Miley Cyrus VMA performance and modern views on sex and race

[TaQud]

To me, she's nothing but a celebrity attention whore. (just like Kardashians, Brittney Spears, Amanda Bynes etc)

[Nailed to the Perch]

So what the hell is this with her performance and race? I have been reading about it, but I don't get how a provocative dance sequence is racist.

I think the part where a black woman (whose face we never saw) appeared onstage in an animal costume so that Miley Cyrus could point at, stick her tongue out at, grab, and smack her ass while singing about "home girls with the big butt shaking it like we at a strip club" was probably the most egregious bit.

[Minoriteeburg]

Let's not forget Madonna's career in the 80s-90s.

My favorite part was her performance of Vogue at the MTV Awards where she had her back up dancers (who were People of Color) kiss her breasts and sniff her crotch. That was pretty much haraam at the time.

Let's not forget the video where a man held her by a leash.

I mean it's just shock value. Ozzy with the bat. Manson.....

and let's not forget GG Allin.

The man threw his own feces in the crowd.

[Nailed to the Perch]

Because apparently Miley Cyrus having black dancers means she's trying to evoke hoochiemama imagery.

Wat.

Seriously? That is the most ignorant thing I have ever heard. (well, recently)

Well, except that's not what anyone's actually arguing.

[The Truth and Light]

My favorite part was her performance of Vogue at the MTV Awards where she had her back up dancers (who were People of Color) kiss her breasts and sniff her crotch. That was pretty much haraam at the time.

Let's not forget the video where a man held her by a leash.

I mean it's just shock value. Ozzy with the bat. Manson.....

and let's not forget GG Allin.

The man threw his own feces in the crowd.

I mean, Americans should kinda be used to this by now, don't you think?

[Minoriteeburg]

Wat.

Seriously? That is the most ignorant thing I have ever heard. (well, recently)

Well, except that's not what anyone's actually arguing.

Well then what are they arguing? I would like to know.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Wat.

Seriously? That is the most ignorant thing I have ever heard. (well, recently)

Well, except that's not what anyone's actually arguing.

Some people are actually arguing that, NTP.

[Minoriteeburg]

Let's not forget the video where a man held her by a leash.

I mean it's just shock value. Ozzy with the bat. Manson.....

and let's not forget GG Allin.

The man threw his own feces in the crowd.

I mean, Americans should kinda be used to this by now, don't you think?

I went to a Goldfinger show a very long time ago (sad I know, but it was a date). During the show the drummer dared anyone to come up to the stage and eat a twinkie out of his ass. If they did they could party back stage with them. And none the less a man came on stage and did just that.

The part that I found even odder is when the drummer took the remainder of the twinkie and ate it. Saying and I quote "What? It's my own ass!"

[The Truth and Light]

To me, she's nothing but a celebrity attention whore. (just like Kardashians, Brittney Spears, Amanda Bynes etc)

She's an entertainer. Attention-grabbing is kinda her job.

[Nailed to the Perch]

Well, except that's not what anyone's actually arguing.

Well then what are they arguing? I would like to know.

My posts in this thread are a decent place to start. Here's a couple of good links to add to it. I don't agree with everything in them, but I think they give a decent breakdown from the perspective of several women of color:
http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/anne-theri ... _hp_ref=tw
http://groupthink.jezebel.com/solidarit ... 1203666732

[Bottle]

Let's not forget the video where a man held her by a leash.

I mean it's just shock value. Ozzy with the bat. Manson.....

and let's not forget GG Allin.

The man threw his own feces in the crowd.

I mean, Americans should kinda be used to this by now, don't you think?

Yes and no.

I think it's okay for people to point out problematic shit in our pop culture. I haven't watched the performance in question, but frankly I would not be remotely surprised if it WAS racist to one degree or another, because our popular culture in general is racist. And sexist. And a lot of other crappy stuff. I think it's not necessarily a good thing if we all become so cynical that we don't even care when ugly shit happens around us.

What annoys me is the hand-wringing as if this is somehow NEW or DIFFERENT from all the gazillions of other problematic elements floating around our pop culture. As other people are so astutely pointing out, racist and sexist and violent bullshit has been a part of music acts since approximately forever, so let's not pretend that These Kids Today are doing anything their parents weren't doing twice as often.

[Nailed to the Perch]

Well, except that's not what anyone's actually arguing.

Some people are actually arguing that, NTP.

Perhaps, but there's been a far more nuanced argument on the subject, so it's rather disingenuous to ignore it in favor of a caricature.

[Grenartia]

Because apparently Miley Cyrus having black dancers means she's trying to evoke hoochiemama imagery.

Wat.

Seriously? That is the most ignorant thing I have ever heard. (well, recently)

Also, apparently, twerking is inherently a racial thing now.

And an artist can't take ideas and elements from a subculture predominately made up of one ethnic group (but is by no means a racially exclusive subculture) and include it in their art, without being a racist. Because cultural segregation.

[Gauthier]

Wat.

Seriously? That is the most ignorant thing I have ever heard. (well, recently)

Also, apparently, twerking is inherently a racial thing now.

And an artist can't take ideas and elements from a subculture predominately made up of one ethnic group (but is by no means a racially exclusive subculture) and include it in their art, without being a racist. Because cultural segregation.

Elvis Presley was the filthiest racist of all times. *nod*

[The Truth and Light]

I mean, Americans should kinda be used to this by now, don't you think?

Yes and no.

I think it's okay for people to point out problematic shit in our pop culture. I haven't watched the performance in question, but frankly I would not be remotely surprised if it WAS racist to one degree or another, because our popular culture in general is racist. And sexist. And a lot of other crappy stuff. I think it's not necessarily a good thing if we all become so cynical that we don't even care when ugly shit happens around us.

