"Under God" in the Pledge of Allegiance

[Dyakovo]

This "pledge" is complete bullshit, with or without God in it. No-one should be required to take a pledge (least of all children who are legally incapable of making any binding pledge), and in the rare circumstances where a pledge may be neccessary the wording should be as simple as possible. Eg, "I promise to tell the truth" or "without any intent of deception or evasion, I declare ..."

No-one should be required to swear in words, allegiance or loyalty to "this flag". It's just plain stupid.

No! Keep the wording "under God" right there in the pledge. It's deadweight which will help to sink the pledge itself. Down with the pledge!

I disagree. I think soldiers should have to take the pledge, other than that though i'm incredibly skeptical of the process.

There is no need for soldiers, Marines, airmen or sailors to do the pledge of allegiance. They already have the oath of enlistment.

I, (NAME), do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.

The "So help me God" needs to be removed from that as well.

[Galborg]

So?

People might not believe in God, and as some pointed out, the "Under God" part violates parts of the US constitution?

I know, I think it should be removed as well. My point was that a religious leader (Minister) wrote it without "Under God" so God (if one exists) probably wouldn't mind not being in it (or at least an educated theologian thinks so).

Indeed, a priest wrote the original Pledge. But the original Priest did not spoil that beautiful patriotic poem with that "under God" blasphemy. MacCarthy added the "under God" bit. MacCarthy set up an Inquisition, but technically, he was never ordained.

Drop it.

They say the Pledge is compulsory every fucking day, which fucks up the whole point of Freedom.

I guess once per week voluntary and once per month compulsory is a reasonable frequency.

[Ifreann]

@Iffy, not representing a state on a flag where every other state is represented is different from having a nonspecific reference to god in a saying that holds no legal power.

The flag holds no legal power, so I fail to see the difference. Or how about if, back when they were deciding to put E pluribus unum on the seal there was a typo and it was E plaribus unum? Should they keep it wrong forever because it isn't hurting anyone?

@iffy 2, Since when did it say Christian God?

It doesn't. We can none the less discern the privileged position of Christianity in US society.

[Ifreann]

I know, I think it should be removed as well. My point was that a religious leader (Minister) wrote it without "Under God" so God (if one exists) probably wouldn't mind not being in it (or at least an educated theologian thinks so).

Indeed, a priest wrote the original Pledge. But the original Priest did not spoil that beautiful patriotic poem with that "under God" blasphemy. MacCarthy added the "under God" bit. MacCarthy set up an Inquisition, but technically, he was never ordained.

Drop it.

They say the Pledge is compulsory every fucking day, which fucks up the whole point of Freedom.

I guess once per week voluntary and once per month compulsory is a reasonable frequency.

Making it compulsory ever is unreasonable. And probably illegal.

[Blekksprutia]

"I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."
[/size]

Hell no.
Relevant, although old.

[AiliailiA]

This "pledge" is complete bullshit, with or without God in it. No-one should be required to take a pledge (least of all children who are legally incapable of making any binding pledge), and in the rare circumstances where a pledge may be neccessary the wording should be as simple as possible. Eg, "I promise to tell the truth" or "without any intent of deception or evasion, I declare ..."

No-one should be required to swear in words, allegiance or loyalty to "this flag". It's just plain stupid.

No! Keep the wording "under God" right there in the pledge. It's deadweight which will help to sink the pledge itself. Down with the pledge!

I disagree. I think soldiers should have to take the pledge, other than that though i'm incredibly skeptical of the process.

Oh well I guess, soldiers. Because they're pretty stupid and in battle their brains may be a bit addled by nearby explosions. They might forget the pledge they swore to follow orders.

Yup, soldiers are pretty stupid. You can make them say anything (saluting, hand on heart, grabbing their crotch, whatever you want) because they want to serve, and to serve they should follow orders. Considering that some orders are "kick open that door which may have ten soldiers behind it, or may be booby trapped to blow your foot off" then obviously they won't bridle at being ordered to chant some words.

If that's all you have in defense of the Pledge, then thanks for weakening the case for it.

[Ifreann]

"I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."
[/size]

Hell no.
Relevant, although old.

Pretty baller little kid.

[Blekksprutia]

Only 27%?

Hello, my name is Blekk, and I'm a communist atheist Jew.

