The Mac Donald's Strike

[Colbert Super PAC]

I assume someone already posted the hilarious McDonalds budget?

Hilarious? You mean a clever plan to assure everyone who works at McDonald's can have a normal life. These workers should be on their knees, thanking McDonald's! All we want in return for this great idea is half of their wage. Seems reasonable, no?

[Gauthier]

Some Fat people will be furious over this!

Because being trapped in a Food Desert is the same as being lazy.

[Greed and Death]

Can someone explain the logic behind the claim that raising minimum wages to 10 or 15 dollars for fast food employees will somehow devalue the dollar or bankrupt a billion dollar industry?

I see it more as benefiting one region of the country ( The North East and West coast, at the expense of other regions of the country the South and Midwest).

[Magna Libero]

Can someone explain the logic behind the claim that raising minimum wages to 10 or 15 dollars for fast food employees will somehow devalue the dollar or bankrupt a billion dollar industry?

I see it more as benefiting one region of the country ( The North East and West coast, at the expense of other regions of the country the South and Midwest).

Benefiting?? Explain.

[Grenartia]

Can someone explain the logic behind the claim that raising minimum wages to 10 or 15 dollars for fast food employees will somehow devalue the dollar or bankrupt a billion dollar industry?

I see it more as benefiting one region of the country ( The North East and West coast, at the expense of other regions of the country the South and Midwest).

Again, just change the minimum wage laws to reflect the cost of living in a given county/county equivalent.

[Lordieth]

I'm in complete favour of this.

Providing they also rise food prices to compensate for the increase. Because if companies do one thing well, it's spite.

[Grenartia]

I'm in complete favour of this.

Providing they also rise food prices to compensate for the increase.

Putting us right back at square one.

[Len Hyet]

I'm in complete favour of this.

Providing they also rise food prices to compensate for the increase. Because if companies do one thing well, it's spite.

Because raising the minimum wage price would have such a large impact on food prices amiright?
Nope.
Restaurants won't really be effected, and is actually good for business.

[Lordieth]

I'm in complete favour of this.

Providing they also rise food prices to compensate for the increase.

Putting us right back at square one.

It's exactly what would happen if McDonalds were forced into increasing the wage by this much. Personally, I think asking roughly double their wage is ridiculous. Unless the hope is to force McDonalds to compromise and raise it by a few dollars, in which case it may actually make McDonalds more competitive, than less.

If you don't like the pay, find another job. Nobody's forcing you to work at McDonalds. We all want a pay raise. Who wouldn't? There's reasonable demands, and then there's ridiculous, and for entry-level positions, I'm afraid this is erring on the ridiculous.

[Avenio]

If you don't like the pay, find another job. Nobody's forcing you to work at McDonalds.

You really think the people working at McDonalds' for their primary income source have the luxury to shop around for better wages?

[Franklin Delano Bluth]

The only way you could argue that an increased minimum wage will be totally obliterated by an increase in prices is if labor is the only expense and everyone at all points in the supply again makes minimum wage.

Neither of which are, of course, the case.

[Lordieth]

If you don't like the pay, find another job. Nobody's forcing you to work at McDonalds.

You really think the people working at McDonalds' for their primary income source have the luxury to shop around for better wages?

No. Which makes it all the more poignant. What incentive does McDonalds have to raise the minimum wage? Well, apart from media pressure and PR. If they're not likely to get better wages elsewhere, then there doesn't seem like there's any natural economic drive for wages to go up. I'm not saying wage increases can't have a knock-on effect and further-reaching benefits, but if you work at McDonalds, you have to manage your expectations. Raising the wage to double is ludicrous. A wage increase by a few dollars would probably be beneficial. Double? No. Sets a bad precedent, and forcing industries to pay more than a job is worth doesn't sound economical at all.

Is the work itself $15 an hour? Are they being grossly underpaid for an entry-level job? If so, then maybe I'd be willing to change my mind.

[Salandriagado]

Can someone explain the logic behind the claim that raising minimum wages to 10 or 15 dollars for fast food employees will somehow devalue the dollar or bankrupt a billion dollar industry?

I see it more as benefiting one region of the country ( The North East and West coast, at the expense of other regions of the country the South and Midwest).

Well that's easy: tie the minimum wage to local PPP.

[Enadail]

Putting us right back at square one.

It's exactly what would happen if McDonalds were forced into increasing the wage by this much. Personally, I think asking roughly double their wage is ridiculous. Unless the hope is to force McDonalds to compromise and raise it by a few dollars, in which case it may actually make McDonalds more competitive, than less.

If you don't like the pay, find another job. Nobody's forcing you to work at McDonalds. We all want a pay raise. Who wouldn't? There's reasonable demands, and then there's ridiculous, and for entry-level positions, I'm afraid this is erring on the ridiculous.

