Miley Cyrus VMA performance and modern views on sex and race

[Tahar Joblis]

Has it occurred to you that a subject which can be understood "just fine" after one class might just not be the source of the One Great Font of Truth^TM about society, and might instead contain a high volume of bullshit to empirically justifiable claims, leading to such things being widely disrespected?

If you ever complete an introductory course and find yourself without the tools and knowledge base to even involve yourself seriously in discussions related to the discipline, you should probably either reassess whether or not you're ready for tertiary education, or demand a refund.

You are not positioned to say very much about mathematics after a single intro-level course. You do not even have the tools to understand most mathematics yet, at that point. You've just taken the most basic level of calculus or statistics. Or algebra short of calculus. And that's after years of preparatory secondary-level work in mathematics.

You are not ready to engage seriously in discussions of physics after a single semester of physics. You're lucky if you even just understand basic Newtonian mechanics.

Biology? Remarkably, a great deal of biology is completely opaque to a first-year student. Half the students who take an organic chemistry class aren't ready to talk turkey about the nuts and bolts of what's going on, let alone the poor intro students in the first semester of their schlep.

Virtually every STEM field is like that; a depth of technical material so deep that you can't understand everything after a first semester. But this isn't limited to STEM fields! It applies to most social sciences, too. Economics? The simple models you learn in your first year of economics are dead wrong. Psychology? Unless you've been reading extensively on the subject, it's going to take more than a single semester just to acquaint yourself with all of the concepts extant in the field, let alone start discussing them intelligently.

Or outside the sciences... History? Give me a break. One semester of history is barely enough to just gloss over the history of a single country! Philosophy? People who have only had a single semester really haven't got the tools for a serious discussion of philosophy.

[Libertarian California]

While twerking may be stupid and asinine, I just don't see how it's racist.

As for Miley, she may have set the whole struggle to end the objectification of women back by a a year or two.

[Ashmoria]

Ah, I see we've reached the "shriek about how there are no options but 'not at all racist' and 'actively out to kill black people'" phase of the discussion. That's always fun.



Man, did I call it or what?

Sigh.

Again, I find it racist that just because she had black dancers, and incorporated elements from a subculture that just happens to be predominately black, she is a racist. Its basically saying that an artist (insomuch as Cyrus can be called an artist) from one race can't incorporate elements from a subculture composed predominately of another race, without that artist being a racist. Its a form of cultural segregation.

do you have reason to believe she hired the backup singers? many many people have black backup singers, eh?

[The Truth and Light]

While twerking may be stupid and asinine, I just don't see how it's racist.

As for Miley, she may have set the whole struggle to end the objectification of women back by a a year or two.

Forever hating people who knock Twerking.

[Grenartia]

While twerking may be stupid and asinine, I just don't see how it's racist.

As for Miley, she may have set the whole struggle to end the objectification of women back by a a year or two.

Indeed. Twerking has no inherent racial connotations to it.

And not only has she objectified women, she's also set back the struggle for sex-positivity back at least 5 years, by making a total mockery of it.

[The Truth and Light]

Twerking has no inherent racial connotations to it.

That's it. Today is the day I'm leaving the Internet.

[Libertarian California]

While twerking may be stupid and asinine, I just don't see how it's racist.

As for Miley, she may have set the whole struggle to end the objectification of women back by a a year or two.

Forever hating people who knock Twerking.

Uh okay. And?

[Libertarian California]

Twerking has no inherent racial connotations to it.

That's it. Today is the day I'm leaving the Internet.

Do the Bernie, the disco point dance, tango, and swing have racial connotations, too?

[Saruhan]

Well, I just tried to watch the video, and I really don't get it. Not for the dancing and shit but what the hell was she doing with her tongue? The length of it was rather impressive

[Libertarian California]

Well, I just tried to watch the video, and I really don't get it. Not for the dancing and shit but what the hell was she doing with her tongue? The length of it was rather impressive

I was more confused by what she was wearing the teddy bear dancers in the background.

[The Truth and Light]

Forever hating people who knock Twerking.

Uh okay. And?

Calling Twerking "stupid" and "asinine" is similar to going into another culture, perhaps an Indigenous nation, or a nomadic group on a steppe on another continent, or even a city-based culture in a different region, and, upon seeing their traditional dances, saying: "Hmmm. I don't understand this. These people express themselves in a paradigm of different values and customs. I conclude that they are stupid."

