The Mac Donald's Strike

[Llamalandia]

Economic growth doesn't hinge on the existence of human labor in the market. Have you forgotten about the automotive industry? It thrives without human labor. In fact, it grew to unprecedented heights the more autonomous the industry grew.

Ah, but without enough people working and earning pay to spend and stimulate the economy, you don't get economic growth.

1. I know you asserted that it wasn't a "living wage" and I'm suggesting that the current minimum wage is in fact a "living wage" not sure where the confusion came from here.

2.Which amount If you mean 1.25 a day yeah that's probably about true, but even making adjustments for ppp I'm sure that 7.50 an hour for an 8 hr day (48x that amount) is a sufficient amount (at least potentially). IF we're talking survival then this is urely plenty sufficient, I mean heck if you work at a fast food place you have cheap access to food right there.

3. Well yeah and that's why mcdonalds in it's much derided sample budget suggests a second job to make up for any shortfall. I mean if youre not working fulltime I don't see why you should be expecting that youre going to be making enough money to support yourself.

4. Calculating a tip really isn't that difficult. 5. I mean especially if were talking about large easy percentages like 100% for example that would be he easiest and accomplish about the same thing. 6. Also i don't think most people worry about tip calculation down to the penny as long as youre accurate in the dollar amount you should be good. 7. I really don't see it as being as problematic as you think, imean there's usually a few minutes wait time anyway between placing the order and picking up the food, maybe in the drive thru it would be an issue but heck with lcd screens they use now they could post a suggested tip to save time.

1. It can't be a "living wage" if you can't live off of it.

2. I was actually referring to $1.25, but $7.50 is still only the bare minimum for survival, for one person. Not to mention that when you work part time you work for LESS than 40hr/week.

3. You shouldn't HAVE to work a second job just to make ends meet. Especially when you have a fucking family and/or are attending college. And is it so fucking unreasonable to expect that when you put in a day's work at one job, EVEN if it is part time, you should be able to make ends meet?

4. Calculate an 18% tip for $9.67 right now. In your head, without a calculator. And time yourself.

5. 100%? Good, even MORE justification for DRASTIC wage cuts.

6. What about when the tip is less than a dollar? Do you just drive off?

7. Granted. Still, my other points stand.

1. According to the govt of the united states you can in fact live off minimum wage (assuming fulltime employment here) as the minimum wage puts a person above the poverty line.

2. Yeah, keep in mind i was talking about how international institutions define poverty globally, i mean people do in fact live off 1.25 per day, I think that even adjusting for cost of living that 7.50 per hour should be sufficient. and you should be working full time, no it's not reasonable to expect to get by with a part time (unless maybe youre at the very high end which mcdonalds obviously isn't). The answer to this part time objection is to not work only part time.

3. No but part time job plus part time job = full time jobe (yeah i know oversimplifying a bit but i think you know what i mean. Also you shouldn't have a family until you have a decent job with which to support it, is that such a horrible concept? as for college the real problem has been the enormous growth in tuition costs which are outpacing much of the rest of the economy.

4. Like i said, i'm not worried about perfect exact ness here but it's about $1.74 and that took about 4 minutes, not super fast but not interminably long either. That said as I stated exactness isn't paramount here.

5. well it wouldn't be a cut it just wouldn't be much of an increase either. I mean all revenue comes from sales right, if your tip=sales price of the item then by extension as long as everyone tips then even if the owner paid $0.00 the person behind the register would still end up making more then 7.50 an hour.

6. No, i'm not a jerk i round up always to the nearest dollar, so a 10 cent tip becomes a $1 tip, a 4.10 tip becomes a 5 dollar tip.

[Grenartia]

Ah, but without enough people working and earning pay to spend and stimulate the economy, you don't get economic growth.



1. It can't be a "living wage" if you can't live off of it.

2. I was actually referring to $1.25, but $7.50 is still only the bare minimum for survival, for one person. Not to mention that when you work part time you work for LESS than 40hr/week.

