Miley Cyrus VMA performance and modern views on sex and race

[Northern Dominus]

Except the clarion call is RACISM!1!eleven!!!11!!!!!one!!1! is being peddled with the same sort of stading (see: lack of) as the SLUT!!!1!!!one!!!!1!!eleven11!!
card. It's the same sort of association fallacy that ignores that cross-pollination of pop culture.

Nazis in space said it best, so read it again:


So as NIS said, let's ask the dancers instead of the raging middle-class alabaster folks shall we?

Wait, did you just tell me it's okay because Ms. Cyrus has a black friend? Really?

No... but if that's the leap of logic you made then by all means run with it.

No, what I merely postulated was that Miley is doing what all pop acts do, in order to stay relavant and interesting; she cross-polinated genres. So if you're going to lambast Miley for doing "black" things and being white, then you'd better be just as willing to lambast Justin Timberlake for doing the same. I mean the guy has been throwing urban-influenced dance moves and illiteration into his music and live shows since the get-go.

Or you could stop being obtuse yourself.

[Aurora Novus]

Wait, are there seriously people complaining that Cyrus doing "black" things while being "white" is racist?

What?

[United Dependencies]

people watch the VMAs?

[Greed and Death]

people watch the VMAs?

Americans mostly, it is our Eurovision.

[SaintB]

I was more bothered by the teddy bears and how bad her voice sounded than her dancing. I work in radio and hear that song every day at work. The whole song is about doing drugs and twirking, I kind of expected it. It seems to me that people are offended by it more than of out was say lady ga ga because 'she used to be so famiky friendly'. She also used to be 12.

[Ifreann]

Not sure if this has been posted yet, but;

Miley Cyrus says she is "messed up".

The We Can't Stop hitmaker - who recently shocked fans with her racy performance at the MTV Video Music Awards last weekend - admitted she has "issues" and struggles taking much-needed breaks from work.

Speaking to the Sunday People newspaper, she said: "I'm messed up ... I have so many f***ing issues.

"I am so f***ed up - everyone does dumb stuff when they are messed up.

http://tvnz.co.nz/entertainment-news/mi ... up-5551746

Kind of reinforces the whole off-the-rails theory.

Yes, her saying that she has some kind of problem rather does suggest that she has some kind of problem. Rather more than her doing nothing at all out of the ordinary.

---

Oh, how about that.

And here I thought that having Robin Thicke dry-hump you was emotionally and intellectually healthy.

Only if you're his wife. Speaking of, I bet she loved watching this video.

She may well have. Paula Patton is an actress, so one imagines she understands that this is part of his job, given that she probably finds herself scripted to do love/sex scenes from time to time herself.

Or maybe not. I wouldn't know. Speculating seems to be popular, though.

[Greed and Death]

Not sure if this has been posted yet, but;

Miley Cyrus says she is "messed up".

The We Can't Stop hitmaker - who recently shocked fans with her racy performance at the MTV Video Music Awards last weekend - admitted she has "issues" and struggles taking much-needed breaks from work.

Speaking to the Sunday People newspaper, she said: "I'm messed up ... I have so many f***ing issues.

"I am so f***ed up - everyone does dumb stuff when they are messed up.

http://tvnz.co.nz/entertainment-news/mi ... up-5551746

Kind of reinforces the whole off-the-rails theory.

So she has gone full freak and I might be able to pick her up at a bar?!?!?!

I need 6 of you to be wing men and I will need Neo Art's and Max Berry's credit card. We are not leaving LA until I get a fling with Cyrus.

[Magna Libero]

Did Miley Cyrus actually do that for attention to relief her problems?

So, basically she wants to be popular, by being a some kind of an exhibitionist.

[Greed and Death]

Did Miley Cyrus actually do that for attention to relief her problems?

So, basically she wants to be popular, by being a some kind of an exhibitionist.

She is just doing normal pop girl stuff.

Though there are some racial issues she accidentally stumbled upon.

[Northern Dominus]

Did Miley Cyrus actually do that for attention to relief her problems?

So, basically she wants to be popular, by being a some kind of an exhibitionist.

She is just doing normal pop girl stuff.

Though there are some racial issues she accidentally stumbled upon.

Race issues raised by people looking for a sounding board rather than any legit complaint, and in full ignorance of the evolution and cross-polination of pop culture (in music and dance in this case) that began long before Miley ever performed one twerk.

[Llamalandia]

She is just doing normal pop girl stuff.

Though there are some racial issues she accidentally stumbled upon.

Race issues raised by people looking for a sounding board rather than any legit complaint, and in full ignorance of the evolution and cross-polination of pop culture (in music and dance in this case) that began long before Miley ever performed one twerk.

Yes this.

Besides Ihighly doubt ms cyrus is even smart enough to be so subtly racist in a performance. Keep in mind it's not like she was directly responsible for all the choreography and content of the on stage performance. Many others were far more responsible for the creative input (though i suppose she could have vetoed anyting she found offensive but really again do we really believe she smart enough to pick up on a racial subtext even it did exist?), lets criticize them for if you truly believe this was racist. Aagian i just think it was stupid and disgusting but that's just me.

