Russia - Gay Rights - Sochi Olympics Megathread

[Liriena]

To Free Tristania:

What if you lived in Russia and were LGBT? Would you say that it's OK that you might be reported to the police, denied jobs, arrested, beaten, or worse for something you can't help because it's the law? Would you say it's OK that you're being mindlessly discriminated against for who you are because Putin said so? You said that human rights were worth as much as the piece of paper they were printed on and no more, but that's not true. Human rights are worth these peoples' lives and livelihoods. These people are people, they are human, just like you and me, and therefore the basic fundamental human rights should apply to them. '

I know you probably will just evade the argument or come up with some counterproductive answer like you have the last few times, but I want you to think about this.

The question is perfectly irrelevant and the answer is the same. I am not in the position (thankfully) but if I am in Russia I need to adhere to Russian laws. Tough shit but that's how it is. Deal with it.

Actually, no. Unless the Russian Federation is a carbon copy of North Korea already, even in the face of these absurd laws people still have the right to advocate for changes in policy. If faced with persecution for their advocacy, they can resort to asylum in a foreign territory and/or appeal to their own nation's justice system or, if that fails, international courts. Though international courts may not have a gigantic police force to enforce their rulings, they still have substantial legal weight. Whether the Russian Federation or any other country wishes to abide by said rulings or not, the rulings will still be there, and as legitimate jurisprudence, they'll have weight when the fight for human rights returns to the country in question's political system.

[Liriena]

I hate this latest brand of edgy cynicism.

You might hate it.. but this is what the world is like. It's time to wake up from your slumber and smell the coffee.

I'm sorry, but I have a personal policy of not succumbing to self-destructive and/or narcissistic delusions.

[Liriena]

Now are you going to respond to our arguments, or will you keep up the childish sniping?

I wasn't aware that "bullshit" was an argument. (Talk about childish.)

I wrote an entire post of several hundred words, and the only thing you find worthy of your response is my foul language? Give me a fucking break.

[Free Tristania]

The question is perfectly irrelevant and the answer is the same. I am not in the position (thankfully) but if I am in Russia I need to adhere to Russian laws. Tough shit but that's how it is. Deal with it.

Actually, no. Unless the Russian Federation is a carbon copy of North Korea already, even in the face of these absurd laws people still have the right to advocate for changes in policy. If faced with persecution for their advocacy, they can resort to asylum in a foreign territory and/or appeal to their own nation's justice system or, if that fails, international courts. Though international courts may not have a gigantic police force to enforce their rulings, they still have substantial legal weight. Whether the Russian Federation or any other country wishes to abide by said rulings or not, the rulings will still be there, and as legitimate jurisprudence, they'll have weight when the fight for human rights returns to the country in question's political system.

International courts are perfectly useless because no one cares about their verdicts. Ever seen the U.S honouring international law ? Exactly. So.. the only real solution would be, for such a person, to go to the West.

[Free Tristania]

You might hate it.. but this is what the world is like. It's time to wake up from your slumber and smell the coffee.

I'm sorry, but I have a personal policy of not succumbing to self-destructive and/or narcissistic delusions.

So you prefer to be dreaming. I am sorry, mate, but you will wake up one day and it won't be pretty.

[Liriena]

No, you see...your cynicism, while cute, does not change the fact that human rights laws are legally binding. Whether some nations abide by them or not is irrelevant. A law is a law. Whether nations enforce them or not, it's still legitimate. The legitimacy of a law is not determined by the willingness of its subjects to abide by it. A crime is still a crime even if there is no police to capture the culprit, no courts to sentence the culprit, or no prisons in which to imprison the culprit.

1. International laws in a world of power players are worth as much as the paper it has been written on.
2. So either come up with a decent police force or see the crooks walk.
3. And to be quite honest with you: that police force would have to be kept in check as well. You know Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

1. If that were true, there would not be so many countries that willingly make international law legally binding on a local level.
2.
3.

[Scholencia]

Well, the majority of people did not even know that they do exist, it is different from what you are talking about. They are also not masculine enough which many people from Eastern Europe makes difficult for their indetity.

Stereotypes =/= reality

That are not steretypes, it is reality?

Also, Eminem is an awesome rapper.

[Regnum Dominae]

Stereotypes =/= reality

That are not steretypes, it is reality.

How?

and:

They are also not masculine enough

Fuck gender roles.

[Free Tristania]

1. International laws in a world of power players are worth as much as the paper it has been written on.
2. So either come up with a decent police force or see the crooks walk.
3. And to be quite honest with you: that police force would have to be kept in check as well. You know Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

1. If that were true, there would not be so many countries that willingly make international law legally binding on a local level.
2.
3.

1. It's called lip service.
2. Yes think about that.
3. Yes think about that.

[Coccygia]

I wasn't aware that "bullshit" was an argument. (Talk about childish.)

It ain't bullshit.

