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Miley Cyrus VMA performance and modern views on sex and race

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Gauthier
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Postby Gauthier » Wed Sep 04, 2013 6:42 am

Ifreann wrote:
Calimera II wrote:
What an excellent observation!

In fact it is, as it rather neatly refutes your assertion that nobody cares. Obviously people do care. You can tell because we've been talking about it for 35 pages. If nobody cared then the thread wouldn't have been posted in the first place. There wouldn't even be a news story.


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Des-Bal
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Postby Des-Bal » Wed Sep 04, 2013 6:45 am

She looked disgusting, you don't need to buy the rights to do a black dance, and this would flow better if I had a third thing.
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Lenninists
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Postby Lenninists » Wed Sep 04, 2013 6:49 am

I thought the performance was HAWT, and I can't blame her for trying to appeal to an older(more Pervy) group of people.
I'm a centrist... now you know why im so uncomfortable on this forum.

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Des-Bal
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Postby Des-Bal » Wed Sep 04, 2013 6:54 am

Lenninists wrote:I thought the performance was HAWT, and I can't blame her for trying to appeal to an older(more Pervy) group of people.


Seriously? She looked disgusting. I'm not saying that because acknowledging a woman looks attractive is a manifestation of privilege and objectification I'm saying that because between the hair the weird plastic bikini and that goddamned costume I had no interest in her. If she jumped out of a cake at a bachelor party I would assume it was a cruel joke on the groom.
Cekoviu wrote:DES-BAL: Introverted, blunt, focused, utilitarian. Hard to read; not verbose online or likely in real life. Places little emphasis on interpersonal relationships, particularly with online strangers for whom the investment would outweigh the returns.
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Lenninists
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Postby Lenninists » Wed Sep 04, 2013 6:55 am

No one ever reads the signatures on these sites.
I'm a centrist... now you know why im so uncomfortable on this forum.

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The Rich Port
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Postby The Rich Port » Wed Sep 04, 2013 6:57 am

Bottle wrote:
Ifreann wrote:How so?

A young, conventionally attractive, white woman dressed in skimpy clothing for the purpose of selling a product? Tre controversial!


Actually, I think that's EXACTLY what she was trying to do.

She was trying to be controversial, but not TOO controversial; that would scare too many people to make money/be popular.

She wanted to get prudes and morons to talk about how controversial she is; those are, after all, the ones that have the most money, either in their possession or throwing it at stuff.

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Des-Bal
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Postby Des-Bal » Wed Sep 04, 2013 6:58 am

Lenninists wrote:No one ever reads the signatures on these sites.


In all fairness most signatures don't say
"DON'T RESPOND TO ME I JUST LIKE TO HEAR MYSELF TALK"
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Nazis in Space
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Postby Nazis in Space » Wed Sep 04, 2013 6:59 am

The Rich Port wrote:
Bottle wrote:A young, conventionally attractive, white woman dressed in skimpy clothing for the purpose of selling a product? Tre controversial!


Actually, I think that's EXACTLY what she was trying to do.

She was trying to be controversial, but not TOO controversial; that would scare too many people to make money/be popular.

She wanted to get prudes and morons to talk about how controversial she is; those are, after all, the ones that have the most money, either in their possession or throwing it at stuff.
That is possible.

It is, however, far from being a certainty, given her social environment, as well as the industry standards as-is.

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The Rich Port
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Postby The Rich Port » Wed Sep 04, 2013 7:00 am

Nazis in Space wrote:
The Rich Port wrote:
Actually, I think that's EXACTLY what she was trying to do.

She was trying to be controversial, but not TOO controversial; that would scare too many people to make money/be popular.

She wanted to get prudes and morons to talk about how controversial she is; those are, after all, the ones that have the most money, either in their possession or throwing it at stuff.
That is possible.

It is, however, far from being a certainty, given her social environment, as well as the industry standards as-is.


... Actually, now that I remember, didn't she come out recently saying she did this because "she wantd to make history" and "make people talk about [her]"?

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Gauthier
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Postby Gauthier » Wed Sep 04, 2013 7:01 am

The Rich Port wrote:
Nazis in Space wrote:That is possible.

It is, however, far from being a certainty, given her social environment, as well as the industry standards as-is.


... Actually, now that I remember, didn't she come out recently saying she did this because "she wantd to make history" and "make people talk about [her]"?