3. You shouldn't HAVE to work a second job just to make ends meet. Especially when you have a fucking family and/or are attending college. And is it so fucking unreasonable to expect that when you put in a day's work at one job, EVEN if it is part time, you should be able to make ends meet?

4. Calculate an 18% tip for $9.67 right now. In your head, without a calculator. And time yourself.

5. 100%? Good, even MORE justification for DRASTIC wage cuts.

6. What about when the tip is less than a dollar? Do you just drive off?

7. Granted. Still, my other points stand.

1. According to the govt of the united states you can in fact live off minimum wage (assuming fulltime employment here) as the minimum wage puts a person above the poverty line.

2. Yeah, keep in mind i was talking about how international institutions define poverty globally, i mean people do in fact live off 1.25 per day, I think that even adjusting for cost of living that 7.50 per hour should be sufficient. and you should be working full time, no it's not reasonable to expect to get by with a part time (unless maybe youre at the very high end which mcdonalds obviously isn't). The answer to this part time objection is to not work only part time.

3A. No but part time job plus part time job = full time jobe (yeah i know oversimplifying a bit but i think you know what i mean. 3B. Also you shouldn't have a family until you have a decent job with which to support it, is that such a horrible concept? 3C. as for college the real problem has been the enormous growth in tuition costs which are outpacing much of the rest of the economy.

4. Like i said, i'm not worried about perfect exact ness here but it's about $1.74 and that took about 4 minutes, not super fast but not interminably long either. That said as I stated exactness isn't paramount here.

5. well it wouldn't be a cut it just wouldn't be much of an increase either. I mean all revenue comes from sales right, if your tip=sales price of the item then by extension as long as everyone tips then even if the owner paid $0.00 the person behind the register would still end up making more then 7.50 an hour.

6. No, i'm not a jerk i round up always to the nearest dollar, so a 10 cent tip becomes a $1 tip, a 4.10 tip becomes a 5 dollar tip.

1. Again, most people who get minimum wage don't work full time.

2. I was and still am aware of what you were talking about. Also, telling somebody that if they can't live off of a part time job, they should take a full time one is like telling a starving child to eat more food. Its completely ignorant of the facts and reality of the situation. The simple fact is, the people who are wage slaves to companies like Walmart and McDonalds CAN'T get full time jobs, or else they would've already gotten them.

3A. You shouldn't have to work two jobs just to survive, if for no other reason than general principle. To say nothing of the fact that working two jobs arguably increases wear and tear on one's car and gas expenditures, as well as increasing stress.

3B. What about unplanned children? What about people who had steady, decent-paying jobs when they had kids, but then whose careers went down the toilet? Its not as fucking simple as you think it is.

3C. Exactly. But it was still fucking expensive to begin with.

4. Granted, but still. Without a "suggested tip" listing, or a tip percentage table, its going to hold up the process.

5. Problem is, not everybody tips, and when business is down, you don't get tips at all. Seeing as how without tips, waiters get about $2-3 an hour, I fail to see the benefit.

6. Gotcha.

[Llamalandia]

1. According to the govt of the united states you can in fact live off minimum wage (assuming fulltime employment here) as the minimum wage puts a person above the poverty line.

2. Yeah, keep in mind i was talking about how international institutions define poverty globally, i mean people do in fact live off 1.25 per day, I think that even adjusting for cost of living that 7.50 per hour should be sufficient. and you should be working full time, no it's not reasonable to expect to get by with a part time (unless maybe youre at the very high end which mcdonalds obviously isn't). The answer to this part time objection is to not work only part time.

3A. No but part time job plus part time job = full time jobe (yeah i know oversimplifying a bit but i think you know what i mean. 3B. Also you shouldn't have a family until you have a decent job with which to support it, is that such a horrible concept? 3C. as for college the real problem has been the enormous growth in tuition costs which are outpacing much of the rest of the economy.

4. Like i said, i'm not worried about perfect exact ness here but it's about $1.74 and that took about 4 minutes, not super fast but not interminably long either. That said as I stated exactness isn't paramount here.