Take that, 'Murica

[Blekksprutia]

Hell no.
Relevant, although old.

Pretty baller little kid.

I know. I'm glad that America is going to be handed down to a smarter generation.
No offense

[Ancient Magmia]

The government should not be taking any stance on religion and having 'under god' in the Pledge is taking a stance.

^This.

[Ifreann]

Pretty baller little kid.

I know. I'm glad that America is going to be handed down to a smarter generation.
No offense

None taken.

[Hallistar]

Sometimes I wonder what's the point of having to do the pledge of allegiance at all in primary/secondary schooling. At least it's not something mandatory (I think the US supreme court confirmed so anyways), and when it came to my senior year classes in high school like over half my class didn't bother standing up for it.

As for the under god part, I wouldn't mind that being removed, but I didn't really care either way and I just didn't bother saying it after I stopped being theist.

I do agree with Genivaria though that the "under god" part isn't really keeping in line with the whole seperation of church and state concept, but then again since it isn't referring to a specific religion's god...eh..

[AiliailiA]

Indeed, a priest wrote the original Pledge. But the original Priest did not spoil that beautiful patriotic poem with that "under God" blasphemy. MacCarthy added the "under God" bit. MacCarthy set up an Inquisition, but technically, he was never ordained.

Drop it.

They say the Pledge is compulsory every fucking day, which fucks up the whole point of Freedom.

I guess once per week voluntary and once per month compulsory is a reasonable frequency.

Making it compulsory ever is unreasonable. And probably illegal.

Yeah. I was with Galborg all the way, right up to "once a week".

No, wait. I'm not on-side with "beautiful patriotic poem" either. The original pledge has some rhythm to it, but it's hardly beautiful poetry.

[Ifreann]

Making it compulsory ever is unreasonable. And probably illegal.

Yeah. I was with Galborg all the way, right up to "once a week".

No, wait. I'm not on-side with "beautiful patriotic poem" either. The original pledge has some rhythm to it, but it's hardly beautiful poetry.

*Shrug* De gustibus and all that. Hardly fills me with emotion or anything, but it seems perfectly good as a pledge, getting under God aside.

[Ainin]

There shouldn't be a pledge in the first place.

[Killzone35]

There shouldn't be a pledge in the first place.

well to bad

[The Land of Truth]

I don't recite the pledge in the first place. As to my opinion: Yes, it should be taken out, because it violates the First Amendment.

[Dyakovo]

Sometimes I wonder what's the point of having to do the pledge of allegiance at all in primary/secondary schooling. At least it's not something mandatory (I think the US supreme court confirmed so anyways), and when it came to my senior year classes in high school like over half my class didn't bother standing up for it.

As for the under god part, I wouldn't mind that being removed, but I didn't really care either way and I just didn't bother saying it after I stopped being theist.

I do agree with Genivaria though that the "under god" part isn't really keeping in line with the whole seperation of church and state concept, but then again since it isn't referring to a specific religion's god...eh..

If you look at the history of the Pledge of Allegiance, it most certainly is referring to a specific religion's deity. Though even if it isn't, it is endorsing being religious over being irreligious, which is still a violation of the separation of church and state.

[Killzone35]

I don't recite the pledge in the first place. As to my opinion: Yes, it should be taken out, because it violates the First Amendment.

[Divair]

I don't recite the pledge in the first place. As to my opinion: Yes, it should be taken out, because it violates the First Amendment.

Which part of the 1st Amendment?

[Dyakovo]

I don't recite the pledge in the first place. As to my opinion: Yes, it should be taken out, because it violates the First Amendment.

Which part of the 1st Amendment?

It is a violation of the separation of church and state.

[Divair]

Which part of the 1st Amendment?

It is a violation of the separation of church and state.

I got confused. I thought he meant the whole pledge.

[Lost heros]

There shouldn't be a pledge in the first place.

well to bad

1. Well should be capitalized, too has two o's, and after bad should be a period.
2. Why should there be a pledge?
3. You've presented your opinion please respond with an argument supporting your opinion.

[Dyakovo]

well to bad

1. Well should be capitalized, too has two o's, and after bad should be a period.
2. Why should there be a pledge?
3. You've presented your opinion please respond with an argument supporting your opinion.

He's just a spammer, don't bother.

[Kemalist]

As a laicist, of course I'll say yes. But since it's nobody's business but Americans...