All she's doing is burning up her 15 Minutes.
Crimes committed by Muslims will be a pan-Islamic plot and proof of Islam's inherent evil. On the other hand crimes committed by non-Muslims will merely be the acts of loners who do not represent their belief system at all.
The probability of one's participation in homosexual acts is directly proportional to one's public disdain and disgust for homosexuals.
If a political figure makes an accusation of wrongdoing without evidence, odds are probable that the accuser or an associate thereof has in fact committed the very same act, possibly to a worse degree.
Where is your God-Emperor now?

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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Wed Sep 04, 2013 7:01 am

Lenninists wrote:No one ever reads the signatures on these sites.

I'd like to state for the record that I have never seen an idea quite so spectacular as stating every time you post that you're breaking the rules of this website.

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Lenninists
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Postby Lenninists » Wed Sep 04, 2013 7:28 am

Since this thread is derailing a bit I would like to say that completely seriously I though the performance was genuinely entertaining and I can't blame an artist for trying to embrace a sex filled industry, she can't make kiddie movies on Disney channel for forever.
I'm a centrist... now you know why im so uncomfortable on this forum.

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The Rich Port
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Postby The Rich Port » Wed Sep 04, 2013 10:27 am


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Hurdegaryp
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Postby Hurdegaryp » Wed Sep 04, 2013 10:30 am

Gauthier wrote:
The Rich Port wrote:... Actually, now that I remember, didn't she come out recently saying she did this because "she wantd to make history" and "make people talk about [her]"?

All she's doing is burning up her 15 Minutes.

Maybe, maybe not. Pop culture is a fickle mistress, after all.
CVT Temp wrote:I mean, we can actually create a mathematical definition for evolution in terms of the evolutionary algorithm and then write code to deal with abstract instances of evolution, which basically equates to mathematical proof that evolution works. All that remains is to show that biological systems replicate in such a way as to satisfy the minimal criteria required for evolution to apply to them, something which has already been adequately shown time and again. At this point, we've pretty much proven that not only can evolution happen, it pretty much must happen since it's basically impossible to prevent it from happening.

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Greed and Death
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Postby Greed and Death » Wed Sep 04, 2013 10:40 am

Hurdegaryp wrote:
Gauthier wrote:All she's doing is burning up her 15 Minutes.

Maybe, maybe not. Pop culture is a fickle mistress, after all.

Yeah if she ends up out of the light I see a leaked porn video.
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The Rich Port
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Postby The Rich Port » Wed Sep 04, 2013 11:01 am

greed and death wrote:
Hurdegaryp wrote:Maybe, maybe not. Pop culture is a fickle mistress, after all.

Yeah if she ends up out of the light I see a leaked porn video.


So, I guess her career going nuclear isn't a total loss for everyone involved. :lol:

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Northern Dominus
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Postby Northern Dominus » Wed Sep 04, 2013 11:10 am

The Rich Port wrote:
greed and death wrote:Yeah if she ends up out of the light I see a leaked porn video.


So, I guess her career going nuclear isn't a total loss for everyone involved. :lol:
Has her career gone nuclear? As I understand it pre-orders for her upcoming album shot up after her performance, enough to pass Katy Perry (who had a much tighter performance IMO) and her latest single apparently recorded 90,000 new downloads along with the social media bump, so by what measure is her career "going under"?

http://www.entertainmentwise.com/news/1 ... -Downloads
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Galborg
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Postby Galborg » Wed Sep 04, 2013 12:45 pm

Jazz, Rock, Pop, Reggae, Ska etc started as Black music.
Then they let Whites listen to it.
Then they let Whites perform it.

Now??? of all times, Eebil Libruhls whinge that it is inappropriate for Whites to appropriate Black culture.
Hey, appropriating is the most appropriate thing you can do.
Last edited by Galborg on Wed Sep 04, 2013 3:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Wed Sep 04, 2013 1:06 pm

Galborg wrote:Jazz, Rock, Pop, Reggae etc started as Black music.
Then they let Whites listen to it.
Then they let Whites perform it.

Now??? of all times, Eebil Libruhls whinge that it is inappropriate for Whites to appropriate Black culture.
Hey, appropriating is the most appropriate thing you can do.

Cannot think of a name wrote:The issue of cultural appropriation in this context is an old one and in so much this is not the most grievous example but merely enough to be able to continue the conversation.

Page 3 of this thread.

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Lordieth
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Postby Lordieth » Wed Sep 04, 2013 1:11 pm

All singers should have their talent level measured by how long it is until they start featuring in Pitbull songs.

I give Miley 3 years. Maybe 4.
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Tahar Joblis
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Postby Tahar Joblis » Wed Sep 04, 2013 3:01 pm

Bottle wrote:Yes, women are often used as token enforcers. No, this does not mean they are the origin of these tropes, nor that they are the only ones to be blamed for them. The way that men and women express sexism may differ, but we're all swimming in the same sexist soup of a culture.

