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Booze and Rape

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The Rich Port
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Booze and Rape

Postby The Rich Port » Tue Aug 27, 2013 5:12 pm

Being a college student as I am, booze and sex are constants in your life. At parties, at home, at bars, designated sober drivers shuttle me and many others like me to our beds, where we may sleep it off.

Often, the two combine, sometimes for better, but sometimes for worse. Acquaintance rape is on the rise, and has been for a while. I've been worrying about falling into it, and often just go to bars to drink, not to pick up chicks or even socialize. I would much rather avoid hurting someone and subsequently hurting myself with jail.

One question that has plagued me is this: if I'm drunk, and the girl I have sex with is drunk, is it rape?

The stereotypical acquaintance rape is when a man intoxicates a woman with a narcotic, directly or indirectly, to take advantage of her.

So, I ask: if both parties are drunk, is it double rape? Is rape nullified? Should either party report the other to the police? Should both parties be put in jail?
Last edited by The Rich Port on Tue Aug 27, 2013 5:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Cadaver breadsticks
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Postby Cadaver breadsticks » Tue Aug 27, 2013 5:16 pm

The Rich Port wrote:One question that has plagued me is this: if I'm drunk, and the girl I have sex with is drunk, is it rape?

if you both consent then I doubt so. if either says no, then yes.

but if you aren't drunk, don't have sex with someone who is unless they consent prior to getting drunk. or something along those lines.
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Farnhamia
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Postby Farnhamia » Tue Aug 27, 2013 5:17 pm

The Rich Port wrote:Being a college student as I am, booze and sex are constants in your life. At parties, at home, at bars, designated sober drivers shuttle me and many others like me to our beds, where we may sleep it off.

Often, the two combine, sometimes for better, but sometimes for worse. Acquaintance rape is on the rise, and has been for a while. I've been worrying about falling into it, and often just go to bars to drink, not to pick up chicks or even socialize. I would much rather avoid hurting someone and subsequently hurting myself with jail.

One question that has plagued me is this: if I'm drunk, and the girl I have sex with is drunk, is it rape?

The stereotypical acquaintance rape is when a man intoxicates a woman with a narcotic, directly or indirectly, to take advantage of her.

So, I ask: if both parties are drunk, is it double rape? Is rape nullified? Should either party report the other to the police? Should both parties be put in jail?

It's a sticky question and I daresay you'll be sorry you asked before the thread sinks away to oblivion. Allow me to suggest that you have a law student draw up a no-fault declaration for you covering all those contingencies and that you ask each young woman you meet to sign it. It will be a little embarrassing but may save you a lot of trouble later on.
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Rawrckia
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Postby Rawrckia » Tue Aug 27, 2013 5:18 pm

If a woman doesn't think there's alcohol in her drink then it can be considered drugging her. If she has sex afterwards this could be considered rape.

However, thinking that they suddenly are liberated from responsibility when they decided to have 8 drinks is ridiculous. If you get a bit tipsy and drive a car, is it suddenly not your fault that you were impaired? If you take hallicinogens and drive and get into an accident, is it not your fault for taking the drugs?
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The Rich Port
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Postby The Rich Port » Tue Aug 27, 2013 5:25 pm

Cadaver breadsticks wrote:
The Rich Port wrote:One question that has plagued me is this: if I'm drunk, and the girl I have sex with is drunk, is it rape?

if you both consent then I doubt so. if either says no, then yes.

but if you aren't drunk, don't have sex with someone who is unless they consent prior to getting drunk. or something along those lines.


That's what all the talks and conventions and rallies I go to have as a main theme, so, yeah, I doubt I'll ever do such a thing when I have a Paris Hilton wannabe clutching onto my shirt willingly. It's kind of scary how quickly it can go bad for me. It doesn't help the bias against male rape victims is painfully alive and kicking, my guess even more painfully present considering this is fucking Florida.