Entry-level position has NO meaning here. An entry-level engineering position is entirely different from entry-level in the services industry. And even managers working for McDonalds have trouble making ends meet. That's no by no means entry-level. This obsession over "entry-level" baffles me.

Regardless, low skilled workers can't simply leave their jobs for another one; they can barely survive on the job they currently have. Quitting, even for a week, would mean starving for that time, ASSUMING they could find another job, which is unlikely, because its a saturated market.

As for raising prices, why? Is McDonalds barely making a profit? Do they have no margin? Or are they making tons of money on the backs of workers who can barely afford to feed themselves? This idea that raising the wages would lead to a rise in prices assumes that the company maintains the same exact profit margin, which means they actually are exploiting their workers.

[Enadail]

You really think the people working at McDonalds' for their primary income source have the luxury to shop around for better wages?

No. Which makes it was all the more poignant. What incentive does McDonalds have to raise the minimum wage? Well, apart from media pressure and PR. If they're not likely to get better wages elsewhere, then there doesn't seem like there's any natural economic drive for wages to go up. I'm not saying wage increases can't have a knock-on effect and further-reaching benefits, but if you work at McDonalds, you have to manage your expectations. Raising the wage to double is ludicrous. A wage increase a few dollars would probably be beneficial. Double? No.

Exactly, McDonalds has no reason to raise the minimum wage. No company does. Its why companies don't set the minimum wage.

And you keep talking about this like people working at McDonalds have choices, or have no costs. A ludicrous notion at the least. Besides, doubling their wages is literally raising it a few dollars. Its raising it by $7 bucks... I don't know anyone who considers themselves well off who doesn't think of something around $5 as a "a few bucks". Hell, if you raise it by 4, which is definitely a few bucks, its already more then a 50% increase. So your terms don't seem to match with your ideas.

[Lordieth]

It's exactly what would happen if McDonalds were forced into increasing the wage by this much. Personally, I think asking roughly double their wage is ridiculous. Unless the hope is to force McDonalds to compromise and raise it by a few dollars, in which case it may actually make McDonalds more competitive, than less.

If you don't like the pay, find another job. Nobody's forcing you to work at McDonalds. We all want a pay raise. Who wouldn't? There's reasonable demands, and then there's ridiculous, and for entry-level positions, I'm afraid this is erring on the ridiculous.

Entry-level position has NO meaning here. An entry-level engineering position is entirely different from entry-level in the services industry. And even managers working for McDonalds have trouble making ends meet. That's no by no means entry-level. This obsession over "entry-level" baffles me.

Regardless, low skilled workers can't simply leave their jobs for another one; they can barely survive on the job they currently have. Quitting, even for a week, would mean starving for that time, ASSUMING they could find another job, which is unlikely, because its a saturated market.

As for raising prices, why? Is McDonalds barely making a profit? Do they have no margin? Or are they making tons of money on the backs of workers who can barely afford to feed themselves? This idea that raising the wages would lead to a rise in prices assumes that the company maintains the same exact profit margin, which means they actually are exploiting their workers.

Companies answer to shareholders, not just consumers. Would McDonald's shareholders be happy with them absorbing the wage increase? Taking it from their profit margin. I don't think it's as economically straight as is being made out.

Is McDonalds' pay worse than any other similar job in the sector?

[Avenio]

No. Which makes it all the more poignant. What incentive does McDonalds have to raise the minimum wage?

...To end the strike and stop them from losing money? The idea is that the cost of significant numbers of their workers striking is, ideally, higher than the cost of the wage hikes. Given the option, therefore, McDonalds should take the lesser of the two evils and go for the pay hike. This is how strikes have worked for a hundred fifty years now.

Well, apart from media pressure and PR. If they're not likely to get better wages elsewhere, then there doesn't seem like there's any natural economic drive for wages to go up. I'm not saying wage increases can't have a knock-on effect and further-reaching benefits, but if you work at McDonalds, you have to manage your expectations. Raising the wage to double is ludicrous. A wage increase by a few dollars would probably be beneficial. Double? No. Sets a bad precedent, and forcing industries to pay more than a job is worth doesn't sound economical at all.

Is the work itself $15 an hour? Are they being grossly underpaid for an entry-level job? If so, then maybe I'd be willing to change my mind.

The idea is that every worker deserves a living wage - why should the McDonalds workers settle for half-measures? Do they not deserve to be able to live above the poverty line?

[Greed and Death]

I see it more as benefiting one region of the country ( The North East and West coast, at the expense of other regions of the country the South and Midwest).

Benefiting?? Explain.

It is best if I use an example. Boeing is moving at least in part to South Carolina from Washington State. Why ? The cost of living is lower it allows Boeing to pay engineers 10,000 a year less and these engineers will have higher standards of living in South Carolina. Now they also get a less unionized workforce and a cheaper manufacturing labor cost but that is icing on the cake the big deal is paying the engineers less.