Sorry guys, you're not off the hook. Nobody is (including me!).

Women are not "token" enforcers. Women are the principal enforcers of gendered norms.
Bottle wrote:A young, conventionally attractive, white woman dressed in skimpy clothing for the purpose of selling a product? Tre controversial!

Well, it shouldn't be, but evidently that got enough people worked up to stir up controversy. :palm:

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Hurdegaryp
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Postby Hurdegaryp » Wed Sep 04, 2013 3:30 pm

greed and death wrote:
Hurdegaryp wrote:Maybe, maybe not. Pop culture is a fickle mistress, after all.

Yeah if she ends up out of the light I see a leaked porn video.

Nah, that's been done to death. If even Screech from Saved By The Bell has his own sex tape, you just know the hype is over. Dustin Diamond ruined it for everyone else, forever.
CVT Temp wrote:I mean, we can actually create a mathematical definition for evolution in terms of the evolutionary algorithm and then write code to deal with abstract instances of evolution, which basically equates to mathematical proof that evolution works. All that remains is to show that biological systems replicate in such a way as to satisfy the minimal criteria required for evolution to apply to them, something which has already been adequately shown time and again. At this point, we've pretty much proven that not only can evolution happen, it pretty much must happen since it's basically impossible to prevent it from happening.

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Northern Dominus
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Postby Northern Dominus » Thu Sep 05, 2013 4:37 am

Tahar Joblis wrote:
Bottle wrote:Yes, women are often used as token enforcers. No, this does not mean they are the origin of these tropes, nor that they are the only ones to be blamed for them. The way that men and women express sexism may differ, but we're all swimming in the same sexist soup of a culture.

Sorry guys, you're not off the hook. Nobody is (including me!).

Women are not "token" enforcers. Women are the principal enforcers of gendered norms.
Bottle wrote:A young, conventionally attractive, white woman dressed in skimpy clothing for the purpose of selling a product? Tre controversial!

Well, it shouldn't be, but evidently that got enough people worked up to stir up controversy. :palm:
Show us where specifically women are the "enforcers" of gendered norms? Especially when you have quite a few males in the talking head game doing a lot of the slut-shaming themselves.

Hurdegaryp wrote:
greed and death wrote:Yeah if she ends up out of the light I see a leaked porn video.

Nah, that's been done to death. If even Screech from Saved By The Bell has his own sex tape, you just know the hype is over. Dustin Diamond ruined it for everyone else, forever.
... is that a public admission that you've seen it?

And hey, if saying that he was Screech gets him laid in the first place, then sells sex tapes, who am I to argue or turn my nose up?
Battletech RP: Giant walking war machines, space to surface fighters, and other implements blowing things up= lots of fun! Sign up here
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The Rich Port
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Postby The Rich Port » Thu Sep 05, 2013 9:45 am

Northern Dominus wrote:
Tahar Joblis wrote:Women are not "token" enforcers. Women are the principal enforcers of gendered norms.

Well, it shouldn't be, but evidently that got enough people worked up to stir up controversy. :palm:
Show us where specifically women are the "enforcers" of gendered norms? Especially when you have quite a few males in the talking head game doing a lot of the slut-shaming themselves.

Hurdegaryp wrote:Nah, that's been done to death. If even Screech from Saved By The Bell has his own sex tape, you just know the hype is over. Dustin Diamond ruined it for everyone else, forever.
... is that a public admission that you've seen it?

And hey, if saying that he was Screech gets him laid in the first place, then sells sex tapes, who am I to argue or turn my nose up?


Screech's sex tape didn't sell because of the sex.

It sold because it was a train wreck.

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Tahar Joblis
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Postby Tahar Joblis » Thu Sep 05, 2013 8:52 pm

Northern Dominus wrote:
Tahar Joblis wrote:Women are not "token" enforcers. Women are the principal enforcers of gendered norms.

Well, it shouldn't be, but evidently that got enough people worked up to stir up controversy. :palm:
Show us where specifically women are the "enforcers" of gendered norms? Especially when you have quite a few males in the talking head game doing a lot of the slut-shaming themselves.

No, we don't have "quite a few males." We have a few of them. Most of those are getting pushback. If a male talking head engages in slut-shaming, he will get shat on for it, so not many of them do. The majority of those giving Miley Cyrus shit for being slutty on stage are women. I know "Mika" is sometimes a male name, so your confusion may be understood, but in this case, it isn't.

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