Farnhamia wrote:It's a sticky question and I daresay you'll be sorry you asked before the thread sinks away to oblivion. Allow me to suggest that you have a law student draw up a no-fault declaration for you covering all those contingencies and that you ask each young woman you meet to sign it. It will be a little embarrassing but may save you a lot of trouble later on.


It's not like I encounter the problem regularly. I'm very careful and I moderate myself. I wonder if, in the hypothetical that we're both drunk, I'll remember to bust it out and whether she'll be able to sign it. Oh, my. :lol:

Nothing kills the mood faster than legal jargon, but maybe I'll do that. Hell, it might even be an ice breaker if the girl's a paralegal or pre-law majorette.

Rawrckia wrote:If a woman doesn't think there's alcohol in her drink then it can be considered drugging her. If she has sex afterwards this could be considered rape.

However, thinking that they suddenly are liberated from responsibility when they decided to have 8 drinks is ridiculous. If you get a bit tipsy and drive a car, is it suddenly not your fault that you were impaired? If you take hallicinogens and drive and get into an accident, is it not your fault for taking the drugs?


The issue of consent when you're both drunk is not so simple.

When you're intoxicated or otherwise impaired, you're considered incapable of consent. Doctors can't make you sign consent waivers when you're doped up on morphine, nor can you presume consent even after a girl says "yes", lest she change her mind and have a solid case for date rape because she was drunk and you were not.

There's a difference between driving a car (an activity that only requires a driver) and sex.
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Hathradic States
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Postby Hathradic States » Tue Aug 27, 2013 5:27 pm

If you both are drunk off of your asses, then no, it's not rape. It's called drunk sex.

However, if one party gives the other alcohol without them knowing (it can be the guy or girl. I have reason to know), then it might be considered rape.
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Genivaria
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Postby Genivaria » Tue Aug 27, 2013 5:29 pm

In my opinion being drunk not only means you lack the ability to consent, but also the ability to IGNORE the lack of consent.
So if both parties are drunk I would not call it rape.
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Quintium
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Postby Quintium » Tue Aug 27, 2013 5:29 pm

The Rich Port wrote:Being a college student as I am, booze and sex are constants in your life. At parties, at home, at bars, designated sober drivers shuttle me and many others like me to our beds, where we may sleep it off.


Sounds like your student life is infinitely more exciting than mine.

The Rich Port wrote:One question that has plagued me is this: if I'm drunk, and the girl I have sex with is drunk, is it rape?


A rule of the thumb that I've picked up on: don't do drunk chicks, especially if you don't know them well. There's always the risk that they'll have to explain their absence during the night to their parents, their roommates or their boyfriend, and one excuse that seems to be used from time to time can get you detained, interrogated and put on trial.

The Rich Port wrote:So, I ask: if both parties are drunk, is it double rape? Is rape nullified? Should either party report the other to the police? Should both parties be put in jail?


As far as I know, drunk sex is just that - drunk sex. It doesn't really become rape until one party is so intoxicated they reach a severely impaired state of consciousness - that is, passed out or nearly passed out and unable to carry out any meaningful tasks - not even staggering to bed - autonomously. If it turns out both parties were drunk, I suppose judges or juries, depending on where you live, will be quite lenient when accusations are brought before them.
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Postby Fartsniffage » Tue Aug 27, 2013 5:30 pm

My opinion on this is -

Drug a girl - rape
Intentionally get a girl drunk - rape
Drink together and end up in bed - not rape

I think the intention is what matters. Getting drunk with someone and then having sex isn't always the best idea but I don't think it's malevolent unless you had the intention of getting them drunk in order to obtain sex. I've woken up with people that I probably wouldn't have chosen to sleep with in the cold light of dawn but I've never considered it rape.

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The Rich Port
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Postby The Rich Port » Tue Aug 27, 2013 5:35 pm

Quintium wrote:
The Rich Port wrote:Being a college student as I am, booze and sex are constants in your life. At parties, at home, at bars, designated sober drivers shuttle me and many others like me to our beds, where we may sleep it off.


