Miley Cyrus VMA performance and modern views on sex and race

[The Rich Port]

I wasn't referring to Miley Cyrus specifically.

So who were you referring to?The obvious implication of your post is that female mainstream music icons who are routinely sexualised are either untalented or anorexic. At least some of them must be, in your mind, anorexic or you wouldn't have mentioned it. So who is it? Expand on your point. Enlighten us as to your point of view.

... Well, shit, now that I bring it up, I can't remember who I was thinking of.

To be fair to myself, though, skinny songstresses sell, and the record industry recruits and recruits and probably makes them stay hot and skinny.

That's not a healthy attitude, nor is it something everyone necessarily wants to see.

Slimness should be about being healthy, not about being beautiful.

[Tahar Joblis]

So who were you referring to?The obvious implication of your post is that female mainstream music icons who are routinely sexualised are either untalented or anorexic. At least some of them must be, in your mind, anorexic or you wouldn't have mentioned it. So who is it? Expand on your point. Enlighten us as to your point of view.

... Well, shit, now that I bring it up, I can't remember who I was thinking of.

To be fair to myself, though, skinny songstresses sell, and the record industry recruits and recruits and probably makes them stay hot and skinny.

That's not a healthy attitude, nor is it something everyone necessarily wants to see.

Slimness should be about being healthy, not about being beautiful.

IMO, if you focus on being in good shape by fitness measures, rather than focusing on trying to achieve slimness, you will end up physically smaller (if heavier... muscle is denser than fat...) and looking better than you would have trying just to lose weight.

[Tahar Joblis]

One thing for sure, Miley has definitely become the outlet of aggression for many.

Which is, frankly, absurd and obscene. There isn't a good reason for the sort of anger we're seeing. It's like a committee came up with a bunch of different reasons to hate Miley Cyrus, and 90% of NSG drew lots to pick which reason to hate Miley for.

I feel like most of the people in this thread aren't arguing about whether or not Miley should be hated, but why she should be hated. There's the racism crowd; the cultural appropriation crowd; the homewrecker crowd; the "I blame Billy Ray!" crowd; the "she's a bad dancer" crowd; the "she's a bad singer" crowd; the "oh my goodness she should fire her staff!" crowd; the "I hate Robin Thicke!" crowd; the "OBJECTIFICATION!" crowd; the "pedophilic!!!!1!ONE!" crowd...

Cool it. Miley's fine. She's an attractive young white woman who's doing well for herself, she likes rap music, and she hangs out and works with a lot of black rappers. No more, no less. There's little if anything special about her VMA performance outside of the reaction.

[Ifreann]

So who were you referring to?The obvious implication of your post is that female mainstream music icons who are routinely sexualised are either untalented or anorexic. At least some of them must be, in your mind, anorexic or you wouldn't have mentioned it. So who is it? Expand on your point. Enlighten us as to your point of view.

... Well, shit, now that I bring it up, I can't remember who I was thinking of.

To be fair to myself, though, skinny songstresses sell, and the record industry recruits and recruits and probably makes them stay hot and skinny.

That's not a healthy attitude, nor is it something everyone necessarily wants to see.

Slimness should be about being healthy, not about being beautiful.

So really, reading between the lines a bit, you were being hyperbolic, and wrongly using the term 'anorexic'. That's okay. You know better now.

[Ifreann]

One thing for sure, Miley has definitely become the outlet of aggression for many.

Which is, frankly, absurd and obscene. There isn't a good reason for the sort of anger we're seeing. It's like a committee came up with a bunch of different reasons to hate Miley Cyrus, and 90% of NSG drew lots to pick which reason to hate Miley for.

I feel like most of the people in this thread aren't arguing about whether or not Miley should be hated, but why she should be hated. There's the racism crowd; the cultural appropriation crowd; the homewrecker crowd; the "I blame Billy Ray!" crowd; the "she's a bad dancer" crowd; the "she's a bad singer" crowd; the "oh my goodness she should fire her staff!" crowd; the "I hate Robin Thicke!" crowd; the "OBJECTIFICATION!" crowd; the "pedophilic!!!!1!ONE!" crowd...

Cool it. Miley's fine. She's an attractive young white woman who's doing well for herself, she likes rap music, and she hangs out and works with a lot of black rappers. No more, no less. There's little if anything special about her VMA performance outside of the reaction.

You may want to reformulate that thought a bit.

[The Rich Port]

... Well, shit, now that I bring it up, I can't remember who I was thinking of.

To be fair to myself, though, skinny songstresses sell, and the record industry recruits and recruits and probably makes them stay hot and skinny.

That's not a healthy attitude, nor is it something everyone necessarily wants to see.

Slimness should be about being healthy, not about being beautiful.

So really, reading between the lines a bit, you were being hyperbolic, and wrongly using the term 'anorexic'. That's okay. You know better now.

I was using anorexic as shorthand for anorexia nervosa.

I know what the difference is.