5. well it wouldn't be a cut it just wouldn't be much of an increase either. I mean all revenue comes from sales right, if your tip=sales price of the item then by extension as long as everyone tips then even if the owner paid $0.00 the person behind the register would still end up making more then 7.50 an hour.

6. No, i'm not a jerk i round up always to the nearest dollar, so a 10 cent tip becomes a $1 tip, a 4.10 tip becomes a 5 dollar tip.

1. Again, most people who get minimum wage don't work full time.

2. I was and still am aware of what you were talking about. Also, telling somebody that if they can't live off of a part time job, they should take a full time one is like telling a starving child to eat more food. Its completely ignorant of the facts and reality of the situation. The simple fact is, the people who are wage slaves to companies like Walmart and McDonalds CAN'T get full time jobs, or else they would've already gotten them.

3A. You shouldn't have to work two jobs just to survive, if for no other reason than general principle. To say nothing of the fact that working two jobs arguably increases wear and tear on one's car and gas expenditures, as well as increasing stress.

3B. What about unplanned children? What about people who had steady, decent-paying jobs when they had kids, but then whose careers went down the toilet? Its not as fucking simple as you think it is.

3C. Exactly. But it was still fucking expensive to begin with.

4. Granted, but still. Without a "suggested tip" listing, or a tip percentage table, its going to hold up the process.

5. Problem is, not everybody tips, and when business is down, you don't get tips at all. Seeing as how without tips, waiters get about $2-3 an hour, I fail to see the benefit.

6. Gotcha.

1. again they should be working full time. I mean why are people suggesting increases in the minimum wage which are likely to further increase unemployment and probably move more people from fulltime to part time status?
2.yeah ok fair point about wear tear stress isuppose, but I mean what are the alternatives. I mean essentially your saying that people who work part time should be paid enough to live and people who work full time should be paid 2x that (im assuming a part time job to be about half a full time one). Why?
3A. General principle? Really i mean i fail to see that principle as being universally shared. also what is the justification of the principle other then your own sense of moral superiority here?
3B. Yeah, don't have unplanned kids (yeah i know rape happens sometimes but were talking in general here) I mean it's a choice at the end of the day.
3C. Yeah, but i'm guessing people found it at least doable to work and go to school at the same time even at minimum wage (doable by no means easy), besides isn't this the reason for scholarships and govt aid and loans?
4. Yeah like i said though keep it simple say like 100% that's about the simplest calculation you'll get. If you don't like the service then just don't tip. Round everything up, i mean it's just not that difficult, not saying it would slow things a little but really i've almost never waited in line myself for more than maybe 5 ten minutes tops at a fast food place (haven't eat at one for a while though i admit).
5. yeah, but i'm guessing genrally most people tip if they were happy with the service (unless they truly can't afford it, in which case they wouldn't have eaten at the place to begin with if the additional costs are factored into food prices. But yeah are there a few jerks in the world who jusst never tip sure, but i'm guessing given the huge volume these places do that actually tipping would work better here and average out to even greater degree then it does in formal dining.

[New England and The Maritimes]

Yet the value it contributed to society fell exponentially. Michigan and Ohio stopped being thriving service markets a long time ago regardless of profit numbers posted, because the human labor component shrank and the amount of value going back into communities from this work dropped off a cliff. In that sense, the "growth" was meaningless. It made a negligible contribution while society became worse off.

Nonsense. Society prospered as Michigan and Ohio were bypassed in favor of better auto manufacturers. Better constituting fewer unions, higher automation, better quality, etc etc. While that particular industry in Michigan and Ohio (and the people associated with them) suffered, society itself prospered.

Show me where that prosperity went within our society, then. Let's see it. Who, in America, was doing better after the economy was gutted? A few thousand people, while millions are doing worse to this day.

[Jagalonia]

That's no excuse, and it CERTAINLY doesn't justify $15.00/hr wages.

Just because I'm not buying at a top-fucking-shelf steakhouse is no excuse for my order, which was clearly stated and clearly repeated back to me, and clearly written on both the receipt I was given at the register and the receipt I was given with the food, to be completely and utterly not what I actually paid money for.

