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Philosophic Question:Solve It!

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Vicswampia
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Postby Vicswampia » Tue Sep 03, 2013 4:00 pm

Prins Maurits wrote:This is a good question :

If God was completely good then he would want to stop all evil, if God was completely powerful then he could stop all evil, but evil exists....so does that mean that God is not completely good or not completely powerful, or does god not exist?

Please post your ideas about this question!


Someone said that 'struggles bring virtue' or something. Maybe that's what good wants for us, that's why all the evil in the world...

But I'm Agnostic, so I'm not sure if I give a shit.

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Scholencia
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Postby Scholencia » Tue Sep 03, 2013 4:02 pm

I think the atheist should read the allegory of the Cave from Plato. It is very instructive and it would open eyes to many.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegory_of_the_Cave

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Minarchist States
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Postby Minarchist States » Tue Sep 03, 2013 4:02 pm

Hm?

Philosophic question...

God is dead.

And we've killed him.

The murder of all murders.

You ask what is evil, grasshopper?

Evil is murder, quite simply put grasshopper.

And as such, man murdered God with reason.

Even though the concept of God cannot be reasoned.

"God is not a mathematical diagram!" had said Neville Goddard Blake.

Now do you understand? There's a cultural, psychological reason for morality, however.
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The Parkus Empire
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Postby The Parkus Empire » Tue Sep 03, 2013 4:03 pm

Scholencia wrote:I think the atheist should read the allegory of the Cave from Plato. It is very instructive and it would open eyes to many.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegory_of_the_Cave

Back at theists.
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Torcularis Septentrionalis
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Postby Torcularis Septentrionalis » Tue Sep 03, 2013 4:03 pm

Tlaceceyaya wrote:
Torcularis Septentrionalis wrote:He could both want to do it and be capable of doing it, but does not for some reason we cannot understand.

"Humanity is incapable of comprehending it."
What a wonderful way to dismiss anything against your god.

So children always understand their parents?
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Liriena
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Postby Liriena » Tue Sep 03, 2013 4:03 pm

The North Polish Union wrote:
Liriena wrote:1. Asides from the fact that it punishes newborns for the crimes of mythological ancestors from thousand of years ago? The "sin" itself was, really, mostly God's responsibility. That he was incapable or unwilling to foresee and/or prevent said sin, even though he himself provided that sin with its own context (humans capable of temptation, a forbidden tree, and a cunning and persuasive snake), makes God the driving force behind the original sin, and gives him no moral authority to punish anyone other than himself for it.

2. If God does not break his own laws...then why does the Biblical God constantly commit genocide? Or lie, while we are at it?

1.) God is capable of being tempted Himself (see Jesus being tempted by Satan), He just never bows to temptation. Thus, humans created in His own image would be temptable.

2.) Source for both of those claims, please. FYI, the Israelites conquest of Canaan was not committed by God, but by the Israelites.

1. So...the Christian God is not truly perfect? He is not perfectly benevolent or wise? He can make poor, if not downright idiotic judgements? Then how can we rely on him?

2. God committing genocide against all living creatures (despite it being downright impossible that all living creatures committed a sin worthy of extermination), God ordering a genocide, and God lying.
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Blasveck
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Postby Blasveck » Tue Sep 03, 2013 4:03 pm

The North Polish Union wrote:
Blasveck wrote:
Stupid iPhone.

AFAIK, I am not Polish. But I probably am, considering I'm a mixture of practically every European "group" out there, plus a bit of Mexico.

:(
Oh well...
Liriena wrote:1. Asides from the fact that it punishes newborns for the crimes of mythological ancestors from thousand of years ago? The "sin" itself was, really, mostly God's responsibility. That he was incapable or unwilling to foresee and/or prevent said sin, even though he himself provided that sin with its own context (humans capable of temptation, a forbidden tree, and a cunning and persuasive snake), makes God the driving force behind the original sin, and gives him no moral authority to punish anyone other than himself for it.

2. If God does not break his own laws...then why does the Biblical God constantly commit genocide? Or lie, while we are at it?

1.) God is capable of being tempted Himself (see Jesus being tempted by Satan), He just never bows to temptation. Thus, humans created in His own image would be temptable.

2.) Source for both of those claims, please. FYI, the Israelites conquest of Canaan was not committed by God, but by the Israelites.
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Was he arrested?

Or just a ticket or something?

I believe he was actually arrested.


