Miley Cyrus VMA performance and modern views on sex and race

[Herrebrugh]

(Image)


Obligatory pics aside, it was pretty poor form on her part. Not sure how it really "represents modern views on sex and race" thou, just one crazy girl acting immature to prove her maturity.

This pic... Oh my God... I don't know what to say...

It's awesome... Literally... It inspires awe...

Actually, it's just really fucking funny

[Ifreann]

Nothing about this strikes me as off the rails.

She is most definitely acting out, make no doubt about it.

By now, all female pop stars raised up by Disney act like this.

I can't claim to have any insights into what's going on in Miley Cyrus' brain, but I don't think that doing more or less the same thing as almost every other female pop star is really "acting out". Strikes me more as just a career move. I can easily imagine her sitting down with her management team and deciding that there's a boatload of money to be made from ditching the clean-cut and wholesome look and sexing it up a notch. Bam!

Now, if she were falling out of night clubs every weekend, coked out of her tree, I could get behind calling that acting out. Or if she were to suddenly quit the music industry to join an order of nuns who take a solemn vow of silence.

[Gauthier]

She is most definitely acting out, make no doubt about it.

By now, all female pop stars raised up by Disney act like this.

I can't claim to have any insights into what's going on in Miley Cyrus' brain, but I don't think that doing more or less the same thing as almost every other female pop star is really "acting out". Strikes me more as just a career move. I can easily imagine her sitting down with her management team and deciding that there's a boatload of money to be made from ditching the clean-cut and wholesome look and sexing it up a notch. Bam!

Now, if she were falling out of night clubs every weekend, coked out of her tree, I could get behind calling that acting out. Or if she were to suddenly quit the music industry to join an order of nuns who take a solemn vow of silence.

Or like a really messed up junkie, she has a pathological need to sever herself from being associated with Disney wholesomeness combined with an addiction to celebrity.

[Northern Dominus]

Again, how exactly is Miley doing "badly"? By what arbitrary standards are you judging her? Yes she's cavorting around on stage in a rather odd show, but how is that a "bad" thing at her age, especially when you consider that around the same time Lindsey Lohan started her downard spiral in a rapid fashion, or Shia Lebouff who not only has had every iota of enigma or personality sucked out of him but gets into trouble regarding his drinking on a regular basis?

The only "bad" things about Miley's performances or conduct since becoming a legal adult is the kind that is made up in the minds of busybody "moral crusaders" with too much time on their hands who tut-tut everybody that doesn't fit into their view of what's right and factional vapid mouth-breathers with too much time on their hands who gladly jump on board the bandwagon because they happen to like somebody else like, say.. Adelle.

Still, would you want underaged kids watching things like the VMA performance on a regular basis?

Define "underaged" exactly? Nothing she did was beyond the scope of what your average 14 year old does at a school dance save for the flesh-toned bikini (which is something they'd see at the municipal pool probably), and in any event if parents don't want their kids watching that sort of thing then it's their damn responsibility to intercede and set the time-locks on all TV's in the house, not MTV's or Miley Cyrus'.

I'll start worrying about the VMA's when people are executed live on national TV. Until then... it's just suggestive dancing, nothing to go ballistic over.

[Cannot think of a name]

Imagine going through the identity crisis that is your late teens/early twenties, but now with a group of people whose livelihood is largely reliant on selling you as a product, buckets of money, and a mass of adoring fans some of whom are going through the same phase in their life. In some regards we shouldn't marvel at those who navigate that poorly but at those who manage to do it well.

Again, how exactly is Miley doing "badly"? By what arbitrary standards are you judging her? Yes she's cavorting around on stage in a rather odd show, but how is that a "bad" thing at her age, especially when you consider that around the same time Lindsey Lohan started her downard spiral in a rapid fashion, or Shia Lebouff who not only has had every iota of enigma or personality sucked out of him but gets into trouble regarding his drinking on a regular basis?

The only "bad" things about Miley's performances or conduct since becoming a legal adult is the kind that is made up in the minds of busybody "moral crusaders" with too much time on their hands who tut-tut everybody that doesn't fit into their view of what's right and factional vapid mouth-breathers with too much time on their hands who gladly jump on board the bandwagon because they happen to like somebody else like, say.. Adelle.