Now comes how Washington State benefits, they have a minimum wage of 9.00 dollars hr already so instead of a 30% minimum wage hike it is a 10% hike. And, instead of a 10% raise in the cost of living, it is a 3% raise in cost of living. The engineers are going to demand a pay raise equal to the cost of living. The ones in South Carolina will demand 10%, the ones in Washington will demand 3%. If the difference is 50,000 and 60,000 it will become 55,000 and 61,800. A 10,000 gap in engineer pay has shrank 7,000. Boeing may decide a 7,000 dollar gap is not worth the upfront cost of moving parts of its business to South Carolina.

Washington benefits because business would not be less likely to lower cost areas elsewhere.

The solution of course is simple let the states and cities with higher cost of living raise their minimum wages. And you know what they can and already do that.

[Enadail]

Entry-level position has NO meaning here. An entry-level engineering position is entirely different from entry-level in the services industry. And even managers working for McDonalds have trouble making ends meet. That's no by no means entry-level. This obsession over "entry-level" baffles me.

Regardless, low skilled workers can't simply leave their jobs for another one; they can barely survive on the job they currently have. Quitting, even for a week, would mean starving for that time, ASSUMING they could find another job, which is unlikely, because its a saturated market.

As for raising prices, why? Is McDonalds barely making a profit? Do they have no margin? Or are they making tons of money on the backs of workers who can barely afford to feed themselves? This idea that raising the wages would lead to a rise in prices assumes that the company maintains the same exact profit margin, which means they actually are exploiting their workers.

Companies answer to shareholders, not just consumers. Would McDonald's shareholders be happy with them absorbing the wage increase? Taking it from their profit margin. I don't think it's as economically straight as is being made out.

Is McDonalds' pay worse than any other similar job in the sector?

And this the root of the problem: companies, specially those with saturated work forces, have NO incentive to actually treat their workers as human. Its why the government sets the minimum wage, because companies, had they the choice, would just pay enough so their workers could stay alive. Hell, McDonalds already does this and ADMITS it. They know their workers can't get by on their wages; their own budget recommends getting a second job to make ends meet.

Frankly, I care more about people then I do companies, because a lot of these large multinational literally do work on greed. I can't image a CEO is doing literally 1000x the work a line cook is, yet they're getting paid in that range. You want me to give a damn about the company and its shareholders? Then the company better give a damn about its employees, because a CEO isn't getting anywhere without the workers actually doing work.

[Lordieth]

No. Which makes it was all the more poignant. What incentive does McDonalds have to raise the minimum wage? Well, apart from media pressure and PR. If they're not likely to get better wages elsewhere, then there doesn't seem like there's any natural economic drive for wages to go up. I'm not saying wage increases can't have a knock-on effect and further-reaching benefits, but if you work at McDonalds, you have to manage your expectations. Raising the wage to double is ludicrous. A wage increase a few dollars would probably be beneficial. Double? No.

Exactly, McDonalds has no reason to raise the minimum wage. No company does. Its why companies don't set the minimum wage.

And you keep talking about this like people working at McDonalds have choices, or have no costs. A ludicrous notion at the least. Besides, doubling their wages is literally raising it a few dollars. Its raising it by $7 bucks... I don't know anyone who considers themselves well off who doesn't think of something around $5 as a "a few bucks". Hell, if you raise it by 4, which is definitely a few bucks, its already more then a 50% increase. So your terms don't seem to match with your ideas.

Last time I checked, 15 dollars was double that of 7.5. Unless I got the math completely wrong. "a few bucks" is meaningless. We're talking about doubling of a salary. That is what's ludicrous. If they were asking for a raise to 9, or even 10 dollars, then you could say "a few bucks".

They people who work at McDonalds always have a choice. I never said the choice was "another job". It seems the problem isn't that McDonalds are paying too little, it's that the market is so monopolised that there isn't enough local competition to compete on wages. I don't think forcing McDonalds to double the salary of workers is at all beneficial.

Gradual wage increases are beneficial to the market. I'm not against their wages going up. It's the doubling which doesn't add up.

[Grenartia]

Putting us right back at square one.

It's exactly what would happen if McDonalds were forced into increasing the wage by this much. Personally, I think asking roughly double their wage is ridiculous. 1. Unless the hope is to force McDonalds to compromise and raise it by a few dollars, in which case it may actually make McDonalds more competitive, than less.

2. If you don't like the pay, find another job. 3. Nobody's forcing you to work at McDonalds. We all want a pay raise. Who wouldn't? There's reasonable demands, and then there's ridiculous, and 4. for entry-level positions, I'm afraid this is erring on the ridiculous.

