Ahh faith healing.

[Tectus Terra]

But the thing is that Faith Healing isn't the best source of treatment. Sure, it works rarely, but using faith alone as a source of healing isn't a great idea...

Why not?

If you are meant to be saved you will be saved... if not you will join the Lord's Kingdom.

Using medicine wouldn't have made a difference if it was destined that you wouldn't survive...

Hey I just want to point out that right now me and over 99% of the human race really hate people like you cause guess what, I like the fact that my grandmother has gone through 3 brain surgeries and is alive today. I love spending the next 20-40 years of her life with me and the rest of my family. I'm gland she can watch me grad collage and earn my first paychecks. So pricks like you that one are stupid enough to say" hey we'll keep all you're freedoms and other rights that have worked for the past 300 years and oh wait nope most of that will have to go because it doesn't work with our faith." I'm trying very hard not to swear right now but if only there was a ban button I would slap you with until my mouse broke.

[Utceforp]

Given the price to pay for those small rewards is people being able to justify their racism, homophobia and luddism, among other things, the existence of religion isn't something to be encouraged.

Wow. That's a gross generalization and just downright dumb to say. Stalin killed a bunch of people. Staling promoted atheism. Does that mean all atheists are Stalinists who advocate mass killing? No. Does it mean atheism should be discouraged? No. Don't make generalizations.

I'm not saying all religious people cause evil things to happen, or that all evil things are caused by religious people. I'm saying that a significant amount of the world's problems are caused by people with religious motivation, and that the evil caused by religion far, far outweighs the small benefits. Also, it makes sense to not believe in something that has no proof, whether or not it is inherently good or not.

[Solaray]

Wow. That's a gross generalization and just downright dumb to say. Stalin killed a bunch of people. Staling promoted atheism. Does that mean all atheists are Stalinists who advocate mass killing? No. Does it mean atheism should be discouraged? No. Don't make generalizations.

I'm not saying all religious people cause evil things to happen, or that all evil things are caused by religious people. I'm saying that a significant amount of the world's problems are caused by people with religious motivation, and that the evil caused by religion far, far outweighs the small benefits. Also, it makes sense to not believe in something that has no proof, whether or not it is inherently good or not.

Religion alone causes none of those problems. The problems are caused by people that misinterpret or take to the extreme, their religions. Jesus never said gays were evil. Mohammed never said terrorism was the way to go.

[Christmahanikwanzikah]

:palm:

Some times I wonder about the people of the US. Measles is starting to make a resurgence after it has was basically eradicated for years.

Latest example was a mega church in Texas

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nati ... k/2693945/

At least this church learned and provides for free vaccination clinics.

Any other countries having such problems?

How does this have anything to do with faith healing?

[Bodobol]

It's the fault of the religious, but this stupid incident wouldn't have happened if religion didn't exist.

You're one of the cool religious people, though.

I wouldn't blame religion for what the religious do all the time.

Good, I do as well think that I am cooooool.

I'm not blaming religion completely for it; but religion, like it or not, does play a part in it, and while it is still the ultimate fault of the religious, I think I would be reasonable in concluding that these events would not happen as much if religion didn't exist.

[Christmahanikwanzikah]

I wouldn't blame religion for what the religious do all the time.

Good, I do as well think that I am cooooool.

I'm not blaming religion completely for it; but religion, like it or not, does play a part in it, and while it is still the ultimate fault of the religious, I think I would be reasonable in concluding that these events would not happen as much if religion didn't exist.

People of all faiths, or lack thereof, pull this same kind of stupid crap. This article has nothing to do with the topic.

[Tectus Terra]

Pascals wager doesn't work, believing ''just in case'' is pointless. I mean lets say God judges me by the ''clothing I wear'', how well I sing, hell he may not care if I believe in his existence or not, and judge me by my actions, rather than belief if he was real. So believing Religion is pointless because any scenario of God is ''just as likely'' so believing one idea of God rewarding you, has no guarantee. It doesn't even work as an insurance policy. So an Atheist may or may not be punished just as likely, as any other Religious person like a Christian. So belief just in case or out of fear, is a waste of time.

The point I was trying to make was that Occam's Razor doesn't disprove God, and that just because it's a thing, doesn't mean everyone abides by it. Just like Pascal's Wager.

I read a saying made by a greek once it goes " just because you're not interested in politics doesn't mean politics isn't interested in you" great saying

[Bodobol]

I'm not blaming religion completely for it; but religion, like it or not, does play a part in it, and while it is still the ultimate fault of the religious, I think I would be reasonable in concluding that these events would not happen as much if religion didn't exist.