Calm down, dude, you're trying too hard.

You're reading a lot into an innocuous statement to ironically call me out on reading too much into something. Substitute 'bad' for 'awkward' if you want, in that everyone's transition from teenager to adult is awkward, we just don't do it in the public eye. If you'd take that chip off your shoulder you'd have realized that I was excusing more than accusing.

It has fuck all to do with moralizing. It's not a puritan attitude or a demand on who Ms. Cyrus should be, it's being old enough to have passed through the other end of that part of ones life and recognize what it is.

[Ifreann]

I can't claim to have any insights into what's going on in Miley Cyrus' brain, but I don't think that doing more or less the same thing as almost every other female pop star is really "acting out". Strikes me more as just a career move. I can easily imagine her sitting down with her management team and deciding that there's a boatload of money to be made from ditching the clean-cut and wholesome look and sexing it up a notch. Bam!

Now, if she were falling out of night clubs every weekend, coked out of her tree, I could get behind calling that acting out. Or if she were to suddenly quit the music industry to join an order of nuns who take a solemn vow of silence.

Or like a really messed up junkie, she has a pathological need to sever herself from being associated with Disney wholesomeness combined with an addiction to celebrity.

Maybe. As I said, I don't know what's going on in her head. It's entirely possible that something in her mind has snapped and she is 100% bat-shit insane, to use technical parlance. But if so, then by some strange coincidence she is insane in such a way that she is not actually behaving very differently from other female pop stars. Which rather causes me to doubt whether she is insane at all.

[Nailed to the Perch]

Or like a really messed up junkie, she has a pathological need to sever herself from being associated with Disney wholesomeness combined with an addiction to celebrity.

Maybe. As I said, I don't know what's going on in her head. It's entirely possible that something in her mind has snapped and she is 100% bat-shit insane, to use technical parlance. But if so, then by some strange coincidence she is insane in such a way that she is not actually behaving very differently from other female pop stars. Which rather causes me to doubt whether she is insane at all.

Indeed. I don't think Cyrus is insane, or "going off the rails," or terrible, or anything like that. I think she is a kinda clueless rich white kid who likes dancing around sexily and does not like (or, very likely, have the tools for) figuring out why having a black woman onstage solely to be a disembodied ass for a white person to grab might rub people the wrong way. The worst thing I have to say about Miley Cyrus isn't that she's crazy or a monster or some nonsense like that. It's just "she's a 20-year-old who's never not lived in a mansion, and you can kinda tell. Hopefully she'll grow out of that some."

[Neo Art]

Maybe. As I said, I don't know what's going on in her head. It's entirely possible that something in her mind has snapped and she is 100% bat-shit insane, to use technical parlance. But if so, then by some strange coincidence she is insane in such a way that she is not actually behaving very differently from other female pop stars. Which rather causes me to doubt whether she is insane at all.

Indeed. I don't think Cyrus is insane, or "going off the rails," or terrible, or anything like that. I think she is a kinda clueless rich white kid who likes dancing around sexily and does not like (or, very likely, have the tools for) figuring out why having a black woman onstage solely to be a disembodied ass for a white person to grab might rub people the wrong way. The worst thing I have to say about Miley Cyrus isn't that she's crazy or a monster or some nonsense like that. It's just "she's a 20-year-old who's never not lived in a mansion, and you can kinda tell. Hopefully she'll grow out of that some."

Or, to put it another way, when people say "check your privilege" this is what they are talking about

[Greed and Death]

Maybe. As I said, I don't know what's going on in her head. It's entirely possible that something in her mind has snapped and she is 100% bat-shit insane, to use technical parlance. But if so, then by some strange coincidence she is insane in such a way that she is not actually behaving very differently from other female pop stars. Which rather causes me to doubt whether she is insane at all.

