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"Under God" in the Pledge of Allegiance

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Should the phrase "under God" be removed from the Pledge of Allegiance?

Yes
429
62%
No
260
38%
 
Total votes : 689

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Icamera
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Founded: Apr 21, 2011
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Postby Icamera » Sat Sep 07, 2013 12:12 am

East Denmark wrote:
Icamera wrote:You know, I have a feeling slaveholders probably said the same thing back in 1860.

ooooooh..... I see where this is going....

If you check back and see this, allow me to apologize if that sounded like I was implying any connection between you and pro-slavery.

Still, it's the truth. In 1860, a Southerner could say with full accuracy that slavery was indeed in America for a while, that it had become a part of American culture, and part of our national tradition. It's really not inconceivable for a slaveholder to use those arguments when defending his right to own human laborers.

What I'm getting at is, conservatism for conservatism's sake -- simply accepting tradition regardless of its role in modern society -- isn't a wise policy. In many cases, conservatives can point to tradition as a source of morality; that's acceptable, because morality does indeed benefit society. Retaining outdated culture for no other reason than its long history, though? Not so much.
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Aquafireland
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Postby Aquafireland » Sat Sep 07, 2013 12:13 am

With the 'Under God' in the Pledge, it show that the US government actually believe in God, which sets an example for all US citizens.
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Aquafireland
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Postby Aquafireland » Sat Sep 07, 2013 12:14 am

Divair wrote:
Arkhane wrote:
If you really think I'm wasting your time, then you are free to ignore me and label me as an ignoramus.

When you keep repeating the same post and smilie, then I have reason to believe you're trying to bug me or you're incapable of debate. If you actually explain how any of this is relevant, maybe you wouldn't appear as if you're attempting to fuck with everyone.

BURN! :clap:
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Individuality-ness
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Postby Individuality-ness » Sat Sep 07, 2013 12:29 am

Aquafireland wrote:With the 'Under God' in the Pledge, it show that the US government actually believe in God, which sets an example for all US citizens.

Thank you for implying that I'm a horrible US citizen due to my atheism. Thank you so very much.
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Icamera
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Postby Icamera » Sat Sep 07, 2013 12:58 am

Individuality-ness wrote:
Aquafireland wrote:With the 'Under God' in the Pledge, it show that the US government actually believe in God, which sets an example for all US citizens.

Thank you for implying that I'm a horrible US citizen due to my atheism. Thank you so very much.

Easy with the extrapolation; it's not like he said it would set a good example.
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Aquafireland
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Postby Aquafireland » Sat Sep 07, 2013 3:05 am

Individuality-ness wrote:
Aquafireland wrote:With the 'Under God' in the Pledge, it show that the US government actually believe in God, which sets an example for all US citizens.

Thank you for implying that I'm a horrible US citizen due to my atheism. Thank you so very much.

I'm not necessarily saying that you are a bad US citizen due to your atheism, I am just pointing out the fact that the government wants you go believe in God. Get the picture?
Icamera wrote:
Individuality-ness wrote:Thank you for implying that I'm a horrible US citizen due to my atheism. Thank you so very much.

Easy with the extrapolation; it's not like he said it would set a good example.

That's almost similar to what I meant to say.
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Divair
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Postby Divair » Sat Sep 07, 2013 3:11 am

Aquafireland wrote:With the 'Under God' in the Pledge, it show that the US government actually believe in God, which sets an example for all US citizens.

Why do you hate the Constitution? What kind of American are you?

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Distruzio
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Postby Distruzio » Sat Sep 07, 2013 3:13 am

Divair wrote:
Aquafireland wrote:With the 'Under God' in the Pledge, it show that the US government actually believe in God, which sets an example for all US citizens.

Why do you hate the Constitution? What kind of American are you?


Oh you! Paying attention in history class. So silly!
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Divair
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Postby Divair » Sat Sep 07, 2013 3:14 am

Distruzio wrote:
Divair wrote:Why do you hate the Constitution? What kind of American are you?


Oh you! Paying attention in history class. So silly!

Who needs history when you can just scream 'MURICA and do whatever you want? ;)

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Arumdaum
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Postby Arumdaum » Sat Sep 07, 2013 3:15 am

Aquafireland wrote:With the 'Under God' in the Pledge, it show that the US government actually believe in God, which sets an example for all US citizens.

Why should the US government believe in an Abrahamic deity that everyone interprets and sees differently? What's so good about believing in it?

What the hell does the pledge mean for anything?
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Arumdaum
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Postby Arumdaum » Sat Sep 07, 2013 3:20 am

Aquafireland wrote:
Individuality-ness wrote:Thank you for implying that I'm a horrible US citizen due to my atheism. Thank you so very much.

I'm not necessarily saying that you are a bad US citizen due to your atheism, I am just pointing out the fact that the government wants you go believe in God. Get the picture?

Not necessarily? What do you mean by that?

How does the government want us to believe in Yahweh?
LITERALLY UNLIKE ANY OTHER RP REGION & DON'T REPORT THIS SIG
█████████████████▌TIANDI ____________██____██
_______███▌MAP _______________██_____██_████████
█████████████████▌WIKI _______██______██___██____██
_______████ DISCORD ________██████___██____██______█

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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Sat Sep 07, 2013 5:24 am

God Kefka wrote:Why does the USA even NEED a pledge in the first place?