Sounds like your student life is infinitely more exciting than mine.

The Rich Port wrote:One question that has plagued me is this: if I'm drunk, and the girl I have sex with is drunk, is it rape?


A rule of the thumb that I've picked up on: don't do drunk chicks, especially if you don't know them well. There's always the risk that they'll have to explain their absence during the night to their parents, their roommates or their boyfriend, and one excuse that seems to be used from time to time can get you detained, interrogated and put on trial.

The Rich Port wrote:So, I ask: if both parties are drunk, is it double rape? Is rape nullified? Should either party report the other to the police? Should both parties be put in jail?


As far as I know, drunk sex is just that - drunk sex. It doesn't really become rape until one party is so intoxicated they reach a severely impaired state of consciousness - that is, passed out or nearly passed out and unable to carry out any meaningful tasks - not even staggering to bed - autonomously. If it turns out both parties were drunk, I suppose judges or juries, depending on where you live, will be quite lenient when accusations are brought before them.


Meh. Parties can be a chore, too. :p

A couple of my male acquaintances suggested such a thing, and, frankly, while I am looking for love, this being the time to do it according to my psychology textbook, the kinda chicks that go out to bars aren't my cup of tea, especially considering they're Floridians.

I've also been told drunk sex is very difficult to accomplish. I like to think the girl and I will be in such ridiculous positions when we regain consciousness that we'll just never speak of the incident again out of mutual shame.
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Warda
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Postby Warda » Tue Aug 27, 2013 5:36 pm

you could just drink less
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Postby Cadaver breadsticks » Tue Aug 27, 2013 5:38 pm

Warda wrote:you could just drink less

that's no fun
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Rawrckia
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Postby Rawrckia » Tue Aug 27, 2013 5:38 pm

The Rich Port wrote:
Rawrckia wrote:If a woman doesn't think there's alcohol in her drink then it can be considered drugging her. If she has sex afterwards this could be considered rape.

However, thinking that they suddenly are liberated from responsibility when they decided to have 8 drinks is ridiculous. If you get a bit tipsy and drive a car, is it suddenly not your fault that you were impaired? If you take hallicinogens and drive and get into an accident, is it not your fault for taking the drugs?


The issue of consent when you're both drunk is not so simple.

When you're intoxicated or otherwise impaired, you're considered incapable of consent. Doctors can't make you sign consent waivers when you're doped up on morphine, nor can you presume consent even after a girl says "yes", lest she change her mind and have a solid case for date rape because she was drunk and you were not.

There's a difference between driving a car (an activity that only requires a driver) and sex.


Doctors can't make you sign consent waivers when you're drugged out of your mind because you didn't choose to take morphine, they gave it to you. And morphine was likely out of medical necessity, it's not something recreational like alcohol (unless you steal it and misuse it)
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The Rich Port
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Postby The Rich Port » Tue Aug 27, 2013 5:41 pm

Warda wrote:you could just drink less


... Don't even joke like that.

Rawrckia wrote:
The Rich Port wrote:

The issue of consent when you're both drunk is not so simple.

When you're intoxicated or otherwise impaired, you're considered incapable of consent. Doctors can't make you sign consent waivers when you're doped up on morphine, nor can you presume consent even after a girl says "yes", lest she change her mind and have a solid case for date rape because she was drunk and you were not.

There's a difference between driving a car (an activity that only requires a driver) and sex.


Doctors can't make you sign consent waivers when you're drugged out of your mind because you didn't choose to take morphine, they gave it to you. And morphine was likely out of medical necessity, it's not something recreational like alcohol (unless you steal it and misuse it)


Exactly.

You can't inject that chick with your needle in the same way for the same reasons if she's high. Um... Well, not exactly like that, it's not like sex is ever a medical necessity, but... The analogy is there.
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Postby Seriong » Tue Aug 27, 2013 5:42 pm

A) You really could have gone with a more graceful title.