Indeed. I don't think Cyrus is insane, or "going off the rails," or terrible, or anything like that. I think she is a kinda clueless rich white kid who likes dancing around sexily and does not like (or, very likely, have the tools for) figuring out why having a black woman onstage solely to be a disembodied ass for a white person to grab might rub people the wrong way. The worst thing I have to say about Miley Cyrus isn't that she's crazy or a monster or some nonsense like that. It's just "she's a 20-year-old who's never not lived in a mansion, and you can kinda tell. Hopefully she'll grow out of that some."

I am thinking we take all her money and put it in a trust for 10 years, that she can not access.
Then we make her take a menial job like dish washer and force her to live off that.

[Nailed to the Perch]

Indeed. I don't think Cyrus is insane, or "going off the rails," or terrible, or anything like that. I think she is a kinda clueless rich white kid who likes dancing around sexily and does not like (or, very likely, have the tools for) figuring out why having a black woman onstage solely to be a disembodied ass for a white person to grab might rub people the wrong way. The worst thing I have to say about Miley Cyrus isn't that she's crazy or a monster or some nonsense like that. It's just "she's a 20-year-old who's never not lived in a mansion, and you can kinda tell. Hopefully she'll grow out of that some."

I am thinking we take all her money and put it in a trust for 10 years, that she can not access.
Then we make her take a menial job like dish washer and force her to live off that.

10 years seems a bit harsh, but I do kinda think the world might be a better place if all rich kids were required to spend, like, three months or something living like working-class people, ideally amongst members of races other than their own. It would at least cut down a bit on the number of times the rather Miley-esque kids who surrounded me in college blithely said things like, "What kind of car did your parents buy you for your sixteenth birthday?" or "Look how gangsta I am, tee hee!"

[Ifreann]

Indeed. I don't think Cyrus is insane, or "going off the rails," or terrible, or anything like that. I think she is a kinda clueless rich white kid who likes dancing around sexily and does not like (or, very likely, have the tools for) figuring out why having a black woman onstage solely to be a disembodied ass for a white person to grab might rub people the wrong way. The worst thing I have to say about Miley Cyrus isn't that she's crazy or a monster or some nonsense like that. It's just "she's a 20-year-old who's never not lived in a mansion, and you can kinda tell. Hopefully she'll grow out of that some."

I am thinking we take all her money and put it in a trust for 10 years, that she can not access.
Then we make her take a menial job like dish washer and force her to live off that.

Didn't Paris Hilton already make that show?

[Cannot think of a name]

I am thinking we take all her money and put it in a trust for 10 years, that she can not access.
Then we make her take a menial job like dish washer and force her to live off that.

Didn't Paris Hilton already make that show?

I have a theory that the underlying premise of that show was someone betting that there is nothing you can do in the United States to start a class war. 'Watch, we'll take the the biggest symbol of privilege and excess and her friend and we'll have them go around mocking the everyday lives of not-rich people and they'll fucking love it.'

[Northern Dominus]

Again, how exactly is Miley doing "badly"? By what arbitrary standards are you judging her? Yes she's cavorting around on stage in a rather odd show, but how is that a "bad" thing at her age, especially when you consider that around the same time Lindsey Lohan started her downard spiral in a rapid fashion, or Shia Lebouff who not only has had every iota of enigma or personality sucked out of him but gets into trouble regarding his drinking on a regular basis?

The only "bad" things about Miley's performances or conduct since becoming a legal adult is the kind that is made up in the minds of busybody "moral crusaders" with too much time on their hands who tut-tut everybody that doesn't fit into their view of what's right and factional vapid mouth-breathers with too much time on their hands who gladly jump on board the bandwagon because they happen to like somebody else like, say.. Adelle.

Calm down, dude, you're trying too hard.

You're reading a lot into an innocuous statement to ironically call me out on reading too much into something. Substitute 'bad' for 'awkward' if you want, in that everyone's transition from teenager to adult is awkward, we just don't do it in the public eye. If you'd take that chip off your shoulder you'd have realized that I was excusing more than accusing.

It has fuck all to do with moralizing. It's not a puritan attitude or a demand on who Ms. Cyrus should be, it's being old enough to have passed through the other end of that part of ones life and recognize what it is.

