Why is America trading with a communistic country?

[Luveria]

NO WE SHOULD NOT! Call me a fascist scumbag screaming "Yellow Peril", but no. If we were to follow the practices of 'true' realpolitik (not retardpolitik like Clinton urging China to buy our debts), we would isolate ourselves from GATT, the WTO, etc., rebuild our fucked-to-hell manufacturing industry to get a export surplus again and build our tax base on that to remain independent of others' influence, whilst still allowing foreign investment (You can bring your money, leave your cheap shit at home" policy).

Not this fairy, no point, blustery "oh, we need to show our presence on the world stage" bullshit!

Build our equipment here with our own machinery, resources, and talent and we'll see how many of these 'globalized' nations try to pick a fight with us when we send some CIA spooks over into the regions where they have some 10-year-old assemble their military radios and add a backdoor to them that fries all comms and effectively paralyze their "combined forces." Watch everyone in the UN back down when they realize "Oh shit, these guys are crazy enough to start a war, and they JUST MIGHT NUKE US if we push them."

We talk a lot of smack about being el primero, but noone has the stones to do something to secure that position.

After a long session of deep thought, I've decided to use Ourisio's post as copypasta. It's got the marine sniper feel to it.

[Siaos]

Fuck.

Well, the point still stands.

Noone cares about quotes about communism unless they're from Marx or Engels.

"Shake Shake Shake, Shake your booty, Shake your booty"
-Karl Marx

[Blasveck]

NO WE SHOULD NOT! Call me a fascist scumbag screaming "Yellow Peril", but no. If we were to follow the practices of 'true' realpolitik (not retardpolitik like Clinton urging China to buy our debts), we would isolate ourselves from GATT, the WTO, etc., rebuild our fucked-to-hell manufacturing industry to get a export surplus again and build our tax base on that to remain independent of others' influence, whilst still allowing foreign investment (You can bring your money, leave your cheap shit at home" policy).

Not this fairy, no point, blustery "oh, we need to show our presence on the world stage" bullshit!

Build our equipment here with our own machinery, resources, and talent and we'll see how many of these 'globalized' nations try to pick a fight with us when we send some CIA spooks over into the regions where they have some 10-year-old assemble their military radios and add a backdoor to them that fries all comms and effectively paralyze their "combined forces." Watch everyone in the UN back down when they realize "Oh shit, these guys are crazy enough to start a war, and they JUST MIGHT NUKE US if we push them."

We talk a lot of smack about being el primero, but noone has the stones to do something to secure that position.

I can't remember where I read it, but somewhere I read about the evolution of economies, and how America isn't supposed to be a "manufacturing" economy anymore.

It's supposed to be a "technology" and "smarts" economy.
Places like China take up the banner as "manufacturers".
But I'm probably wrong on this account.

[4years]

1. If land is being used as a factor of production or to generate rent it has economic value, outlays of capital have been made to cause the land have economic value. (And thus be accounted for under constant capital) Human capital doesn't exist except in slave societies, the term you are looking for is human resources which are irrelevant economically expect as the have economic effects, ie. a large group of unemployed people is is meaningless for a value standpoint Exocet as the serve to depress wages and this effect the ratio of necessary to surplus labour done by working people as the unemployed (by definition) aren't producing value.

3. That isn't how the LTV works at all. The LVT factors in profit, as I said right at the beginning it is constant capital + variable capital + surplus value; you seem to confuse the normative police a associated with the LTV if with the LTV itself and then get those policies wrong. The socialist economic policies go with the LTV strive to reassign where the surplus value ends up and to adjust the relationship between variable capital and surplus value (that is necessary and surplus labour time) in favor of the working people.

*cough* http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/wo ... /index.htm *cough*

1. Right, so you're one of those people who factor land as a part of capital? Well, I personally disagree with that, but I guess it can work. In any event, you don't think human capital exists? THAT really is economics 101. As for the rest of your paragraph, I'm going to have to ask you to insert proper punctuation and grammar because I can't understand anything as is.

2. The LTV does not factor in profit in the traditional sense. From what I have understood, it (incorrectly) mistakens profit for value added. The surplus labour time you mentioned is added value here.