B) You're going to have a bad time with this thread once it gets off the ground

C) If she's drunk, and drank the alcohol of her own choice, knowing she could become intoxicated, and then consents, you're probably fine.
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Postby Rawrckia » Tue Aug 27, 2013 5:42 pm

Cadaver breadsticks wrote:
Warda wrote:you could just drink less

that's no fun


I guarantee it's more fun than waking up and not knowing how many guys you slept with
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Warda
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Postby Warda » Tue Aug 27, 2013 5:44 pm

Rawrckia wrote:
Cadaver breadsticks wrote:that's no fun


I guarantee it's more fun than waking up and not knowing how many guys you slept with

i also heard its cheaper
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Postby Fartsniffage » Tue Aug 27, 2013 5:44 pm

Warda wrote:you could just drink less


neva!!!

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Cadaver breadsticks
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Postby Cadaver breadsticks » Tue Aug 27, 2013 5:45 pm

Warda wrote:
Rawrckia wrote:
I guarantee it's more fun than waking up and not knowing how many guys you slept with

i also heard its cheaper

but alcohol
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The Rich Port
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Postby The Rich Port » Tue Aug 27, 2013 5:45 pm

Seriong wrote:A) You really could have gone with a more graceful title.

B) You're going to have a bad time with this thread once it gets off the ground

C) If she's drunk, and drank the alcohol of her own choice, knowing she could become intoxicated, and then consents, you're probably fine.


O RLY? Maybe I should put up some suggestions in a poll. :D

I assumed as much when I posted it, and I'm not sure I'll be the one having a bad time. Hell, I might just have a good time.

I wouldn't be so quick to jump on that bandwagon. Remember: people who are intoxicated can't consent.

Rawrckia wrote:
Cadaver breadsticks wrote:that's no fun


I guarantee it's more fun than waking up and not knowing how many guys you slept with


... Sweet Baby Jesus. :shock:
Last edited by The Rich Port on Tue Aug 27, 2013 5:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
LAUGH, AND GROW FAT
FIRE. IF IT TAKES YOU TO BURN.
FIRE. IF IT TAKES YOU TO LEARN.
FIRE. TO DESTROY ALL YOU'VE DONE.
FIRE. TO DESTROY ALL YOU'VE BECOME.
THOSE THAT SOW THORNS SHOULD NOT EXPECT FLOWERS.
YOU NEVER KNOW JUST HOW YOU LOOK THROUGH OTHER PEOPLE'S EYES.

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Postby Greed and Death » Tue Aug 27, 2013 5:47 pm

Warda wrote:you could just drink less

My doctor tells me this all the time, it ain't happening. Transplant list or no transplant list.
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Quintium
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Postby Quintium » Tue Aug 27, 2013 5:47 pm

Cadaver breadsticks wrote:
Warda wrote:i also heard its cheaper

but alcohol


Personally, I'm not really keen on alcohol. I don't drink alcohol at all - but I do have prescription painkillers for a bit of a ruined nose. Does that count?
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Postby Fartsniffage » Tue Aug 27, 2013 5:48 pm

Seriong wrote:C) If she's drunk, and drank the alcohol of her own choice, knowing she could become intoxicated, and then consents, you're probably fine.


If you're sober as a judge? That's dodgy both legally, and more importantly, morally.

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Rawrckia
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Postby Rawrckia » Tue Aug 27, 2013 5:48 pm

Warda wrote:
Rawrckia wrote:
I guarantee it's more fun than waking up and not knowing how many guys you slept with

i also heard its cheaper


And you won't even have to hire a prosecutor!
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Warda
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Postby Warda » Tue Aug 27, 2013 5:49 pm

Quintium wrote:
Cadaver breadsticks wrote:but alcohol


Personally, I'm not really keen on alcohol. I don't drink alcohol at all - but I do have prescription painkillers for a bit of a ruined nose. Does that count?

i stopped drinking wine at communion for a while :unsure:
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