In other words, shut up.

[Tahar Joblis]

She's not trying to be black. She's trying to legitimize 'black things', and people don't like that.

I think they don't like that she sucks at it.

I wonder... do the black rappers she's hanging out with think she sucks at it?

http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/171311 ... ance.jhtml
http://hollywoodlife.com/2013/08/23/mil ... a-g-thang/
http://www.businessinsider.com/miley-cy ... ogg-2013-6
http://www.justjared.com/2013/08/27/mil ... -23-video/

Uh... let's make something clear about that, for those of you not reading the links. The people she's "appropriating" from are people she makes music with and hangs out with. The people who are giving her shit for it are generally moralistic busybodies, not rappers. The Huffington Post article? White middle-class mom. Mika Brzezinski? White middle-aged woman. Jody Rosen? White middle-aged man.

[Saruhan]

Well, I just tried to watch the video, and I really don't get it. Not for the dancing and shit but what the hell was she doing with her tongue? The length of it was rather impressive

I was more confused by what she was wearing the teddy bear dancers in the background.

It was just weird and confusing all around really, I mean I hate to break it to you, miley, but you have neither the skill nor physique to do.. whatever it is you're trying to do. It wasn't even fully twerking really, just two people awkwardly grinding on each other on national television

[The Truth and Light]

I think they don't like that she sucks at it.

I wonder... do the black rappers she's hanging out with think she sucks at it?

http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/171311 ... ance.jhtml
http://hollywoodlife.com/2013/08/23/mil ... a-g-thang/
http://www.businessinsider.com/miley-cy ... ogg-2013-6
http://www.justjared.com/2013/08/27/mil ... -23-video/

Uh... let's make something clear about that, for those of you not reading the links. The people she's "appropriating" from are people she makes music with. The people who are giving her shit for it are generally moralistic busybodies, not rappers. The Huffington Post article? White middle-class mom. Mika Brzezinski? White middle-aged woman. Jody Rosen? White middle-aged man.

You actually pointed out something really important, and I thank you for it.

People, it's not necessarily cultural appropriation if people from that culture are freely sharing with someone from the outside. That's just the truth.

[Forsakia]

Uh okay. And?

Calling Twerking "stupid" and "asinine" is similar to going into another culture, perhaps an Indigenous nation, or a nomadic group on a steppe on another continent, or even a city-based culture in a different region, and, upon seeing their traditional dances, saying: "Hmmm. I don't understand this. These people express themselves in a paradigm of different values and customs. I conclude that they are stupid."

In other words, shut up.

How dare they express an opinion on something that comes from outside their own culture.

[The Truth and Light]

Calling Twerking "stupid" and "asinine" is similar to going into another culture, perhaps an Indigenous nation, or a nomadic group on a steppe on another continent, or even a city-based culture in a different region, and, upon seeing their traditional dances, saying: "Hmmm. I don't understand this. These people express themselves in a paradigm of different values and customs. I conclude that they are stupid."

In other words, shut up.

How dare they express an opinion on something that comes from outside their own culture.

Whoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooosh.

[Forsakia]

How dare they express an opinion on something that comes from outside their own culture.

Whoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooosh.

Go on then elaborate.

[Seriong]

Uh okay. And?

Calling Twerking "stupid" and "asinine" is similar to going into another culture, perhaps an Indigenous nation, or a nomadic group on a steppe on another continent, or even a city-based culture in a different region, and, upon seeing their traditional dances, saying: "Hmmm. I don't understand this. These people express themselves in a paradigm of different values and customs. I conclude that they are stupid."

In other words, shut up.

How is this not racist? You are looking at a dance done by some black people in America, and saying it is now part of "Black culture" and that they are an entirely different people from white people.

[Saruhan]

Uh okay. And?

Calling Twerking "stupid" and "asinine" is similar to going into another culture, perhaps an Indigenous nation, or a nomadic group on a steppe on another continent, or even a city-based culture in a different region, and, upon seeing their traditional dances, saying: "Hmmm. I don't understand this. These people express themselves in a paradigm of different values and customs. I conclude that they are stupid."

In other words, shut up.

