The Official Syria (and all things about it) Thread

[Dangelia]

Syriac Christianity. Ther's a difference.

I was referring to Syrian Christianity in general, not just Syriac Orthodoxy.

OK. The poor people. The two kidnapped bishops have been under captivity for overnight 100 days.

[Democratic Koyro]

How about we don't have one enermous monsterous military riding around the world totally unchallenged? Let's not have US military force dictating the legitimacy of other governments.

So you are ok with governments that are run by people like Omar al-Bashir, Pol Pot, etc. because they are the "legitimate" government?

Sorry, when a government starts to murder its own people over trivial things like Religion, politics, or whatever, it lose its legitimacy.

Last i checked armed combatants killing armed combatants is called warfare, not "murder"

[Dangelia]

So you are ok with governments that are run by people like Omar al-Bashir, Pol Pot, etc. because they are the "legitimate" government?

Sorry, when a government starts to murder its own people over trivial things like Religion, politics, or whatever, it lose its legitimacy.

Last i checked armed combatants killing armed combatants is called warfare, not "murder"

The rebels are also killing civilians.

[Srboslavija]

Killing thousands in a civil war isn't a good reason to do something?

US has stated it would be "limited strikes, with no regime change" as the end game.

Basically - bomb Syria a bit and then leave.

Hundreds, if not thousands of civilians will die as US collateral and no significant change will be achieved.

"Assad killed people the wrong way, so we'll go kill them the right way" - imperialist US war machine

[Christmahanikwanzikah]

So you are ok with governments that are run by people like Omar al-Bashir, Pol Pot, etc. because they are the "legitimate" government?

Sorry, when a government starts to murder its own people over trivial things like Religion, politics, or whatever, it lose its legitimacy.

Last i checked armed combatants killing armed combatants is called warfare, not "murder"

Last I checked, sending tanks in to a demonstration in order to break it up got China in some hot water.

[Neoconstantius]

I was referring to Syrian Christianity in general, not just Syriac Orthodoxy.

OK. The poor people. The two kidnapped bishops have been under captivity for overnight 100 days.

Indeed. Not to mention this news which surfaced earlier today: http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-202_162-576 ... n-village/

Simply atrocious.

[Dangelia]

Killing thousands in a civil war isn't a good reason to do something?

US has stated it would be "limited strikes, with no regime change" as the end game.

Basically - bomb Syria a bit and then leave.

Hundreds, if not thousands of civilians will die as US collateral and no significant change will be achieved.

"Assad killed people the wrong way, so we'll go kill them the right way" - imperialist US war machine

I just put it in my sig.

[Democratic Koyro]

Killing thousands in a civil war isn't a good reason to do something?

US has stated it would be "limited strikes, with no regime change" as the end game.

Basically - bomb Syria a bit and then leave.

Hundreds, if not thousands of civilians will die as US collateral and no significant change will be achieved.

"Assad killed people the wrong way, so we'll go kill them the right way" - imperialist US war machine

It's ok when you do it with a remotely piloted terror-robot or a ship or something they can't fight back against, but not when you actually fight in the streets. Yay America.

[Dangelia]

OK. The poor people. The two kidnapped bishops have been under captivity for overnight 100 days.

Indeed. Not to mention this news which surfaced earlier today: http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-202_162-576 ... n-village/

Simply atrocious.

This is what the government needs to put a stop on.

[Democratic Koyro]

Last i checked armed combatants killing armed combatants is called warfare, not "murder"

The rebels are also killing civilians.

Indeed they have. FSA is going to go the same was as the RUF in Sierra Leone, brutality for sake of brutality.

[Shofercia]

Another good point, but as I've said countless times we shouldn't jump straight to force and military intervention.

Sometimes to not use force allows people like Assad or Omar al-Bashir to get away with murder and crimes agasint Humanity.

I would hate to see the world if we decided to not fight in WW2 agasint Hitler because the Anti-War groups got their way.

War is a horrible terrible thing that should never been used...but the world is never perfect so when duty calls, we have to choose either to fight or to allow monsters to get away with their crimes...I would pick fighting everytime.

Erm, you do realize that anti-war groups initially got their way, and Hitler still lost, right? Did you miss all of your history lessons, or just part of them?

Since people love comparing this to Hitler, let me point out the differences.

Prior to 1938, (that's before the end of December, 1937,) Hitler was just your average European Politician. He wasn't even the worst. Just ask the Congolese. Anyways, Hitler's Crimes began to manifest in 1938. And that was the year to take him down. In 1938, Hitler could've been stopped, because there was:

1. A clear aggressor, beyond a reasonable doubt: Hitler demanded that Czechs & Slovaks give him land!
2. A coalition willing and ready to fight: Romania, Yugoslavia, Czechoslovakia, USSR & France.