1. That's EXACTLY what they're doing, as has been stated multiple times in this thread. Its negotiation 101 that you always start out demanding more than you want, so you can negotiate down and appear reasonable.

2.

If you don't like the pay, find another job. Nobody's forcing you to work at McDonalds.

You really think the people working at McDonalds' for their primary income source have the luxury to shop around for better wages?

3. When McDonalds is the only one hiring, you've pretty much gotta take it. So yes, in a sense, people ARE being forced to work there.

4. I believe somebody else has already explained how "Mc fry cook" or "Mc janitor" are not entry-level positions.

I see it more as benefiting one region of the country ( The North East and West coast, at the expense of other regions of the country the South and Midwest).

Well that's easy: tie the minimum wage to local PPP.

Isn't that what I just said?

It's exactly what would happen if McDonalds were forced into increasing the wage by this much. Personally, I think asking roughly double their wage is ridiculous. Unless the hope is to force McDonalds to compromise and raise it by a few dollars, in which case it may actually make McDonalds more competitive, than less.

If you don't like the pay, find another job. Nobody's forcing you to work at McDonalds. We all want a pay raise. Who wouldn't? There's reasonable demands, and then there's ridiculous, and for entry-level positions, I'm afraid this is erring on the ridiculous.

Entry-level position has NO meaning here. An entry-level engineering position is entirely different from entry-level in the services industry. And even managers working for McDonalds have trouble making ends meet. That's no by no means entry-level. This obsession over "entry-level" baffles me.

Regardless, low skilled workers can't simply leave their jobs for another one; they can barely survive on the job they currently have. Quitting, even for a week, would mean starving for that time, ASSUMING they could find another job, which is unlikely, because its a saturated market.

As for raising prices, why? Is McDonalds barely making a profit? Do they have no margin? Or are they making tons of money on the backs of workers who can barely afford to feed themselves? This idea that raising the wages would lead to a rise in prices assumes that the company maintains the same exact profit margin, which means they actually are exploiting their workers.

This. So much.

[European Socialist Republic]

Exactly, McDonalds has no reason to raise the minimum wage. No company does. Its why companies don't set the minimum wage.

And you keep talking about this like people working at McDonalds have choices, or have no costs. A ludicrous notion at the least. Besides, doubling their wages is literally raising it a few dollars. Its raising it by $7 bucks... I don't know anyone who considers themselves well off who doesn't think of something around $5 as a "a few bucks". Hell, if you raise it by 4, which is definitely a few bucks, its already more then a 50% increase. So your terms don't seem to match with your ideas.

Last time I checked, 15 dollars was double that of 7.5. Unless I got the math completely wrong. "a few bucks" is meaningless. We're talking about doubling of a salary. That is what's ludicrous. If they were asking for a raise to 9, or even 10 dollars, then you could say "a few bucks".

$2 is the double of $1. Would it be ludicrous to increase a salary of $1 to $2?

[Lordieth]

It's exactly what would happen if McDonalds were forced into increasing the wage by this much. Personally, I think asking roughly double their wage is ridiculous. 1. Unless the hope is to force McDonalds to compromise and raise it by a few dollars, in which case it may actually make McDonalds more competitive, than less.

2. If you don't like the pay, find another job. 3. Nobody's forcing you to work at McDonalds. We all want a pay raise. Who wouldn't? There's reasonable demands, and then there's ridiculous, and 4. for entry-level positions, I'm afraid this is erring on the ridiculous.

1. That's EXACTLY what they're doing, as has been stated multiple times in this thread. Its negotiation 101 that you always start out demanding more than you want, so you can negotiate down and appear reasonable.

Then why argue with me? I'm in total favour of that. I clearly stated originally that my issue was with the doubling of the wage. Not the wage going up.

[Enadail]

Last time I checked, 15 dollars was double that of 7.5. Unless I got the math completely wrong. "a few bucks" is meaningless. We're talking about doubling of a salary. That is what's ludicrous. If they were asking for a raise to 9, or even 10 dollars, then you could say "a few bucks".

A few bucks and double are not mutually exclusive. 7 bucks is a few bucks. It is also half of 14. They are two separate scales.

They people who work at McDonalds always have a choice. I never said the choice was "another job". It seems the problem isn't that McDonalds are paying too little, it's that the market is so monopolised that there isn't enough local competition to compete on wages. I don't think forcing McDonalds to double the salary of workers is at all beneficial.

The other choice is what then... dying? I'm sorry, are you trying to convince me your position is correct?

And if the market is too monopolized, something that McDonalds and other companies like it have done (and its not monopolized, its cartel'ed), why should they not pay for it? Or do you think companies out-rank humans?

[Avenio]

They people who work at McDonalds always have a choice. I never said the choice was "another job".

That's really not much of a choice, since these people really don't have much in the way of options. Its either minimum wage or the soup kitchen.