1. You don't really get how economics work do you? Natural resources become capital when they are invested in and aren't relevant to value calculations otherwise. And your source even acknowledges that human capital (using a terrible definition of capital one might add) is a useless term for various other phenomenon.

2. Stop embrassing yourself. New value is only produced by human labour, profit is value produced by human labour beyond the cost of the human labour.

[Indira]

China isn't communist and capitalist nations by definition need to TRADE. Very important detail that. Oh and the Cold War is OVER.

[Ourisio]

If your machinery, resources, and talent were superior to foreign countries', then people would use yours, not foreign countries'. Just saying.

Not really. Same quality stuff for higher prices because the law ties the producers' hands from going back to the 1880's when immigration was heavy and the safety rules and regulations and minimum wages we enjoy today didn't exist, but New York had one helluva garment district. Sure, Europe wasn't buying waistcoats from Brooklyn en masse, but we sure had enough clout to give Spain the final kick in the balls and take the Philippines and arm the allies in WW2.

That's not realpolitik, that's being daft. Why would you isolate yourself from the WTO?

A tax on imports is equivalent to a tax on exports.


I'll be perfectly honest, I'm just spouting shit here. The idea is to discourage companies from going overseas with their production. "You're on OUR turf, so you play by OUR rules!"

Also, have you heard of MAD? The US is not the only one with nukes.

Yeah, but we're the only nation besides Russia to REALLY prepare for a nuclear war. To say nothing of the fact that we have more warheads to tear everyone else a new one five times over.

[Arumdaum]

American education.

Know maybe the fact that the prc claims itself to be a communist country run by a communist party who elects communist leaders. Now hey could they all be liars sure, but given the amount of central planning and redistribution and lakc of private property rights and free markets in china (though this is changing somewhat fortunately) there is a great deal of circumstantial evidence they are commies. As for the DPRK well that just totally messed up system that can't really be classified.

lolwut

[Arumdaum]

The Soviet Union weren't commies either.

Actually yes, yes they were

Do you just post links without reading them? Because it disproves that the Soviet Union was communist.

[Wolfmanne]

I'm sure a lot of people have already said this, but China is state capitalist, not communist.

[Spetsnazastan]

OK there has to be some trolling going on in this thread though maybe not necessarily by the OP. This forum has gone through the "no communist states" thing way too many times for people to not understand that. Some of the comments about "rebuilding American manufacturing and nuking everyone" specifically.

[Arumdaum]

Well, considering one of their parties is Communist Party of China anyone can figure out that communism has support in china.

Pure Communism - the Communism born from the ideals of Marx and Engels - believed that in the final stage of the process of human history, the State would be dissolved and people would live together in Communes, supporting each other by putting everything they produce into the community and everyone gets equal shares in return for what they put in. This is true Communism.

The fact that China still exists as a state proves it's not Communist, in any form. Just because it names itself 'Communist' doesn't make it so.

China doesn't call itself a communist country, nor do I think people getting equal shares is a necessity in communism.

[Luveria]

American education.

Know maybe the fact that the prc claims itself to be a communist country run by a communist party who elects communist leaders. Now hey could they all be liars sure, but given the amount of central planning and redistribution and lakc of private property rights and free markets in china (though this is changing somewhat fortunately) there is a great deal of circumstantial evidence they are commies. As for the DPRK well that just totally messed up system that can't really be classified.

Are you talking about 1960s China? It sure isn't today's PRC you're talking about.

[Ourisio]

I can't remember where I read it, but somewhere I read about the evolution of economies, and how America isn't supposed to be a "manufacturing" economy anymore.

It's supposed to be a "technology" and "smarts" economy.
Places like China take up the banner as "manufacturers".
But I'm probably wrong on this account.

"Smarts" is gone, off on some steamy affair with a few fellows by the names of "Asad", "Yung", "Parakti", etc. Tech? Made (better) in China. It's not going to sustain itself.