My apologies if I mis-interpreted, but my train of thought still stands... you just provided a springboard from which to launch it

Indeed. I don't think Cyrus is insane, or "going off the rails," or terrible, or anything like that. I think she is a kinda clueless rich white kid who likes dancing around sexily and does not like (or, very likely, have the tools for) figuring out why having a black woman onstage solely to be a disembodied ass for a white person to grab might rub people the wrong way. The worst thing I have to say about Miley Cyrus isn't that she's crazy or a monster or some nonsense like that. It's just "she's a 20-year-old who's never not lived in a mansion, and you can kinda tell. Hopefully she'll grow out of that some."

I am thinking we take all her money and put it in a trust for 10 years, that she can not access.
Then we make her take a menial job like dish washer and force her to live off that.

For what exactly, twerking on TV? When irresponsible and lax parents let their kids watch when they should have been paying attention?

Do you wish to subject all wealthy people in their late teens and early 20s to this treatment or does Miley get some sort of special treatment for dancing on national TV in a manner that some puritanical shrews don't like?

[Greed and Death]

I am thinking we take all her money and put it in a trust for 10 years, that she can not access.
Then we make her take a menial job like dish washer and force her to live off that.

10 years seems a bit harsh, but I do kinda think the world might be a better place if all rich kids were required to spend, like, three months or something living like working-class people, ideally amongst members of races other than their own. It would at least cut down a bit on the number of times the rather Miley-esque kids who surrounded me in college blithely said things like, "What kind of car did your parents buy you for your sixteenth birthday?" or "Look how gangsta I am, tee hee!"

No 3 months would just be a summer vacation to rich kids.

I got it, how about if everyone from a household earning over 250,000 a year was required to serve 2 years in the military before turning 18. And just in case they are anti military we will allow them to donate to below 250,000 a year avoid their children having to go to the military.

[Greed and Death]

I am thinking we take all her money and put it in a trust for 10 years, that she can not access.
Then we make her take a menial job like dish washer and force her to live off that.

For what exactly, twerking on TV? When irresponsible and lax parents let their kids watch when they should have been paying attention?

Do you wish to subject all wealthy people in their late teens and early 20s to this treatment or does Miley get some sort of special treatment for dancing on national TV in a manner that some puritanical shrews don't like?

For her education of course.

[Northern Dominus]

For what exactly, twerking on TV? When irresponsible and lax parents let their kids watch when they should have been paying attention?

Do you wish to subject all wealthy people in their late teens and early 20s to this treatment or does Miley get some sort of special treatment for dancing on national TV in a manner that some puritanical shrews don't like?

For her education of course.

Uh huh. So by that same logic then Demi Lovato also gets her money taken away, or do her anger issues get a pass because she didn't twerk with Robin Thicke on national TV?

[Cannot think of a name]

Calm down, dude, you're trying too hard.

You're reading a lot into an innocuous statement to ironically call me out on reading too much into something. Substitute 'bad' for 'awkward' if you want, in that everyone's transition from teenager to adult is awkward, we just don't do it in the public eye. If you'd take that chip off your shoulder you'd have realized that I was excusing more than accusing.

It has fuck all to do with moralizing. It's not a puritan attitude or a demand on who Ms. Cyrus should be, it's being old enough to have passed through the other end of that part of ones life and recognize what it is.

My apologies if I mis-interpreted, but my train of thought still stands... you just provided a springboard from which to launch it

Since I do that all the time I'm not particularly put out by it, but having said that...

I am thinking we take all her money and put it in a trust for 10 years, that she can not access.
Then we make her take a menial job like dish washer and force her to live off that.

For what exactly, twerking on TV? When irresponsible and lax parents let their kids watch when they should have been paying attention?

Do you wish to subject all wealthy people in their late teens and early 20s to this treatment or does Miley get some sort of special treatment for dancing on national TV in a manner that some puritanical shrews don't like?

...you might want to read Nailed to the Perch's complaint before you fly off the handle, because it bears no relation to what you just said.

That's twice. Take a deep breath, try to understand what people are saying, not what you seem to assume they're saying that you've come at with pre-packaged anger.