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Liriena
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Postby Liriena » Tue Sep 03, 2013 4:04 pm

The Parkus Empire wrote:
Scholencia wrote:I think the atheist should read the allegory of the Cave from Plato. It is very instructive and it would open eyes to many.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegory_of_the_Cave

Back at theists.

I find your misrepresentation of Plato's allegory insulting.
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Liriena
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Postby Liriena » Tue Sep 03, 2013 4:05 pm

Scholencia wrote:That is not a philosophic question.

Does anything know what is the being of the whole world?

I don't understand the question.
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Postby Divair » Tue Sep 03, 2013 4:05 pm

Liriena wrote:
The Parkus Empire wrote:Back at theists.

I find your misrepresentation of Plato's allegory insulting.

Didn't you know the ancient Greeks were good Christians?

Jeez, Liri. Try to keep up.

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Postby Tlaceceyaya » Tue Sep 03, 2013 4:07 pm

Torcularis Septentrionalis wrote:
Tlaceceyaya wrote:"Humanity is incapable of comprehending it."
What a wonderful way to dismiss anything against your god.

So children always understand their parents?

We can explain why children may at times be incapable of understanding their parents.
You just wave your hand and magic away any problems. Besides, why are you so capable of understanding god to know that humanity is incapable?
Last edited by Tlaceceyaya on Tue Sep 03, 2013 4:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Torcularis Septentrionalis
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Postby Torcularis Septentrionalis » Tue Sep 03, 2013 4:09 pm

Tlaceceyaya wrote:
Torcularis Septentrionalis wrote:So children always understand their parents?

We can explain why children may at times be incapable of understanding their parents.
You just wave your hand and magic away any problems. Besides, why are you so capable of understanding god to know that humanity is incapable?

We can explain why we don't understand God, in the same respect.
And actually, no, I do not. But you're waving your hand and dismissing my solution because you don't like the idea of something being more capable than humanity.
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Minarchist States
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Postby Minarchist States » Tue Sep 03, 2013 4:09 pm

The average Greek citizen believed in polytheism, but the Greek philosopher believed in God. Ergo, the Cave is a good source. The philosophers understood that the polytheist gods were merely only a part of God as a whole, a personality of Him, if you'd please.
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Blasveck
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Postby Blasveck » Tue Sep 03, 2013 4:11 pm

Torcularis Septentrionalis wrote:
Tlaceceyaya wrote:We can explain why children may at times be incapable of understanding their parents.
You just wave your hand and magic away any problems. Besides, why are you so capable of understanding god to know that humanity is incapable?

We can explain why we don't understand God, in the same respect.
And actually, no, I do not. But you're waving your hand and dismissing my solution because you don't like the idea of something being more capable than humanity.


Define capable.

Capable of "knowing" more?
Capable of being "more powerful"?

Capable of what exactly?
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Liriena
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Postby Liriena » Tue Sep 03, 2013 4:12 pm

Minarchist States wrote:The average Greek citizen believed in polytheism, but the Greek philosopher believed in God. Ergo, the Cave is a good source. The philosophers understood that the polytheist gods were merely only a part of God as a whole, a personality of Him, if you'd please.

Not the Judeo-Christian God, though.
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Liriena
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Postby Liriena » Tue Sep 03, 2013 4:14 pm

Liriena wrote:
Minarchist States wrote:The average Greek citizen believed in polytheism, but the Greek philosopher believed in God. Ergo, the Cave is a good source. The philosophers understood that the polytheist gods were merely only a part of God as a whole, a personality of Him, if you'd please.

Not the Judeo-Christian God, though.

Not to mention Plato's allegory was meant to serve as an example for his arguments on the "ideas" and the material world, not an argument to prove God.
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Postby Risottia » Tue Sep 03, 2013 4:15 pm

Prins Maurits wrote:This is a good question :

If God was completely good then he would want to stop all evil, if God was completely powerful then he could stop all evil, but evil exists....so does that mean that God is not completely good or not completely powerful, or does god not exist?

Please post your ideas about this question!


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Minarchist States
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Postby Minarchist States » Tue Sep 03, 2013 4:16 pm

Liriena wrote:
Minarchist States wrote:The average Greek citizen believed in polytheism, but the Greek philosopher believed in God. Ergo, the Cave is a good source. The philosophers understood that the polytheist gods were merely only a part of God as a whole, a personality of Him, if you'd please.

Not the Judeo-Christian God, though.