It doesn't "NEED" one.


Aquafireland wrote:With the 'Under God' in the Pledge, it show that the US government actually believe in God, which sets an example for all US citizens.

Which is contrary to the first amendment.

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Lost heros
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Postby Lost heros » Sat Sep 07, 2013 5:26 am

Aquafireland wrote:With the 'Under God' in the Pledge, it show that the US government actually believe in God, which sets an example for all US citizens.

Wrong!
In 1954 the government added the words "Under God" to prove we were better than the Soviet Union.
Last edited by Lost Heros on Sun Mar 6, 2016 12:00, edited 173 times in total.


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Torisakia
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Postby Torisakia » Sat Sep 07, 2013 5:26 am

Aquafireland wrote:With the 'Under God' in the Pledge, it show that the US government actually believe in God, which sets an example for all US citizens.

I don't remember believing in something that isn't real set an example for anyone. :meh:

But that's a discussion for a different thread....
Last edited by Torisakia on Sat Sep 07, 2013 5:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Aquafireland
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Postby Aquafireland » Sat Sep 07, 2013 6:08 am

Lost heros wrote:
Aquafireland wrote:With the 'Under God' in the Pledge, it show that the US government actually believe in God, which sets an example for all US citizens.

Wrong!
In 1954 the government added the words "Under God" to prove we were better than the Soviet Union.

Yes, better than the commies. But that war is over now. I haven't really heard the US executing any plans to actually remove it.
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Aquafireland
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Postby Aquafireland » Sat Sep 07, 2013 6:10 am

Divair wrote:
Aquafireland wrote:With the 'Under God' in the Pledge, it show that the US government actually believe in God, which sets an example for all US citizens.

Why do you hate the Constitution? What kind of American are you?

When did I say I hated the constitution?
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Dyakovo
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Postby Dyakovo » Sat Sep 07, 2013 6:21 am

Aquafireland wrote:With the 'Under God' in the Pledge, it show that the US government actually believe in God, which sets an example for all US citizens.

Which is a perfect example of why it is unconstitutional and should be removed.
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Pope Joan
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Postby Pope Joan » Sat Sep 07, 2013 6:21 am

On the one hand, I do not care for co mingling religion with the state. It dilutes and co opts the religion.

But at least this version says that the nation is under something other than itself. I don't like the idea of pledging to some almighty behemoth state. Maybe we could say "One nation under something else" and let it go at that?
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Dyakovo
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Postby Dyakovo » Sat Sep 07, 2013 6:22 am

Aquafireland wrote:
Divair wrote:Why do you hate the Constitution? What kind of American are you?

When did I say I hated the constitution?

In the post that Div responded to.
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Divair
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Postby Divair » Sat Sep 07, 2013 6:22 am

Aquafireland wrote:
Divair wrote:Why do you hate the Constitution? What kind of American are you?

When did I say I hated the constitution?

You want to break the very first line of the 1st Amendment. You're going against most of the Founding Fathers. I cannot imagine something more anti-American.

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Dyakovo
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Postby Dyakovo » Sat Sep 07, 2013 6:25 am

Pope Joan wrote:On the one hand, I do not care for co mingling religion with the state. It dilutes and co opts the religion.

But at least this version says that the nation is under something other than itself. I don't like the idea of pledging to some almighty behemoth state. Maybe we could say "One nation under something else" and let it go at that?

The nation isn't under anything other than the sky.
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Yorkopolis
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Postby Yorkopolis » Sat Sep 07, 2013 6:27 am

Under God is unconstitutional, and the US' state motto should not be "In God we trust", because both directly violate the First Amendment. Just go back to E Pluribus Unum, which sounds way more awesome than silly "In God we trust".
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Lost heros
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Postby Lost heros » Sat Sep 07, 2013 7:25 am

Aquafireland wrote:
Lost heros wrote:Wrong!
In 1954 the government added the words "Under God" to prove we were better than the Soviet Union.

Yes, better than the commies. But that war is over now. I haven't really heard the US executing any plans to actually remove it.

Not having plans to remove it isn't the same as supporting it.
Last edited by Lost Heros on Sun Mar 6, 2016 12:00, edited 173 times in total.


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Scinan
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Postby Scinan » Sat Sep 07, 2013 7:26 am

I would just like to take a moment to point out that our country is never more divided than under the subject of god.

If I must choose between indivisibility and divinity, I will continue to choose to stand undivided alongside those I disagree with. All talk of divine mandate has failed, in every case through history. If we cannot know the will of god, and it is clear that we do not, it is left to us to stand together unknowing rather than claw our own eyes out in the name of pretending otherwise.

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Lord Tothe
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Postby Lord Tothe » Sat Sep 07, 2013 10:08 am

Lost heros wrote:
Des-Bal wrote:
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion." So this isn't that. It isn't establishing a religion and it really isn't showing a preference either.

1. Pledge of Allegiance is included in the US Flag code, which is a law.
2. "Under God" refers to the Christian God, based on the fact that Muslims almost exclusively refer to their deity as Allah and the Jews to their deity as Adonai.
3. By referring to the Christian God, Congress shows respect to Christianity.
4. Therefore, including "Under God" in the pledge of allegiance is unconstitutional.

"Respecting" in the context of the amendment doesn't mean "Honoring" or "revering", it was more like a synonym for "regarding" or "on the subject of."
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