What. Despite all the differences (and the racist implications of comparing modern urban blacks to a bunch of tribal herders or hunter gatherers) just the idea that everyone must think everything is equal is just strange. I really don't see the problem with being weirded out and thinking something else in another culture is stupid is a bad thing, unless you're a fucking anthropologist

[New England and The Maritimes]

I wonder... do the black rappers she's hanging out with think she sucks at it?

http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/171311 ... ance.jhtml
http://hollywoodlife.com/2013/08/23/mil ... a-g-thang/
http://www.businessinsider.com/miley-cy ... ogg-2013-6
http://www.justjared.com/2013/08/27/mil ... -23-video/

Uh... let's make something clear about that, for those of you not reading the links. The people she's "appropriating" from are people she makes music with. The people who are giving her shit for it are generally moralistic busybodies, not rappers. The Huffington Post article? White middle-class mom. Mika Brzezinski? White middle-aged woman. Jody Rosen? White middle-aged man.

You actually pointed out something really important, and I thank you for it.

People, it's not necessarily cultural appropriation if people from that culture are freely sharing with someone from the outside. That's just the truth.

It's ok. Miley Cyrus has a black friend so she can't possibly send problematic messages or propagate harmful stereotypes. Guess that settles it! I mean, no black men have ever propagated white supremacism implicitly or explicitly in history, right? That never happens. Ever.

[Ashmoria]

I think they don't like that she sucks at it.

I wonder... do the black rappers she's hanging out with think she sucks at it?

http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/171311 ... ance.jhtml
http://hollywoodlife.com/2013/08/23/mil ... a-g-thang/
http://www.businessinsider.com/miley-cy ... ogg-2013-6
http://www.justjared.com/2013/08/27/mil ... -23-video/

Uh... let's make something clear about that, for those of you not reading the links. The people she's "appropriating" from are people she makes music with. The people who are giving her shit for it are generally moralistic busybodies, not rappers. The Huffington Post article? White middle-class mom. Mika Brzezinski? White middle-aged woman. Jody Rosen? White middle-aged man.

I don't know what they think. ive seen twerking and she sucks at it.

I don't have a problem with a 20 year old camping it up at the vmas. its what the vmas are for. I think the whole routine was horrid and she was poorly served by whoever put it together. she needs better management NOW.

[Grenartia]

Twerking has no inherent racial connotations to it.

That's it. Today is the day I'm leaving the Internet.

What? I've seen gifs of white women twerking, black women twerking, hispanic women twerking, etc.

To say there's inherently racial connotations to it is inherently racist.

Uh okay. And?

Calling Twerking "stupid" and "asinine" is similar to going into another culture, perhaps an Indigenous nation, or a nomadic group on a steppe on another continent, or even a city-based culture in a different region, and, upon seeing their traditional dances, saying: "Hmmm. I don't understand this. These people express themselves in a paradigm of different values and customs. I conclude that they are stupid."

In other words, shut up.

Again, there's no racial connotations to twerking. Its not white, not black, not hispanic, not asian, nothing. Or is everybody who drinks champagne wrongfully appropriating French people?

[Libertarian California]

Uh okay. And?

Calling Twerking "stupid" and "asinine" is similar to going into another culture, perhaps an Indigenous nation, or a nomadic group on a steppe on another continent, or even a city-based culture in a different region, and, upon seeing their traditional dances, saying: "Hmmm. I don't understand this. These people express themselves in a paradigm of different values and customs. I conclude that they are stupid."

In other words, shut up.

Given that twerking is a product of my own culture (American popular culture), I'd say that I fully understand it and can therefore call it stupid.

[The Truth and Light]

and the racist implications of comparing modern urban blacks to a bunch of tribal herders or hunter gatherers

Never did I do that.

Hell, I didn't even say the word tribal. Or "Black".

[The Truth and Light]

I wonder... do the black rappers she's hanging out with think she sucks at it?

http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/171311 ... ance.jhtml
http://hollywoodlife.com/2013/08/23/mil ... a-g-thang/
http://www.businessinsider.com/miley-cy ... ogg-2013-6
http://www.justjared.com/2013/08/27/mil ... -23-video/

Uh... let's make something clear about that, for those of you not reading the links. The people she's "appropriating" from are people she makes music with. The people who are giving her shit for it are generally moralistic busybodies, not rappers. The Huffington Post article? White middle-class mom. Mika Brzezinski? White middle-aged woman. Jody Rosen? White middle-aged man.

You actually pointed out something really important, and I thank you for it.

People, it's not necessarily cultural appropriation if people from that culture are freely sharing with someone from the outside. That's just the truth.

^Just for clarification.