC views.
''A rich man complaining about regulation and taxes, is like the drunkard at a party, complaining about not having enough to drink.'',

"An empty mind is a mind without a filter, the mind of a gullible fool. A closed mind is the mind unwilling to look at the reality outside its bubble. An open mind is one that is cautious, flexible yet balanced; looking at both the reality and the possibility."
OOC Info Page Pros And Cons Political Ideology

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Chinese Regions
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 16326
Founded: Apr 24, 2010
Ex-Nation

Postby Chinese Regions » Sun Sep 08, 2013 9:53 am

Starkiller101 wrote:No it should not be removed from the pledge of a allegiance because its been there since the beginning of the nation

:rofl:
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Geopolitics: Internationalist, Pan-Asian, Pan-African, Pan-Arab, Pan-Slavic, Eurofederalist,
  • For the promotion of closer ties between Europe and Russia but without Dugin's anti-intellectual quackery.
  • Against NATO, the Anglo-American "special relationship", Israel and Wahhabism.

Sociopolitics: Pro-Intellectual, Pro-Science, Secular, Strictly Anti-Theocractic, for the liberation of PoCs in Western Hemisphere without the hegemony of white liberals
Economics: Indifferent

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Miopic
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1542
Founded: Nov 23, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Miopic » Sun Sep 08, 2013 9:54 am

NEO Rome Republic wrote:
Miopic wrote:The aren't, but claim to be


Doesn't that make them Catholic?

:palm: they are not catholic, they do not follow catholic traditions, they do not celebrate Christmas, they say they are catholic because it is to much of a pain for them to have to deal with crazy Catholics that live in the vacinity
Economic Left/Right: 5.88 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 0.36
Thinking about vegans makes me feel depressed in the same way I get depressed when I think of starving African children-Disserbia

If all agree they agree to nothing Or if you prefer to each their own and every their each- Mio

To believe without evidence is a mental illness in my book.- Ljvonia

In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move- Douglas Adams

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