[Luveria]

NO WE SHOULD NOT! Call me a fascist scumbag screaming "Yellow Peril", but no. If we were to follow the practices of 'true' realpolitik (not retardpolitik like Clinton urging China to buy our debts), we would isolate ourselves from GATT, the WTO, etc., rebuild our fucked-to-hell manufacturing industry to get a export surplus again and build our tax base on that to remain independent of others' influence, whilst still allowing foreign investment (You can bring your money, leave your cheap shit at home" policy).

Not this fairy, no point, blustery "oh, we need to show our presence on the world stage" bullshit!

Build our equipment here with our own machinery, resources, and talent and we'll see how many of these 'globalized' nations try to pick a fight with us when we send some CIA spooks over into the regions where they have some 10-year-old assemble their military radios and add a backdoor to them that fries all comms and effectively paralyze their "combined forces." Watch everyone in the UN back down when they realize "Oh shit, these guys are crazy enough to start a war, and they JUST MIGHT NUKE US if we push them."

We talk a lot of smack about being el primero, but noone has the stones to do something to secure that position.

I can't remember where I read it, but somewhere I read about the evolution of economies, and how America isn't supposed to be a "manufacturing" economy anymore.

It's supposed to be a "technology" and "smarts" economy.
Places like China take up the banner as "manufacturers".
But I'm probably wrong on this account.

You're not wrong. Economies evolve when they become developed enough. Autarky doesn't work.

[Arumdaum]

Read the first bloody sentence.


Was the USSR classless, moneyless, and stateless?

Fine then they were a freaking Communist State happy now

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communist_state

and yes the term is better than marxist leninist because guess what that's what 99% of people call the soviet union i.e. communist.

Technically, "communist state" is a contradictio in terminis as a communist society as defined by both Marxists and anarcho-communists is in principle stateless.[1]

[Arumdaum]

China is Half Communist and Half Capitalist

No, not at all. That's impossible.

[Luveria]

I can't remember where I read it, but somewhere I read about the evolution of economies, and how America isn't supposed to be a "manufacturing" economy anymore.

It's supposed to be a "technology" and "smarts" economy.
Places like China take up the banner as "manufacturers".
But I'm probably wrong on this account.

"Smarts" is gone, off on some steamy affair with a few fellows by the names of "Asad", "Yung", "Parakti", etc. Tech? Made (better) in China. It's not going to sustain itself.

Wut. I don't even...

[Luveria]

China is Half Communist and Half Capitalist

No, not at all. That's impossible.

Wrong. It's entirely possible if one side is communist, and the other side capitalist, like North and South Korea. *nods*

[Slafstopia]

Noone cares about quotes about communism unless they're from Marx or Engels.

"Shake Shake Shake, Shake your booty, Shake your booty"
-Karl Marx

"I don't always engage in a party. But when I do, it isn't political."

Inspired by 4years.

[Benuty]

No, not at all. That's impossible.

Wrong. It's entirely possible if one side is communist, and the other side capitalist, like North and South Korea. *nods*

Nice sarcasm.

[Arumdaum]

China hasn't been Communist for a while now.

The political unit known as China's never been communist...

[Luveria]

Wrong. It's entirely possible if one side is communist, and the other side capitalist, like North and South Korea. *nods*

Nice sarcasm.

I had to make it clear it was sarcasm, because a few times people have actually thought I'm dumb enough to believe such things.

[Arumdaum]

China hasn't been Communist for a while now.

I would say they've been Communist in name only for quite some time now. Probably after Richard Nixon visited the place.

Not even in name...

[Luveria]

I would say they've been Communist in name only for quite some time now. Probably after Richard Nixon visited the place.

Not even in name...

They never were in name. The People's Republic title is chosen to show it's a Marxist-Leninist state, not a communist one.

[Arumdaum]

I don't understand. Do you mean this didn't show up? Or maybe this? Or this?

That's three active communist parties in the United States that I've listed, though I'm sure there's more. Thus, by your logic, America is a communist state.

Besides, China is awesome and, in order to make sure it remains awesome, we must give them money. All of the money.

No it's that youve have to be a communist party member to be part of the national legislature that makes china communist (by this line of reasoning anyway). If the USA was a one party system dominated by the communist party then it too would be communist but it isn't its a two party democracy.

japan must be communist then lol