Are any of those terms met here? Where's the coalition? The French, with no popular domestic support? War weary Americans? And where's the proof? "Oh, we said so, we know more!" Doesn't count.

[Souriya Al-Assad]

The rebels are also killing civilians.

Indeed they have. FSA is going to go the same was as the RUF in Sierra Leone, brutality for sake of brutality.

Or the UNITA in Angola, or the contras in Latin America... need I say more?

The FSA is so vile I can be compared to those examples. (May Bashar smite them all)

[Orcoa]

Killing thousands in a civil war isn't a good reason to do something?

US has stated it would be "limited strikes, with no regime change" as the end game.

Basically - bomb Syria a bit and then leave.

Hundreds, if not thousands of civilians will die as US collateral and no significant change will be achieved.

"Assad killed people the wrong way, so we'll go kill them the right way" - imperialist US war machine

So where is your sources for our strikes that will be launched at civilians?

Oh and I love your little Imperialist US war machine and how you seem to enjoy Russia a bit. Let me remind you who is imperialist again.
[url]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Chechen_War[/url]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Chechen_War
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_South_Ossetia_war

[Souriya Al-Assad]

US has stated it would be "limited strikes, with no regime change" as the end game.

Basically - bomb Syria a bit and then leave.

Hundreds, if not thousands of civilians will die as US collateral and no significant change will be achieved.

"Assad killed people the wrong way, so we'll go kill them the right way" - imperialist US war machine

I just put it in my sig.

I might as well too.

[Souriya Al-Assad]

US has stated it would be "limited strikes, with no regime change" as the end game.

Basically - bomb Syria a bit and then leave.

Hundreds, if not thousands of civilians will die as US collateral and no significant change will be achieved.

"Assad killed people the wrong way, so we'll go kill them the right way" - imperialist US war machine

So where is your sources for our strikes that will be launched at civilians?

Oh and I love your little Imperialist US war machine and how you seem to enjoy Russia a bit. Let me remind you who is imperialist again.
[url]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Chechen_War[/url]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Chechen_War
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_South_Ossetia_war

Russia has only intervened in five wars (most of whom she was unwittingly dragged into), compared to more than 160 by the American government, or many more if you add our European governments into the equation.

[Neoconstantius]

US has stated it would be "limited strikes, with no regime change" as the end game.

Basically - bomb Syria a bit and then leave.

Hundreds, if not thousands of civilians will die as US collateral and no significant change will be achieved.

"Assad killed people the wrong way, so we'll go kill them the right way" - imperialist US war machine

So where is your sources for our strikes that will be launched at civilians?

Oh and I love your little Imperialist US war machine and how you seem to enjoy Russia a bit. Let me remind you who is imperialist again.
[url]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Chechen_War[/url]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Chechen_War
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_South_Ossetia_war

Right. Because defending your own citizens against radical Islamist separatists is imperialism now. Better go change the dictionary.

[The Republic of Lanos]

Neville, is that you?

Neville had a coalition ready to go, against a clear aggressor. It was proven beyond a reasonable doubt that Hitler was guilty, and Czechs and Slovaks were innocent. All I'm asking for, is the same standard of proof. But you're not giving that to me. All you're saying is "I said so, trust me!" That's not going to win my support.

He had a piece of paper proving Hitler wasn't going to act further.

[Christmahanikwanzikah]

Sometimes to not use force allows people like Assad or Omar al-Bashir to get away with murder and crimes agasint Humanity.

I would hate to see the world if we decided to not fight in WW2 agasint Hitler because the Anti-War groups got their way.

War is a horrible terrible thing that should never been used...but the world is never perfect so when duty calls, we have to choose either to fight or to allow monsters to get away with their crimes...I would pick fighting everytime.

Erm, you do realize that anti-war groups initially got their way, and Hitler still lost, right? Did you miss all of your history lessons, or just part of them?

How many more people were slaughtered by Hitler after FDR finally intervened and before Berlin fell?

[Grand Britannia]

US has stated it would be "limited strikes, with no regime change" as the end game.

Basically - bomb Syria a bit and then leave.

Hundreds, if not thousands of civilians will die as US collateral and no significant change will be achieved.

"Assad killed people the wrong way, so we'll go kill them the right way" - imperialist US war machine

So where is your sources for our strikes that will be launched at civilians?

Oh and I love your little Imperialist US war machine and how you seem to enjoy Russia a bit. Let me remind you who is imperialist again.
[url]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Chechen_War[/url]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Chechen_War
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_South_Ossetia_war

Georgia started the last one, just saying.

[Shofercia]

US has stated it would be "limited strikes, with no regime change" as the end game.

Basically - bomb Syria a bit and then leave.

Hundreds, if not thousands of civilians will die as US collateral and no significant change will be achieved.