Though, no, I can't say whether Miley Cyrus has anorexia nervosa.

Whatever. I'm sleepy.

[Tahar Joblis]

Which is, frankly, absurd and obscene. There isn't a good reason for the sort of anger we're seeing. It's like a committee came up with a bunch of different reasons to hate Miley Cyrus, and 90% of NSG drew lots to pick which reason to hate Miley for.

I feel like most of the people in this thread aren't arguing about whether or not Miley should be hated, but why she should be hated. There's the racism crowd; the cultural appropriation crowd; the homewrecker crowd; the "I blame Billy Ray!" crowd; the "she's a bad dancer" crowd; the "she's a bad singer" crowd; the "oh my goodness she should fire her staff!" crowd; the "I hate Robin Thicke!" crowd; the "OBJECTIFICATION!" crowd; the "pedophilic!!!!1!ONE!" crowd...

Cool it. Miley's fine. She's an attractive young white woman who's doing well for herself, she likes rap music, and she hangs out and works with a lot of black rappers. No more, no less. There's little if anything special about her VMA performance outside of the reaction.

You may want to reformulate that thought a bit.

Well, it's true that some people are picking multiple reasons to hate Miley. But it certainly seems like there's a lot of Miley-hate running around, and this really is a tempest in a teacup on a molehill being made into a mountain.

[Northern Dominus]

Which is, frankly, absurd and obscene. There isn't a good reason for the sort of anger we're seeing. It's like a committee came up with a bunch of different reasons to hate Miley Cyrus, and 90% of NSG drew lots to pick which reason to hate Miley for.

I feel like most of the people in this thread aren't arguing about whether or not Miley should be hated, but why she should be hated. There's the racism crowd; the cultural appropriation crowd; the homewrecker crowd; the "I blame Billy Ray!" crowd; the "she's a bad dancer" crowd; the "she's a bad singer" crowd; the "oh my goodness she should fire her staff!" crowd; the "I hate Robin Thicke!" crowd; the "OBJECTIFICATION!" crowd; the "pedophilic!!!!1!ONE!" crowd...

Cool it. Miley's fine. She's an attractive young white woman who's doing well for herself, she likes rap music, and she hangs out and works with a lot of black rappers. No more, no less. There's little if anything special about her VMA performance outside of the reaction.

You may want to reformulate that thought a bit.

While I find myself in an odd place agreeing with the resident MRA stump, in this case we tend to agree.

Really, show me anything that Miley Cyrus has done that A. is somehow outside of the normal operating arena for the VMA's and 2. Is specifically leveled at her and isn't just the same sort of "moral majority" schtick that's been brought up over and over when any attractive woman dares to wear something more revealing than business standard and shake her hips in any sort of way.
Because I fail to see anything that Miley has done that warrants all of the ire and venom leveled at her lately.

[The Parkus Empire]

Holy fuck, I just saw the unrated version of the Blurred Lines music video (lol YouTube can make a topless exception for that, I guess). The woman has a little stop sign in her ass in 3:47 while he says "blurred lines!"

Jesus Christ, Thicke is one sick fuck.

[Ifreann]

You may want to reformulate that thought a bit.

Well, it's true that some people are picking multiple reasons to hate Miley. But it certainly seems like there's a lot of Miley-hate running around, and this really is a tempest in a teacup on a molehill being made into a mountain.

What I was getting at is that some of the reasons you've listed for people hating Miley Cyrus are more like defences of her("I blame Billy Ray!", "oh my goodness she should fire her staff!"), or nothing to do with her at all("I hate Robin Thicke"). I'm also at a bit off a loss as to what "pedophilic!!!!1!ONE!" is in reference, but that's me.

[Hurdegaryp]

Her performance got exactly what she wanted, everyone talking about it. It pushed her single up to #1 in iTunes sales too, regardless of what people thought of the performance.

And what people keep forgetting is that her remarkable performance was actually full of all kinds of symbolism.

[Lordieth]

Kind of adds to the "Disney stars going off the rails" hypothesis, really.

[Hurdegaryp]

Kind of adds to the "Disney stars going off the rails" hypothesis, really.

By now it should be clear that's an integral part of the job description.

[Ifreann]

Kind of adds to the "Disney stars going off the rails" hypothesis, really.

Nothing about this strikes me as off the rails.

[Hurdegaryp]

Kind of adds to the "Disney stars going off the rails" hypothesis, really.

Nothing about this strikes me as off the rails.

Clearly a fine example of Western pop culture, working exactly as intended.

[The Rich Port]

Kind of adds to the "Disney stars going off the rails" hypothesis, really.

Nothing about this strikes me as off the rails.

She is most definitely acting out, make no doubt about it.

By now, all female pop stars raised up by Disney act like this.

[Cannot think of a name]

Nothing about this strikes me as off the rails.

She is most definitely acting out, make no doubt about it.

By now, all female pop stars raised up by Disney act like this.