Example:
Ordered: plain cheeseburger.
Received: Chicken Sandwich with Mayonnaise, Ketchup, pickle and God knows what else.

While this is the most extreme example that has personally happened to me, when I order a burger with Bread, meat and cheese only, I should get Bread, Meat and Cheese ONLY. No matter WHERE I order it from. The fact that there are several restaurants that have blown their third chances (no one's perfect, and I'll forgive the first time, overlook the second and on the third time, I WILL stop going to that location.)

As Gauthier so humorously pointed out:

If I got paid $15.00/hr I'd make every single cheeseburger into a goddamn filet mignon.

Perhaps, if these employees were making a living fucking wage, they'd have more incentive to get your order right.

That could be true, if the majority of the workers weren't in high school/high school dropouts. They get a wage that matches their level of education and training, which is none, as far as an employer would be concerned.

[Occupied Deutschland]

Nonsense. Society prospered as Michigan and Ohio were bypassed in favor of better auto manufacturers. Better constituting fewer unions, higher automation, better quality, etc etc. While that particular industry in Michigan and Ohio (and the people associated with them) suffered, society itself prospered.

Show me where that prosperity went within our society, then. Let's see it. Who, in America, was doing better after the economy was gutted? A few thousand people, while millions are doing worse to this day.

Everyone who bought a Toyota Camry, Hyundai Sonata, KIA, or any other number of better alternatives that were cheaper than those provided in/from the Michigan-Ohio area.

[New England and The Maritimes]

Show me where that prosperity went within our society, then. Let's see it. Who, in America, was doing better after the economy was gutted? A few thousand people, while millions are doing worse to this day.

Everyone who bought a Toyota Camry, Hyundai Sonata, KIA, or any other number of better alternatives that were cheaper than those provided in/from the Michigan-Ohio area.

So a few grand for a few families equals the complete devastation of others?

[Occupied Deutschland]

Everyone who bought a Toyota Camry, Hyundai Sonata, KIA, or any other number of better alternatives that were cheaper than those provided in/from the Michigan-Ohio area.

So a few grand for a few families equals the complete devastation of others?

Seeing as how those vehicles were immensely popular, cheaper than 'domestic' competition from the companies in Michigan-Ohio, and earned better safety records and driving performance reviews it's quite more than 'a few grand for a few families'.

In fact, seeing as those vehicles are actually predominantly built in the US nowadays, it was probably many grand for many families.

[Distruzio]

So a few grand for a few families equals the complete devastation of others?

Seeing as how those vehicles were immensely popular, cheaper than 'domestic' competition from the companies in Michigan-Ohio, and earned better safety records and driving performance reviews it's quite more than 'a few grand for a few families'.

In fact, seeing as those vehicles are actually predominantly built in the US nowadays, it was probably many grand for many families.

But mah autarky!!! Mah nationalism! Mah fearmongering!

[Fireye]

Bullshit.

Pure, unadulterated Bullshit.

Work ethic doesn't flow from how much you're making. Anyone who says otherwise is kidding themselves.

Al that will happen is that they'll be paid twice as much to fuck up my order. Gauthier's post is funny, but has no bearing on anything.

Source.

You made the claim that they'll work better with higher wages. Burden of proof's on you.

[Gauthier]

Source.

You made the claim that they'll work better with higher wages. Burden of proof's on you.

Costco. In-And-Out Burger. Clearly they're full of slackers.

[Fireye]

You made the claim that they'll work better with higher wages. Burden of proof's on you.

Costco. In-And-Out Burger. Clearly they're full of slackers.

Anecdotes are not evidence.

Anecdotes are not proof/

[Gauthier]

Costco. In-And-Out Burger. Clearly they're full of slackers.

Anecdotes are not evidence.

Anecdotes are not proof/

I love how two major companies that are gaining in profits despite or because they pay high salaries to employees can be easily dismissed with "ANEKDOT!! ANEKDOT!! DOS NOT CONT!!"