What annoys me is the hand-wringing as if this is somehow NEW or DIFFERENT from all the gazillions of other problematic elements floating around our pop culture. As other people are so astutely pointing out, racist and sexist and violent bullshit has been a part of music acts since approximately forever, so let's not pretend that These Kids Today are doing anything their parents weren't doing twice as often.

The second paragraph is what I'm talking about. The slut-shaming, prudishness, misogyny, etc. that people usually spew when they react to this sort of thing.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

Some people are actually arguing that, NTP.

Perhaps, but there's been a far more nuanced argument on the subject, so it's rather disingenuous to ignore it in favor of a caricature.

See, I don't deny that the argument for portraying black people a certain way can't be made. It can. However, what gets me about this is that what many people, and I'm sure you've seen this, are focusing on is the 'she was racy! She was raunchy! She acted like a slut! How dare she! My kids!!'

This is where I roll my eyes.

[Minoriteeburg]

Well then what are they arguing? I would like to know.

My posts in this thread are a decent place to start. Here's a couple of good links to add to it. I don't agree with everything in them, but I think they give a decent breakdown from the perspective of several women of color:
http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/anne-theri ... _hp_ref=tw
http://groupthink.jezebel.com/solidarit ... 1203666732

What Miley is doing is cultural appropriation. She, a wealthy white woman, is taking elements from black culture in order to achieve a specific image. Her status as a member of a traditionally oppressive race and class means that she is able to pick and choose what parts of black culture she wants to embrace without having to deal with the racism and racialization that black women live with every day. In short, she can imagine that she is being "ghetto" without having any concept of what living in a ghetto would really mean.

I facepalmed so hard at this.

Seriously? Maybe it is that, or maybe she just did a style of dancing (that is done across the world) that would get her some attention (even if controversial) to attempt to get her career going again.

To me, to automatically assume that she did her act to copy black culture is racist.

I mean people said that about Elvis when he was popular. With "controversial dancing" and "singing the blues, which at the time was mostly performed by black people. And those people were just as ignorant.

[The Truth and Light]

You know, I think you guys might have a point... races can share can't they?

[Minoriteeburg]

You know, I think you guys might have a point... races can share can't they?

Isn't that the point of ending racism?

This should be a thread of it's own.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

You know, I think you guys might have a point... races can share can't they?

Yup, they can.

[Coccygia]

Oh boy, imaginary racism again...
And Miley Cyrus is just a media slut like Janet Jackson.
Everybody involved, including Miley Cyrus & the Huffington post, should be publicly caned. (In view of the severity of the offense, it will, of course, be "pants-down".)

[The Truth and Light]

You know, I think you guys might have a point... races can share can't they?

Isn't that the point of ending racism?

This should be a thread of it's own.

I would think so. One race, right? The human race.

You know, I think you guys might have a point... races can share can't they?

Yup, they can.

It's just learning from history, imo....

[Nailed to the Perch]

My posts in this thread are a decent place to start. Here's a couple of good links to add to it. I don't agree with everything in them, but I think they give a decent breakdown from the perspective of several women of color:
http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/anne-theri ... _hp_ref=tw
http://groupthink.jezebel.com/solidarit ... 1203666732

What Miley is doing is cultural appropriation. She, a wealthy white woman, is taking elements from black culture in order to achieve a specific image. Her status as a member of a traditionally oppressive race and class means that she is able to pick and choose what parts of black culture she wants to embrace without having to deal with the racism and racialization that black women live with every day. In short, she can imagine that she is being "ghetto" without having any concept of what living in a ghetto would really mean.

I facepalmed so hard at this.

Seriously? Maybe it is that, or maybe she just did a style of dancing (that is done across the world) that would get her some attention (even if controversial) to attempt to get her career going again.

To me, to automatically assume that she did her act to copy black culture is racist.

Once again:

(1) it's not just about one dance move.
(2) no one is "assuming" anything. Ms. Cyrus has explicitly said she chose that song because she wanted something that "sounded black."

I mean people said that about Elvis when he was popular. With "controversial dancing" and "singing the blues, which at the time was mostly performed by black people. And those people were just as ignorant.

...no, they weren't. Elvis got famous SPECIFICALLY as a palatable, white version of a blues singer, while the black people who originated that sound (and even many of the specific songs!) stayed poor and unknown because we couldn't market THEM to white teenagers. Seriously, people, before claiming something is ridiculous or ignorant, it's wise to research it at least a teensy bit.

[Minoriteeburg]

I facepalmed so hard at this.

Seriously? Maybe it is that, or maybe she just did a style of dancing (that is done across the world) that would get her some attention (even if controversial) to attempt to get her career going again.

To me, to automatically assume that she did her act to copy black culture is racist.

Once again:

(1) it's not just about one dance move.
(2) no one is "assuming" anything. Ms. Cyrus has explicitly said she chose that song because she wanted something that "sounded black."

I mean people said that about Elvis when he was popular. With "controversial dancing" and "singing the blues, which at the time was mostly performed by black people. And those people were just as ignorant.

...no, they weren't. Elvis got famous SPECIFICALLY as a palatable, white version of a blues singer, while the black people who originated that sound (and even many of the specific songs!) stayed poor and unknown because we couldn't market THEM to white teenagers. Seriously, people, before claiming something is ridiculous or ignorant, it's wise to research it at least a teensy bit.

Well it's good to see that nothing has changed.

[Nailed to the Perch]

You know, I think you guys might have a point... races can share can't they?

Yes, absolutely. But there's a difference between sharing and cultural appropriation, and while sometimes it can be tricky to figure out where exactly the line is crossed, it's important to try to stay on the right side of it.