(1)People of all faiths, or lack thereof, pull this same kind of stupid crap. (2)This article has nothing to do with the topic.

(1)True, but certain interpretations of religion have promoted it, causing stuff like faith 'healing' to happen.
(2)The article in the OP didn't really say it, but it was a faith healing church.

[The Black Forrest]

:palm:

Some times I wonder about the people of the US. Measles is starting to make a resurgence after it has was basically eradicated for years.

Latest example was a mega church in Texas

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nati ... k/2693945/

At least this church learned and provides for free vaccination clinics.

Any other countries having such problems?

How does this have anything to do with faith healing?

Copeland and his daughter advocate faith healing.

http://www.nbcnews.com/health/texas-meg ... 8C11044898

[Norstal]

:palm:

Some times I wonder about the people of the US. Measles is starting to make a resurgence after it has was basically eradicated for years.

Latest example was a mega church in Texas

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nati ... k/2693945/

At least this church learned and provides for free vaccination clinics.

Any other countries having such problems?

Oh come on. Even Haiti comes to mind.

[Christmahanikwanzikah]

How does this have anything to do with faith healing?

Copeland and his daughter advocate faith healing.

http://www.nbcnews.com/health/texas-meg ... 8C11044898

That there are documented cases of measles in these churches means, in all likelihood, that these people sought medical attention. Which is antithetical to notion of faith healing. Not arguing Copeland's stance, but I guess some of his parishioners feel differently.

And, while it's possible to believe and faith healing and be in the anti-vax community (I don't know what their stance on vaccinations are, so I'll be intentionally unsure here), one can certainly be in the anti-vax community and not in the other. Which is why this article doesn't seem like a good topic starter for the faith healing debate.

[Narland]

How does this have anything to do with faith healing?

Copeland and his daughter advocate faith healing.

http://www.nbcnews.com/health/texas-meg ... 8C11044898

Churches that have their own medical clinics and hospitals which give out free inoculations are very unlikely to espouse forms of "faith healing" that reject medication. Not all believers of faith healings believe that medicines should be rejected. Like all things marketted to us for mass consumption, they should be critiqued, evaluated, and used as safety and health permit.

I am not going to take a pretty colored pill just because it is advertised in a commercial in the middle of watching "Sharknado!" It is going to make me more suspicious of the pharmaceutical market than I already am. Especially when the side effects are indistinguishable from the symptoms it is trying to alleviate.

The op conflates the problem, (which could be anything from an immigration vector (which according to the CDC is the most common cause of new measles outbreaks in North America), and/or people rejecting MMR vaccines because they are not up to speed on the Lancet fraud case regarding its dangers. (A common misconception advertised widely in the US and still believed because Medical Journals reported that there was evidence that the side effects of the MMR vaccine are greater than the disease--the study of which has since been debunked).

In Church history, however, medicine and prayer go hand in hand, they are not mutually exclusive. Prayer for the sick and healing by faith is a Chistian tradition practiced since its inception. Jesus said that the sick need a physician. Paul told Timohty to take some wine for his frequent stomach ailements. James the half-brother of Jesus wrote that we should call for the elders to the church (some of whom were physicians) to annoint and pray for the sick.

I would rather see a praying Doctor who is up on the lastest medical innovations and has a strong relationship with God, than someone who has one but not the other.

[Farnhamia]

Copeland and his daughter advocate faith healing.

http://www.nbcnews.com/health/texas-meg ... 8C11044898

Churches that have their own medical clinics and hospitals which give out free inoculations are very unlikely to espouse forms of "faith healing" that reject medication. Not all believers of faith healings believe that medicines should be rejected. Like all things marketted to us for mass consumption, they should be critiqued, evaluated, and used as safety and health permit.

I am not going to take a pretty colored pill just because it is advertised in a commercial in the middle of watching "Sharknado!" It is going to make me more suspicious of the pharmaceutical market than I already am. Especially when the side effects are indistinguishable from the symptoms it is trying to alleviate.

The op conflates the problem, (which could be anything from an immigration vector (which according to the CDC is the most common cause of new measles outbreaks in North America), and/or people rejecting MMR vaccines because they are not up to speed on the Lancet fraud case regarding its dangers. (A common misconception advertised widely in the US and still believed because Medical Journals reported that there was evidence that the side effects of the MMR vaccine are greater than the disease--the study of which has since been debunked).