"Assad killed people the wrong way, so we'll go kill them the right way" - imperialist US war machine

So where is your sources for our strikes that will be launched at civilians?

Oh and I love your little Imperialist US war machine and how you seem to enjoy Russia a bit. Let me remind you who is imperialist again.
[url]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Chechen_War[/url]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Chechen_War
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_South_Ossetia_war

First Chechen War - Chechnya rebels against Russia. Apparently putting down a revolt is imperialist, right? So tell me, Orcoa, was Abraham Lincoln an Imperialist Pig?

Second Chechen War - Chechnya, after de facto independence, attacks Dagestan, an integral part of Russia, and informs Russia that they'll be annexing quite a bit of Russia, to expand themselves.

Ossetian War - started by Georgia.

[Souriya Al-Assad]

So where is your sources for our strikes that will be launched at civilians?

Oh and I love your little Imperialist US war machine and how you seem to enjoy Russia a bit. Let me remind you who is imperialist again.
[url]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Chechen_War[/url]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Chechen_War
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_South_Ossetia_war

Right. Because defending your own citizens against radical Islamist separatists is imperialism now. Better go change the dictionary.

Thank you.

So where is your sources for our strikes that will be launched at civilians?

Oh and I love your little Imperialist US war machine and how you seem to enjoy Russia a bit. Let me remind you who is imperialist again.
[url]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Chechen_War[/url]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Chechen_War
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_South_Ossetia_war

First Chechen War - Chechnya rebels against Russia. Apparently putting down a revolt is imperialist, right? So tell me, Orcoa, was Abraham Lincoln an Imperialist Pig?

Second Chechen War - Chechnya, after de facto independence, attacks Dagestan, an integral part of Russia, and informs Russia that they'll be annexing quite a bit of Russia, to expand themselves.

Ossetian War - started by Georgia.

Very true.

[Shofercia]

Neville had a coalition ready to go, against a clear aggressor. It was proven beyond a reasonable doubt that Hitler was guilty, and Czechs and Slovaks were innocent. All I'm asking for, is the same standard of proof. But you're not giving that to me. All you're saying is "I said so, trust me!" That's not going to win my support.

He had a piece of paper proving Hitler wasn't going to act further.

Not enough. And again, the situation now is different from what Chamberlain had: Obama's allies are scant, and we don't know who used chemical weapons, we don't even know if they were deliberately used!

[Christmahanikwanzikah]

He had a piece of paper proving Hitler wasn't going to act further.

Not enough. And again, the situation now is different from what Chamberlain had: Obama's allies are scant, and we don't know who used chemical weapons, we don't even know if they were deliberately used!

"Oooooops, I accidentally hit the GREEN button instead of the RED button!"

[Shofercia]

Erm, you do realize that anti-war groups initially got their way, and Hitler still lost, right? Did you miss all of your history lessons, or just part of them?

How many more people were slaughtered by Hitler after FDR finally intervened and before Berlin fell?

Quite a bit. Mostly civilians. Many more than were slaughtered before FDR's Intervention.

[Shofercia]

Not enough. And again, the situation now is different from what Chamberlain had: Obama's allies are scant, and we don't know who used chemical weapons, we don't even know if they were deliberately used!

"Oooooops, I accidentally hit the GREEN button instead of the RED button!"

Ghouta, Syria...

“My son came to me two weeks ago asking what I thought the weapons were that he had been asked to carry,” said Abu Abdel-Moneim, the father of a rebel fighting to unseat Assad, who lives in Ghouta. Abdel-Moneim said his son and 12 other rebels were killed inside of a tunnel used to store weapons provided by a Saudi militant, known as Abu Ayesha, who was leading a fighting battalion. The father described the weapons as having a “tube-like structure” while others were like a “huge gas bottle.” Ghouta townspeople said the rebels were using mosques and private houses to sleep while storing their weapons in tunnels. Abdel-Moneim said his son and the others died during the chemical weapons attack. That same day, the militant group Jabhat al-Nusra, which is linked to al-Qaida, announced that it would similarly attack civilians in the Assad regime’s heartland of Latakia on Syria’s western coast, in purported retaliation.“They didn’t tell us what these arms were or how to use them,” complained a female fighter named ‘K.’

“We didn’t know they were chemical weapons. We never imagined they were chemical weapons. When Saudi Prince Bandar gives such weapons to people, he must give them to those who know how to handle and use them,” she warned. She, like other Syrians, do not want to use their full names for fear of retribution. A well-known rebel leader in Ghouta named ‘J’ agreed. “Jabhat al-Nusra militants do not cooperate with other rebels, except with fighting on the ground. They do not share secret information. They merely used some ordinary rebels to carry and operate this material,” he said. “We were very curious about these arms. And unfortunately, some of the fighters handled the weapons improperly and set off the explosions,” ‘J’ said.