[Cannot think of a name]

She is just doing normal pop girl stuff.

Though there are some racial issues she accidentally stumbled upon.

Race issues raised by people looking for a sounding board rather than any legit complaint, and in full ignorance of the evolution and cross-polination of pop culture (in music and dance in this case) that began long before Miley ever performed one twerk.

There's this sort of crazy irony that thinks this critique is done in ignorance of the history of appropriation and not instead actually part of the long historical narrative of the way in which this kind of cross pollination happened. It sort of underlines how ill equipped people are to have this conversation and the importance of bringing it up.

You essentially have both sides of the argument going, 'this happens all the time,' but one doesn't seem to understand the that's part of the problem.

It's like they figure "hey, the music of black people is largely accepted now, and it was never ever referred to as things like 'jungle music' or exoticised in the process, I am only aware of how things are now. All I need to know is that it happened, not how it happened. That's not important to me and I can't possibly see a historical pattern. Nope. No siree bob. It happened, ergo it's okay. No need to bother myself with how."

[George Kaplan]

Loved Will Smith and family's expression ^^

[Northern Dominus]

You essentially have both sides of the argument going, 'this happens all the time,' but one doesn't seem to understand the that's part of the problem.

So we've gone back to arguing that Miley was accidentally racist again?

Loved Will Smith and family's expression ^^

Which again wasn't directed at Miley and was taken way out of context... again:
http://www.slate.com/blogs/browbeat/201 ... _wasn.html

Fake smear/pseudo-slutshaming of Miley Cyrus is fake... again.

[Cannot think of a name]

You essentially have both sides of the argument going, 'this happens all the time,' but one doesn't seem to understand the that's part of the problem.

So we've gone back to arguing that Miley was accidentally racist again?

If you want to put it that way, but I've never in fact argued that it was a conscious act of racism and in fact have mocked this very notion. The very fact that you seem to think that's anyones argument is evidence you lack a fundamental understanding of the context in which these things happen.

[Llamalandia]

So we've gone back to arguing that Miley was accidentally racist again?

If you want to put it that way, but I've never in fact argued that it was a conscious act of racism and in fact have mocked this very notion. The very fact that you seem to think that's anyones argument is evidence you lack a fundamental understanding of the context in which these things happen.

Intentionality is necessary for a charge of racism. It's not like you can just be accidentally racist you have to mean it. Otherwise anytime you forgot to hold a door for some of a different race well you'd be an "accidental racist". I eman barring the use of slurs you don't understand or something and again that's not really racism because there is no intentionality behind it.

[Northern Dominus]

So we've gone back to arguing that Miley was accidentally racist again?

If you want to put it that way, but I've never in fact argued that it was a conscious act of racism and in fact have mocked this very notion. The very fact that you seem to think that's anyones argument is evidence you lack a fundamental understanding of the context in which these things happen.

I haven't seen a shred of evidence compelling me to accept that argument beyond personal outraged assertions that Miley Cyrus did something "insensitive" regarding race. Nobody "stole" anything, Twerking was on vine and youtube long before Miley ever inserted herself into the equation.

[George Kaplan]

You essentially have both sides of the argument going, 'this happens all the time,' but one doesn't seem to understand the that's part of the problem.

So we've gone back to arguing that Miley was accidentally racist again?

Loved Will Smith and family's expression ^^

Which again wasn't directed at Miley and was taken way out of context... again:
http://www.slate.com/blogs/browbeat/201 ... _wasn.html

Fake smear/pseudo-slutshaming of Miley Cyrus is fake... again.

Eh, whatever. It was still funny.

As to her performance, I found it to be kinda gross. She kinda lost that whole girl next door thing that she had going for awhile.

[Cannot think of a name]

If you want to put it that way, but I've never in fact argued that it was a conscious act of racism and in fact have mocked this very notion. The very fact that you seem to think that's anyones argument is evidence you lack a fundamental understanding of the context in which these things happen.

Intentionality is necessary for a charge of racism. It's not like you can just be accidentally racist you have to mean it. Otherwise anytime you forgot to hold a door for some of a different race well you'd be an "accidental racist". I eman barring the use of slurs you don't understand or something and again that's not really racism because there is no intentionality behind it.

If you have an extremely limited to the point of being deliberately absurd understanding of race and culture, sure. You need to understand the distance between a burning cross and the kinds of normalized racism that can and do exist in a society. Until you understand these differences you are unequipped for the conversation. The good news is that even in your ridiculous definition you see where the hole is, "barring the use of slurs you don't understand"...once you understand how that happens you begin to understand how one can think they are celebrating a culture while using age old tropes that have been used to exploit and otherize a culture.

[Cannot think of a name]

If you want to put it that way, but I've never in fact argued that it was a conscious act of racism and in fact have mocked this very notion. The very fact that you seem to think that's anyones argument is evidence you lack a fundamental understanding of the context in which these things happen.