In Church history, however, medicine and prayer go hand in hand, they are not mutually exclusive. Prayer for the sick and healing by faith is a Chistian tradition practiced since its inception. Jesus said that the sick need a physician. Paul told Timohty to take some wine for his frequent stomach ailements. James the half-brother of Jesus wrote that we should call for the elders to the church (some of whom were physicians) to annoint and pray for the sick.

I would rather see a praying Doctor who is up on the lastest medical innovations and has a strong relationship with God, than someone who has one but not the other.

And I would rather see Preachers not giving out medical advice:

Eagle Mountain is led by pastor Terri Copeland Pearsons, the daughter of televangelist Kenneth Copeland. Church leaders wouldn't grant interviews, but Pearsons released a statement after the outbreak saying she isn't anti-vaccine. But Pearsons added that she still has some reservations about vaccines.

"The concerns we have had are primarily with very young children who have family history of autism and with bundling too many immunizations at one time," she said.

Pearsons set up vaccination clinics on church property, but at the same time, when she preaches to her congregates, the message is for them to put their faith in God.

"So I'm going to tell you what the facts are, and the facts are the facts, but then we know the truth. That always overcomes facts," she has said.

The church has a vast ministry with international reach. Founder Kenneth Copeland has spoken against vaccines in the past. In a 2010 broadcast, Copeland expressed shock at the number of vaccines recommended for his grandchild.

"You don't take the word of the guy that's trying to give the shot about what's good and what isn't," he said.

[Narland]

Churches that have their own medical clinics and hospitals which give out free inoculations are very unlikely to espouse forms of "faith healing" that reject medication. Not all believers of faith healings believe that medicines should be rejected. Like all things marketted to us for mass consumption, they should be critiqued, evaluated, and used as safety and health permit.

I am not going to take a pretty colored pill just because it is advertised in a commercial in the middle of watching "Sharknado!" It is going to make me more suspicious of the pharmaceutical market than I already am. Especially when the side effects are indistinguishable from the symptoms it is trying to alleviate.

The op conflates the problem, (which could be anything from an immigration vector (which according to the CDC is the most common cause of new measles outbreaks in North America), and/or people rejecting MMR vaccines because they are not up to speed on the Lancet fraud case regarding its dangers. (A common misconception advertised widely in the US and still believed because Medical Journals reported that there was evidence that the side effects of the MMR vaccine are greater than the disease--the study of which has since been debunked).

In Church history, however, medicine and prayer go hand in hand, they are not mutually exclusive. Prayer for the sick and healing by faith is a Chistian tradition practiced since its inception. Jesus said that the sick need a physician. Paul told Timohty to take some wine for his frequent stomach ailements. James the half-brother of Jesus wrote that we should call for the elders to the church (some of whom were physicians) to annoint and pray for the sick.

I would rather see a praying Doctor who is up on the lastest medical innovations and has a strong relationship with God, than someone who has one but not the other.

And I would rather see Preachers not giving out medical advice:

Eagle Mountain is led by pastor Terri Copeland Pearsons, the daughter of televangelist Kenneth Copeland. Church leaders wouldn't grant interviews, but Pearsons released a statement after the outbreak saying she isn't anti-vaccine. But Pearsons added that she still has some reservations about vaccines.

"The concerns we have had are primarily with very young children who have family history of autism and with bundling too many immunizations at one time," she said.

Pearsons set up vaccination clinics on church property, but at the same time, when she preaches to her congregates, the message is for them to put their faith in God.

"So I'm going to tell you what the facts are, and the facts are the facts, but then we know the truth. That always overcomes facts," she has said.

The church has a vast ministry with international reach. Founder Kenneth Copeland has spoken against vaccines in the past. In a 2010 broadcast, Copeland expressed shock at the number of vaccines recommended for his grandchild.

"You don't take the word of the guy that's trying to give the shot about what's good and what isn't," he said.

Unless the preacher is a physician, or the physician is also a theologian.

Seriously, I cannot and do not espouse the "faith movement" of which the Copelands are a part. That aberration of Christianity has caused much harm. When you need a doctor, you need a doctor, When you need a preacher you need a preacher.

Not so seriously, When you need a the police, they are never to be found...

[Bottle]

Churches that have their own medical clinics and hospitals which give out free inoculations are very unlikely to espouse forms of "faith healing" that reject medication. Not all believers of faith healings believe that medicines should be rejected. Like all things marketted to us for mass consumption, they should be critiqued, evaluated, and used as safety and health permit.