[Shallowell]

No, that's a bad idea. Flipping burgers is not worth $15/hr.

[Grantica]

Ha, if they can get it, I guess good for them. Otherwise, their work isn't worth that much.

Actually, the whole thing is absurd. Do they want to be replaced by robots?

http://news.cnet.com/mcdonalds-hires-70 ... 732-1.html

Oh wait, MickeyD's is already headed that route in Europe.

When robots become cheaper than demanding low-level employees... Why hire low-level employees?

[The Corparation]

No, that's a bad idea. Flipping burgers is not worth $15/hr.

They're asking for 15. They'll probably settle for less. And In-and-Out with its starting wage of 10 dollars an hour before you even get a promotion to flip anything related to burgers disagrees

[Blasveck]

Ha, if they can get it, I guess good for them. Otherwise, their work isn't worth that much.

Actually, the whole thing is absurd. Do they want to be replaced by robots?

http://news.cnet.com/mcdonalds-hires-70 ... 732-1.html

Oh wait, MickeyD's is already headed that route in Europe.

When robots become cheaper than demanding low-level employees... Why hire low-level employees?

Because people aren't robots?

I coulda sworn I've heard somewhere where service was automated, and no human interaction was involved.

It didn't go well.

[Grantica]

Everyone who bought a Toyota Camry, Hyundai Sonata, KIA, or any other number of better alternatives that were cheaper than those provided in/from the Michigan-Ohio area.

So a few grand for a few families equals the complete devastation of others?

It's not like a few thousand consumers not buying $25,000 cars from inefficient American sources can destroy the jobs of millions.

Few thousand cars does not equal a few million jobs.

It happened for a reason. And the unions, I suspect, had something to do with it.

Either that or genius Koreans and Japanese....

[Grantica]

Ha, if they can get it, I guess good for them. Otherwise, their work isn't worth that much.

Actually, the whole thing is absurd. Do they want to be replaced by robots?

http://news.cnet.com/mcdonalds-hires-70 ... 732-1.html

Oh wait, MickeyD's is already headed that route in Europe.

When robots become cheaper than demanding low-level employees... Why hire low-level employees?

Because people aren't robots?

I coulda sworn I've heard somewhere where service was automated, and no human interaction was involved.

It didn't go well.

Car washes? Vending machines? Internet shopping?

We totally need those cashiers.

[Blasveck]

Because people aren't robots?

I coulda sworn I've heard somewhere where service was automated, and no human interaction was involved.

It didn't go well.

Car washes? Vending machines? Internet shopping?

We totally need those cashiers.

Hey, that's all I've heard.

I don't know if it is true or not.

[Katganistan]

What's your opinion, OP?

15 is a lot for just handing out burgers (no offense, have to do what you have to do), I guess if you work there a while a pay raise should be a question but 15 is kinda high

Sure.
And risk horrible burns at the french fry station...
And take shite from customers....
And stink of fried foods
and having to deal with complicated orders and people who change their minds....

It's just a WONDERFUL job. So easy....

Did I mention I knew a manager who got murdered by robbers in a McDonalds? No?

Yeah. It's just handing out burgers.

[Grantica]

Car washes? Vending machines? Internet shopping?

We totally need those cashiers.

Hey, that's all I've heard.

I don't know if it is true or not.

Well, sure, robot revolutions can obviously go wrong. Automated service can be terrible. But hey, so can service with real people (see: terrible McDonald's franchises).

So as long as McD's does it right, I think it can be done. And with rising minimum wages... I can't blame them.

Besides, I think it would be fun to order my cheeseburger from a machine.

[Katganistan]

All 15

Sure, why not. I mean they might have some losses, and might increase pricing, but losing costumers? No.

What kinds of costumes? Naughty Nurse and Lechy Priest?

[Katganistan]

Thats What Happens when you dont go to School

That's what happens when you don't go to school.

[Katganistan]

Fixed that for you.

America has free primary and secondary education...

Unless nowadays Americans also refer to universities as schools...

And used to offer free college educations. Imagine that.