I haven't seen a shred of evidence compelling me to accept that argument beyond personal outraged assertions that Miley Cyrus did something "insensitive" regarding race. Nobody "stole" anything, Twerking was on vine and youtube long before Miley ever inserted herself into the equation.

It lies deeply in the history you keep thinking excuses the whole thing.

[Northern Dominus]

So we've gone back to arguing that Miley was accidentally racist again?

Which again wasn't directed at Miley and was taken way out of context... again:
http://www.slate.com/blogs/browbeat/201 ... _wasn.html

Fake smear/pseudo-slutshaming of Miley Cyrus is fake... again.

Eh, whatever. It was still funny.

As to her performance, I found it to be kinda gross. She kinda lost that whole girl next door thing that she had going for awhile.

And... you don't think maybe she wanted to divorce herself from that image? That maybe she found it a bit suffocating and limiting, or she was just plain tired of being the "girl next door" and having to be a "role model" for young girls with mothers who are too stupid or irresponsible to help their daughters find better role models?

The only thing Miley Cyrus did that was "wrong" in any regard is that her performance was just odd and a bit boring. Sort of like Britney Spears... waitasec, Spears, christ we've been here before haven't we?

I haven't seen a shred of evidence compelling me to accept that argument beyond personal outraged assertions that Miley Cyrus did something "insensitive" regarding race. Nobody "stole" anything, Twerking was on vine and youtube long before Miley ever inserted herself into the equation.

It lies deeply in the history you keep thinking excuses the whole thing.

So... you're saying you take umbrage with Elvis as well for the same trespasses you find so egregious then?

[George Kaplan]

Eh, whatever. It was still funny.

As to her performance, I found it to be kinda gross. She kinda lost that whole girl next door thing that she had going for awhile.

And... you don't think maybe she wanted to divorce herself from that image? That maybe she found it a bit suffocating and limiting, or she was just plain tired of being the "girl next door" and having to be a "role model" for young girls with mothers who are too stupid or irresponsible to help their daughters find better role models?

The only thing Miley Cyrus did that was "wrong" in any regard is that her performance was just odd and a bit boring. Sort of like Britney Spears... waitasec, Spears, christ we've been here before haven't we?

Hmm. I don't recall saying she did anything "wrong." Just that she looks and acts like "shit" and trying to come off as hot, she's not really doing a great job.

[Llamalandia]

Intentionality is necessary for a charge of racism. It's not like you can just be accidentally racist you have to mean it. Otherwise anytime you forgot to hold a door for some of a different race well you'd be an "accidental racist". I eman barring the use of slurs you don't understand or something and again that's not really racism because there is no intentionality behind it.

If you have an extremely limited to the point of being deliberately absurd understanding of race and culture, sure. You need to understand the distance between a burning cross and the kinds of normalized racism that can and do exist in a society. Until you understand these differences you are unequipped for the conversation. The good news is that even in your ridiculous definition you see where the hole is, "barring the use of slurs you don't understand"...once you understand how that happens you begin to understand how one can think they are celebrating a culture while using age old tropes that have been used to exploit and otherize a culture.

Well iagree that if Cyrus were to say repeat the performance now (and it is in fact racial which i'm not convinced it is) then yeah iwould say she is a racist. Essentially ignorance is a defense is what i am in fact asserting.

But the problem here is that too say she was "dancing like black women so as to parody them", well that implies that you have already injected a certain level of racism into the matter intentionally as you have stereotyped (whether fair or unfair) how all black women act and that in and of itself is racist under your reasoning as far as understand it.

[Cannot think of a name]

It lies deeply in the history you keep thinking excuses the whole thing.

So... you're saying you take umbrage with Elvis as well for the same trespasses you find so egregious then?

Yes. Dear god, yes. Holy crap, you're starting to get it, despite continuing to throw up things that are emblematic of the problem thinking they are things that dismiss it as a problem. Elvis is in many ways the Gold Standard of this problem.

[Cannot think of a name]

If you have an extremely limited to the point of being deliberately absurd understanding of race and culture, sure. You need to understand the distance between a burning cross and the kinds of normalized racism that can and do exist in a society. Until you understand these differences you are unequipped for the conversation. The good news is that even in your ridiculous definition you see where the hole is, "barring the use of slurs you don't understand"...once you understand how that happens you begin to understand how one can think they are celebrating a culture while using age old tropes that have been used to exploit and otherize a culture.

Well iagree that if Cyrus were to say repeat the performance now (and it is in fact racial which i'm not convinced it is) then yeah iwould say she is a racist. Essentially ignorance is a defense is what i am in fact asserting.

But the problem here is that too say she was "dancing like black women so as to parody them", well that implies that you have already injected a certain level of racism into the matter intentionally as you have stereotyped (whether fair or unfair) how all black women act and that in and of itself is racist under your reasoning as far as understand it.

You say that as if noticing the context creates the context, which is of course ridiculous.