Arguably the definition of "God" isn't merely limited to the Judeo-Christians, but culturally, yes.
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Risottia
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Postby Risottia » Tue Sep 03, 2013 4:16 pm

Torcularis Septentrionalis wrote:
Tlaceceyaya wrote:"Humanity is incapable of comprehending it."
What a wonderful way to dismiss anything against your god.

So children always understand their parents?

I assume that totally justifies parents torturing and starving their children to death. Or doing nothing and letting others torture and starving them.

Wait.

No, it doesn't.
Last edited by Risottia on Tue Sep 03, 2013 4:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Liriena » Tue Sep 03, 2013 4:20 pm

Minarchist States wrote:
Liriena wrote:Not the Judeo-Christian God, though.


Arguably the definition of "God" isn't merely limited to the Judeo-Christians, but culturally, yes.

Actually, not even culturally.
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Scholencia
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Postby Scholencia » Tue Sep 03, 2013 4:20 pm

Liriena wrote:
Scholencia wrote:That is not a philosophic question.

Does anything know what is the being of the whole world?

I don't understand the question.

By early Greek philosophers there was the thought that every think (and creature) has a being. so, one of the tasks of the Greek philsophers was to to discover what is the being of all life and world. This part of philosophy which is dedicated to explore the being is called Metaphysics.

Various schools offered different explanations of the nature of the being. The Pythagorean schools, for example, thought the numbers is the being (according to them every thing on the world is made according to mathematics formulas and therefore this is the reason why everything can be measured; even feeling like love or hatred).

There is even a more extreme schools called the Ealits (named after the city from which they all come), who thought that there is no being and that reallity does not exist, not even live and that the whole world is an imagination. They even proof their theory with a mathematic thesis

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Postby Cameroi » Tue Sep 03, 2013 4:22 pm

i don't believe a god needs to be completely powerful to exist. i don't believe evil needs to exist at all either. but i do believe evil is a choice of behavior, and that all of the evil that exists in this world, human society itself has created.

evil happens because selfishness too often gets called good, and aggressiveness rewarded, and neither of those have to be either.

it is not nature, human or otherwise. that is a lame excuse invented by people who expect being thoughtless and annoying to reward them.

people who don't understand or don't care, that all of us statistically create the conditions we experience and/or, at least the motivations that create them.

so god, whatever god is, if even god is, really, has absolutely nothing to do with it. and that doesn't mean there isn't or can't be one, or many as the case might be. only that whatever god or gods there might actually be, owe absolutely nothing to what anyone thinks they know about it. no matter how long ago they thought they did. no matter whether they carved their thoughts in stone or on bamboo.
Last edited by Cameroi on Tue Sep 03, 2013 4:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Ethel mermania » Tue Sep 03, 2013 4:23 pm

Priory Academy USSR wrote:
The North Polish Union wrote:God would love to stop evil but will not because He gave humans free will. Because they have free will, they chose to sin, therefore letting evil into the world. God (being all-powerful) could stop evil, but chooses not to because eliminating evil would violate humanity's free will (i.e. we could not choose to do evil).


I'm pretty sure God was against the idea of giving humans free will, if I remember Genesis correctly.



if he were really against it would he stick the stupid tree in the middle of the garden with a big "do not eat" sign in front of it?
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Postby Furious Grandmothers » Tue Sep 03, 2013 4:26 pm

Prins Maurits wrote:This is a good question :

If God was completely good then he would want to stop all evil, if God was completely powerful then he could stop all evil, but evil exists....so does that mean that God is not completely good or not completely powerful, or does god not exist?

Please post your ideas about this question!

Normally when we ask about age on NS, it's because we suspect someone of being underage, but I gotta ask you if you currently consider that Carthage must be destroyed?
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Liriena
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Founded: Nov 19, 2010
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Liriena » Tue Sep 03, 2013 4:26 pm

Scholencia wrote:
Liriena wrote:I don't understand the question.

By early Greek philosophers there was the thought that every think (and creature) has a being. so, one of the tasks of the Greek philsophers was to to discover what is the being of all life and world. This part of philosophy which is dedicated to explore the being is called Metaphysics.

Various schools offered different explanations of the nature of the being. The Pythagorean schools, for example, thought the numbers is the being (according to them every thing on the world is made according to mathematics formulas and therefore this is the reason why everything can be measured; even feeling like love or hatred).

There is even a more extreme schools called the Ealits (named after the city from which they all come), who thought that there is no being and that reallity does not exist, not even live and that the whole world is an imagination. They even proof their theory with a mathematic thesis


I was aware of this...but how is it relevant to this thread?
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