I was quoting Liriena's comment about "taking my bullshit post elsewhere". Hence the quotes. Guess you were too pissed off to notice.

[Regnum Dominae]

[...]

Also, Eminem is an awesome rapper.

What the FUCK does that have to do with LGBT rights in Russia, the topic of this thread?

[Scholencia]

That are not steretypes, it is reality.

How?

I explained already, there was not spoken about gay so the most people did not known they existed. This is the reason of homophobia and why gays are freaks to most of them.

[Liriena]

Actually, no. Unless the Russian Federation is a carbon copy of North Korea already, even in the face of these absurd laws people still have the right to advocate for changes in policy. If faced with persecution for their advocacy, they can resort to asylum in a foreign territory and/or appeal to their own nation's justice system or, if that fails, international courts. Though international courts may not have a gigantic police force to enforce their rulings, they still have substantial legal weight. Whether the Russian Federation or any other country wishes to abide by said rulings or not, the rulings will still be there, and as legitimate jurisprudence, they'll have weight when the fight for human rights returns to the country in question's political system.

1. International courts are perfectly useless because no one cares about their verdicts.
2. Ever seen the U.S honouring international law ?
3. Exactly.
4. So.. the only real solution would be, for such a person, to go to the West.

1. I want a source for that assertion, please.
2. Not that I can recall. Then again, I haven't spent that much time in Wikipedia, so I would refrain from making a hasty generalization. That goes for you too.
3. Pro-tip: If you make a rhetorical question, don't answer it with a lie.
4. Not necessarily...and let's not even mention how impractical and stupid that idea is.

[Liriena]

I'm sorry, but I have a personal policy of not succumbing to self-destructive and/or narcissistic delusions.

So you prefer to be dreaming. I am sorry, mate, but you will wake up one day and it won't be pretty.

You would be correct...were it not for the fact that I'm an Argentinian.

[Free Tristania]

1. International courts are perfectly useless because no one cares about their verdicts.
2. Ever seen the U.S honouring international law ?
3. Exactly.
4. So.. the only real solution would be, for such a person, to go to the West.

1. I want a source for that assertion, please.
2. Not that I can recall. Then again, I haven't spent that much time in Wikipedia, so I would refrain from making a hasty generalization. That goes for you too.
3. Pro-tip: If you make a rhetorical question, don't answer it with a lie.
4. Not necessarily...and let's not even mention how impractical and stupid that idea is.

1. Take a good look around and see for yourself. Watch the daily news and watch politics. Learn.
2. Exactly. Maybe you should pay more attention to international affairs after all.
3. It's like a police force in a town: without one the crooks riot.
4. What then: stay in a country where you'll be imprisoned or shot ? Who are you, man ? Jesus Christ ? Do you like martyrdom ? I can assure you: the best thing he could do is to get the hell out of there.

[Liriena]

Stereotypes =/= reality

That are not steretypes, it is reality?

Actually, they are stereotypes, and lousy ones at that. Though many gay men are effeminate, and the Western media has been more than happy to turn those gay men into the alleged norm, the reality is most gay men are not effeminate at all. Many gay men are as macho as they come.

[Liriena]

How?

I explained already, there was not spoken about gay so the most people did not known they existed. This is the reason of homophobia and why gays are freaks to most of them.

Source, please.

[Liriena]

It's called lip service.

Source, please.

[Free Tristania]

So you prefer to be dreaming. I am sorry, mate, but you will wake up one day and it won't be pretty.

You would be correct...were it not for the fact that I'm an Argentinian.

Even better: then you can ask the good people of the generation before you where dreaming got you during the Videla Days. You of all people should know. Those brave people (no doubt about it) paid with their lives and it was in vain. The only thing that actually saved them was Argentina losing the Falklands War.

[Free Tristania]

It's called lip service.

Source, please.

Isn't complaining about Russia's treatment of homosexuals while detaining people without trial, keeping Guantanamo open, hunting down whistleblowers, having Prism enough source for you as it is ? Wake up.

[American Pride]

another one of these Gezz we need some new topics this is the 20th thread about Gays and Russia

[Regnum Dominae]

another one of these Gezz we need some new topics this is the 20th thread about Gays and Russia

Don't like it? Don't post.

Like it or not, this is a serious issue.

[Trollgaard]

another one of these Gezz we need some new topics this is the 20th thread about Gays and Russia

Don't like it? Don't post.

Like it or not, this is a serious issue.

Not really.

[Scholencia]

That are not steretypes, it is reality?

Actually, they are stereotypes, and lousy ones at that. Though many gay men are effeminate, and the Western media has been more than happy to turn those gay men into the alleged norm, the reality is most gay men are not effeminate at all. Many gay men are as macho as they come.

Source , please.

[Regnum Dominae]

Don't like it? Don't post.

Like it or not, this is a serious issue.

Not really.

How is it not a serious issue?