[Gauthier]

My apologies if I mis-interpreted, but my train of thought still stands... you just provided a springboard from which to launch it

Since I do that all the time I'm not particularly put out by it, but having said that...

For what exactly, twerking on TV? When irresponsible and lax parents let their kids watch when they should have been paying attention?

Do you wish to subject all wealthy people in their late teens and early 20s to this treatment or does Miley get some sort of special treatment for dancing on national TV in a manner that some puritanical shrews don't like?

...you might want to read Nailed to the Perch's complaint before you fly off the handle, because it bears no relation to what you just said.

That's twice. Take a deep breath, try to understand what people are saying, not what you seem to assume they're saying that you've come at with pre-packaged anger.

Seriously, heading for Chris Crocker territory.

[Greed and Death]

For her education of course.

Uh huh. So by that same logic then Demi Lovato also gets her money taken away, or do her anger issues get a pass because she didn't twerk with Robin Thicke on national TV?

Now that you mention it I would not mind taking all her money putting it in a trust for 10 years that I manage as well.

[Northern Dominus]

My apologies if I mis-interpreted, but my train of thought still stands... you just provided a springboard from which to launch it

Since I do that all the time I'm not particularly put out by it, but having said that...

For what exactly, twerking on TV? When irresponsible and lax parents let their kids watch when they should have been paying attention?

Do you wish to subject all wealthy people in their late teens and early 20s to this treatment or does Miley get some sort of special treatment for dancing on national TV in a manner that some puritanical shrews don't like?

...you might want to read Nailed to the Perch's complaint before you fly off the handle, because it bears no relation to what you just said.

That's twice. Take a deep breath, try to understand what people are saying, not what you seem to assume they're saying that you've come at with pre-packaged anger.

I did in fact read NTTP's response and I disagree with it as well. I mean, she had a black woman with a rather rotund derriere on stage... so what exactly? In the history of oddball and suggestive VMA performances that's pretty low on the totem pole (pole, heh, Miley Cyrus dancing at the 2009 Teen Choice Awards anyone?). Again this is a show where Diana Ross has fondled Lil' Kim, Madonna kissed both Britney Spears and Christina Aguleria, Prince waved his bare ass at the audience, and Lady Gaga bleed and "hung" herself among other shocking moments, so Miley's entire pefromance is kinda low on the list of "shocking" moments really.

It's amazing how short everyone's memory is and how eager they are to jump on the "ew that's wrong she's wrong" bandwagon for their own insipid reasons.

Since I do that all the time I'm not particularly put out by it, but having said that...

...you might want to read Nailed to the Perch's complaint before you fly off the handle, because it bears no relation to what you just said.

That's twice. Take a deep breath, try to understand what people are saying, not what you seem to assume they're saying that you've come at with pre-packaged anger.

Seriously, heading for Chris Crocker territory.

...LEAVE MILEY ALLOOOOONNNEEEEE!!1!one!!!eleven!!11!!!

[Cannot think of a name]

Since I do that all the time I'm not particularly put out by it, but having said that...

...you might want to read Nailed to the Perch's complaint before you fly off the handle, because it bears no relation to what you just said.

That's twice. Take a deep breath, try to understand what people are saying, not what you seem to assume they're saying that you've come at with pre-packaged anger.

I did in fact read NTTP's response and I disagree with it as well. I mean, she had a black woman with a rather rotund derriere on stage... so what exactly? In the history of oddball and suggestive VMA performances that's pretty low on the totem pole (pole, heh, Miley Cyrus dancing at the 2009 Teen Choice Awards anyone?). Again this is a show where Diana Ross has fondled Lil' Kim, Madonna kissed both Britney Spears and Christina Aguleria, Prince waved his bare ass at the audience, and Lady Gaga bleed and "hung" herself among other shocking moments, so Miley's entire pefromance is kinda low on the list of "shocking" moments really.

It's amazing how short everyone's memory is and how eager they are to jump on the "ew that's wrong she's wrong" bandwagon for their own insipid reasons.