I am not going to take a pretty colored pill just because it is advertised in a commercial in the middle of watching "Sharknado!" It is going to make me more suspicious of the pharmaceutical market than I already am. Especially when the side effects are indistinguishable from the symptoms it is trying to alleviate.

The op conflates the problem, (which could be anything from an immigration vector (which according to the CDC is the most common cause of new measles outbreaks in North America), and/or people rejecting MMR vaccines because they are not up to speed on the Lancet fraud case regarding its dangers. (A common misconception advertised widely in the US and still believed because Medical Journals reported that there was evidence that the side effects of the MMR vaccine are greater than the disease--the study of which has since been debunked).

In Church history, however, medicine and prayer go hand in hand, they are not mutually exclusive. Prayer for the sick and healing by faith is a Chistian tradition practiced since its inception. Jesus said that the sick need a physician. Paul told Timohty to take some wine for his frequent stomach ailements. James the half-brother of Jesus wrote that we should call for the elders to the church (some of whom were physicians) to annoint and pray for the sick.

I would rather see a praying Doctor who is up on the lastest medical innovations and has a strong relationship with God, than someone who has one but not the other.

And I would rather see Preachers not giving out medical advice:

Eagle Mountain is led by pastor Terri Copeland Pearsons, the daughter of televangelist Kenneth Copeland. Church leaders wouldn't grant interviews, but Pearsons released a statement after the outbreak saying she isn't anti-vaccine. But Pearsons added that she still has some reservations about vaccines.

"The concerns we have had are primarily with very young children who have family history of autism and with bundling too many immunizations at one time," she said.

Pearsons set up vaccination clinics on church property, but at the same time, when she preaches to her congregates, the message is for them to put their faith in God.

"So I'm going to tell you what the facts are, and the facts are the facts, but then we know the truth. That always overcomes facts," she has said.

The church has a vast ministry with international reach. Founder Kenneth Copeland has spoken against vaccines in the past. In a 2010 broadcast, Copeland expressed shock at the number of vaccines recommended for his grandchild.

"You don't take the word of the guy that's trying to give the shot about what's good and what isn't," he said.

In fairness to religion, the daughter recently started some frantic backtracking now that there is a nasty measles epidemic in their megachurch, so the measles epidemic was clearly God's way of healing them of their anti-science idiocy.

[Divair]

Ahh, faith healing. What a bunch of nonsense.

[Arglorand]

Sometimes faith healing can work better than medicine so long as its real and divinely backed...

I have a great grandfather who had cancer and couldn't be cured by medicines. He went to a church, prayed, saw a faith healer and after several weeks he was cured by a miracle.

Science is not the end all be all...

That is such a fascinatingly silly anecdote that it's practically cute.

[Surfistan]

Faith healing works though, I prayed to Her Illustrous and Most Holy Invisible Pinkness when I had a cold last year, wouldn't you know, it dissappeared!

May Her hooves always trample in my favour.

[Britannic Realms]

While faith healing isn't the most useful thing, I do wish people would stop labeling all religion as bad just because of a few people.

[Arglorand]

While faith healing isn't the most useful thing, I do wish people would stop labeling all religion as bad just because of a few people.

While I agree with you, what you just said is not even REMOTELY connected to the topic.

[Surfistan]

While faith healing isn't the most useful thing, I do wish people would stop labeling all religion as bad just because of a few people.

Well sure, religion can be like neutral/good, just not when it comes to medicine.

[TaQud]

:palm:

Some times I wonder about the people of the US. Measles is starting to make a resurgence after it has was basically eradicated for years.

Latest example was a mega church in Texas

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nati ... k/2693945/

At least this church learned and provides for free vaccination clinics.

Any other countries having such problems?

oh this happened in texas, i'm not suprised than

[Britannic Realms]

While faith healing isn't the most useful thing, I do wish people would stop labeling all religion as bad just because of a few people.

While I agree with you, what you just said is not even REMOTELY connected to the topic.

The topic is about faith healing.

[Arglorand]

While I agree with you, what you just said is not even REMOTELY connected to the topic.

The topic is about faith healing.

So talk about faith healing, not about silly people making silly generalizations.

[Katganistan]

No. That was strawman and hyperbole. Religious faith is not the same as having faith in any given thing and relying solely on faith for every single thing in life. All the comic proved is that you have little to no understanding in how religious faith works.

What's the point in your argument? What could people possibly have to gain by preferring faith over logic and going "yes, there is a god." Why believe in God?

*shrugs* Why not believe in God? I do, but I still make use of modern medicine and accept that sceince does explain the universe and its workings, thank you very much.