Imagine going through the identity crisis that is your late teens/early twenties, but now with a group of people whose livelihood is largely reliant on selling you as a product, buckets of money, and a mass of adoring fans some of whom are going through the same phase in their life. In some regards we shouldn't marvel at those who navigate that poorly but at those who manage to do it well.

[The Rich Port]

She is most definitely acting out, make no doubt about it.

By now, all female pop stars raised up by Disney act like this.

Imagine going through the identity crisis that is your late teens/early twenties, but now with a group of people whose livelihood is largely reliant on selling you as a product, buckets of money, and a mass of adoring fans some of whom are going through the same phase in their life. In some regards we shouldn't marvel at those who navigate that poorly but at those who manage to do it well.

Indeed!

Like... Um... Uh... Fuck, I can't think of anyone...

Christy Carlson Romano?

Yeah, she's doing good.

[Ifreann]

Nothing about this strikes me as off the rails.

Clearly a fine example of Western pop culture, working exactly as intended.

Well, yeah. I mean, she was dancing on stage, without an awful lot of clothes on, in a sexually suggestive way. Not exactly out of the ordinary for a young woman in her line of work. Par for the course, in fact.

[Lordieth]

Nothing about this strikes me as off the rails.

She is most definitely acting out, make no doubt about it.

By now, all female pop stars raised up by Disney act like this.

Don't know about all, but a shocking number at least.

[Gauthier]

Imagine going through the identity crisis that is your late teens/early twenties, but now with a group of people whose livelihood is largely reliant on selling you as a product, buckets of money, and a mass of adoring fans some of whom are going through the same phase in their life. In some regards we shouldn't marvel at those who navigate that poorly but at those who manage to do it well.

Indeed!

Like... Um... Uh... Fuck, I can't think of anyone...

Christy Carlson Romano?

Yeah, she's doing good.

Then again she wasn't made the keystone of a Disney merchandising machine like Miley Cyrus was.

[The Rich Port]

She is most definitely acting out, make no doubt about it.

By now, all female pop stars raised up by Disney act like this.

Don't know about all, but a shocking number at least.

Can you give me examples to the contrary?

The ones I can think of all have.

Britney Spears, Christina Aguilera, and now Selena Gomez and Miley Cyrus.

[Lordieth]

Don't know about all, but a shocking number at least.

Can you give me examples to the contrary?

The ones I can think of all have.

Britney Spears, Christina Aguilera, and now Selena Gomez and Miley Cyrus.

You could argue that you don't hear about the ones that don't go off the rails. I honestly can't think of any off the top of my head, but that doesn't mean there aren't any. I don't think it's just singers either. Lindsay Lohan being one example. I wasn't aware Selena had gone off the rails, but her videos have become raunchier. Not at all surprising, though.

[Northern Dominus]

She is most definitely acting out, make no doubt about it.

By now, all female pop stars raised up by Disney act like this.

Imagine going through the identity crisis that is your late teens/early twenties, but now with a group of people whose livelihood is largely reliant on selling you as a product, buckets of money, and a mass of adoring fans some of whom are going through the same phase in their life. In some regards we shouldn't marvel at those who navigate that poorly but at those who manage to do it well.

Again, how exactly is Miley doing "badly"? By what arbitrary standards are you judging her? Yes she's cavorting around on stage in a rather odd show, but how is that a "bad" thing at her age, especially when you consider that around the same time Lindsey Lohan started her downard spiral in a rapid fashion, or Shia Lebouff who not only has had every iota of enigma or personality sucked out of him but gets into trouble regarding his drinking on a regular basis?

The only "bad" things about Miley's performances or conduct since becoming a legal adult is the kind that is made up in the minds of busybody "moral crusaders" with too much time on their hands who tut-tut everybody that doesn't fit into their view of what's right and factional vapid mouth-breathers with too much time on their hands who gladly jump on board the bandwagon because they happen to like somebody else like, say.. Adelle.

[Gauthier]

Imagine going through the identity crisis that is your late teens/early twenties, but now with a group of people whose livelihood is largely reliant on selling you as a product, buckets of money, and a mass of adoring fans some of whom are going through the same phase in their life. In some regards we shouldn't marvel at those who navigate that poorly but at those who manage to do it well.

Again, how exactly is Miley doing "badly"? By what arbitrary standards are you judging her? Yes she's cavorting around on stage in a rather odd show, but how is that a "bad" thing at her age, especially when you consider that around the same time Lindsey Lohan started her downard spiral in a rapid fashion, or Shia Lebouff who not only has had every iota of enigma or personality sucked out of him but gets into trouble regarding his drinking on a regular basis?

The only "bad" things about Miley's performances or conduct since becoming a legal adult is the kind that is made up in the minds of busybody "moral crusaders" with too much time on their hands who tut-tut everybody that doesn't fit into their view of what's right and factional vapid mouth-breathers with too much time on their hands who gladly jump on board the bandwagon because they happen to like somebody else like, say.. Adelle.

Still, would you want underaged kids watching things like the VMA performance on a regular basis?