You might want to read it again. Nailed to the Perch is not in any way talking about the performance being 'shocking' or 'ew'. You're still compartmentalizing this into a narrative you've settled on before you got here.

[Nailed to the Perch]

Since I do that all the time I'm not particularly put out by it, but having said that...

...you might want to read Nailed to the Perch's complaint before you fly off the handle, because it bears no relation to what you just said.

That's twice. Take a deep breath, try to understand what people are saying, not what you seem to assume they're saying that you've come at with pre-packaged anger.

I did in fact read NTTP's response and I disagree with it as well. I mean, she had a black woman with a rather rotund derriere on stage... so what exactly? In the history of oddball and suggestive VMA performances that's pretty low on the totem pole (pole, heh, Miley Cyrus dancing at the 2009 Teen Choice Awards anyone?). Again this is a show where Diana Ross has fondled Lil' Kim, Madonna kissed both Britney Spears and Christina Aguleria, Prince waved his bare ass at the audience, and Lady Gaga bleed and "hung" herself among other shocking moments, so Miley's entire pefromance is kinda low on the list of "shocking" moments really.

It's amazing how short everyone's memory is and how eager they are to jump on the "ew that's wrong she's wrong" bandwagon for their own insipid reasons.

...dude, you're outright agreeing with me, right up until the point where you randomly decide that being uncomfortable with racist imagery is "insipid." May I seriously suggest digging back in the thread a bit and reading what I've said thus far? Because my point not only is not "this is a shocking departure from typical pop star behavior!" but is literally the exact opposite.

[Northern Dominus]

I did in fact read NTTP's response and I disagree with it as well. I mean, she had a black woman with a rather rotund derriere on stage... so what exactly? In the history of oddball and suggestive VMA performances that's pretty low on the totem pole (pole, heh, Miley Cyrus dancing at the 2009 Teen Choice Awards anyone?). Again this is a show where Diana Ross has fondled Lil' Kim, Madonna kissed both Britney Spears and Christina Aguleria, Prince waved his bare ass at the audience, and Lady Gaga bleed and "hung" herself among other shocking moments, so Miley's entire pefromance is kinda low on the list of "shocking" moments really.

It's amazing how short everyone's memory is and how eager they are to jump on the "ew that's wrong she's wrong" bandwagon for their own insipid reasons.

...dude, you're outright agreeing with me, right up until the point where you randomly decide that being uncomfortable with racist imagery is "insipid." May I seriously suggest digging back in the thread a bit and reading what I've said thus far? Because my point not only is not "this is a shocking departure from typical pop star behavior!" but is literally the exact opposite.

How exactly is having a woman with a big butt onstage racist? Because she happened to be black, so it would have been magically ok if she were white or latina or asian? It's only racist when somebody makes it about race outright.

Maybe I mis-interpereted what you wrote because it read to me as "skinny white pop star has no clue and should feel bad for it", but per CTOAN's assertion maybe I have a bit of a mental clenched fist courtesy of the previous wolf-whistles and banal assertions to that effect. I'd just like a little parity if somebody is going to condemn Miley as somehow being the worst thing the VMA's have produced, which is in short supply these days.

[Ifreann]

...dude, you're outright agreeing with me, right up until the point where you randomly decide that being uncomfortable with racist imagery is "insipid." May I seriously suggest digging back in the thread a bit and reading what I've said thus far? Because my point not only is not "this is a shocking departure from typical pop star behavior!" but is literally the exact opposite.

How exactly is having a woman with a big butt onstage racist? Because she happened to be black, so it would have been magically ok if she were white or latina or asian? It's only racist when somebody makes it about race outright.

...On this site, "there is a black woman there whose entire function in the performance is to be a large ass for Ms. Cyrus to smack" cannot possibly count as racially insensitive unless Cyrus follows it up by saying, "ALSO I AM TOTALLY RACIST, Y'ALL. FUCK BLACK PEOPLE, TEE HEE."

Page 6 of this thread.

[The Rich Port]

... Jesus Fucking Christ, the fucking teddy bear shit is FREAKING ME OUT, GODFUCKINGDAMMIT