Russia - Gay Rights - Sochi Olympics Megathread

[Free Tristania]

It's time for a realism check. Which is one of the two is stronger ?

[Liriena]

I said STOP LYING.

And that's why no gives two shits about what they have to say.

[Free Tristania]

Not o.k.. the legality is irrelevant and there is nothing.. perfectly nothing that we can do about it.

So you think that action shouldn't be taken if that happened?

What action could be taken ? Nothing.

[Free Tristania]

Neither has this one. There goes your point.

I fail to see how.

Read back and learn.

[Coccygia]

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It's time for a realism check. Which is one of the two is stronger ?

Paper covers knife?

[Blekksprutia]

To Free Tristania:

What if you lived in Russia and were LGBT? Would you say that it's OK that you might be reported to the police, denied jobs, arrested, beaten, or worse for something you can't help because it's the law? Would you say it's OK that you're being mindlessly discriminated against for who you are because Putin said so? You said that human rights were worth as much as the piece of paper they were printed on and no more, but that's not true. Human rights are worth these peoples' lives and livelihoods. These people are people, they are human, just like you and me, and therefore the basic fundamental human rights should apply to them. '

I know you probably will just evade the argument or come up with some counterproductive answer like you have the last few times, but I want you to think about this.

[Free Tristania]

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It's time for a realism check. Which is one of the two is stronger ?

Paper covers knife?

Wrong: the sword is made of steel and it will go right through the paper. That's right.. I hate to have to wake you up, people. But we're living in a world where might makes right. I don't like it either (personally) but that's how it is and how it has always been and will always be.

[Coccygia]

All the crap that goes on in Putin's Russia, and everybody gets bent out of shape over gay rights? Way to go, "progressives". Sort of reminds a bit me how everybody got upset about the Taliban blowing up Buddha statues, while they were holding mass executions every week in the Kabul football stadium.

Talk about edgy! Your post just cut my finger wide open!

That we are addressing Putin's anti-LGBT policies right now does not mean we have never addressed other human rights violations in the Russian Federation.

Nevermind the fact that the purpose of this thread is addressing said anti-LGBT policies. Other human rights violations are irrelevant, and what you perceive to be "selective outrage" on the part of Western progressivism is just as irrelevant.

I kindly ask that you take your bullshit post elsewhere.

Typical "progressive", you can't stand it when anybody disagrees with you.

[Regnum Dominae]

Talk about edgy! Your post just cut my finger wide open!

That we are addressing Putin's anti-LGBT policies right now does not mean we have never addressed other human rights violations in the Russian Federation.

Nevermind the fact that the purpose of this thread is addressing said anti-LGBT policies. Other human rights violations are irrelevant, and what you perceive to be "selective outrage" on the part of Western progressivism is just as irrelevant.

I kindly ask that you take your bullshit post elsewhere.

Typical, you can't stand it when anybody disagrees with you.

All the crap that goes on in Putin's Russia, and everybody gets bent out of shape over gay rights? Way to go, "progressives". Sort of reminds a bit me how everybody got upset about the Taliban blowing up Buddha statues, while they were holding mass executions every week in the Kabul football stadium.

This is a pretty damn big issue...

A few days ago the Russian police informed citizens that they should REPORT OPENLY LGBT NEIGHBORS TO THE POLICE. Russia has regressed back to the soviet system of "snitch-on-your-neighbors-to-the-government-for-meaningless-'crimes' ". No kidding.

Now are you going to respond to our arguments, or will you keep up the childish sniping?

[Free Tristania]

To Free Tristania:

What if you lived in Russia and were LGBT? Would you say that it's OK that you might be reported to the police, denied jobs, arrested, beaten, or worse for something you can't help because it's the law? Would you say it's OK that you're being mindlessly discriminated against for who you are because Putin said so? You said that human rights were worth as much as the piece of paper they were printed on and no more, but that's not true. Human rights are worth these peoples' lives and livelihoods. These people are people, they are human, just like you and me, and therefore the basic fundamental human rights should apply to them. '

I know you probably will just evade the argument or come up with some counterproductive answer like you have the last few times, but I want you to think about this.

The question is perfectly irrelevant and the answer is the same. I am not in the position (thankfully) but if I am in Russia I need to adhere to Russian laws. Tough shit but that's how it is. Deal with it.

[Liriena]

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It's time for a realism check. Which is one of the two is stronger ?

I hate this latest brand of edgy cynicism.

[Blekksprutia]

To Free Tristania:

What if you lived in Russia and were LGBT? Would you say that it's OK that you might be reported to the police, denied jobs, arrested, beaten, or worse for something you can't help because it's the law? Would you say it's OK that you're being mindlessly discriminated against for who you are because Putin said so? You said that human rights were worth as much as the piece of paper they were printed on and no more, but that's not true. Human rights are worth these peoples' lives and livelihoods. These people are people, they are human, just like you and me, and therefore the basic fundamental human rights should apply to them. '

I know you probably will just evade the argument or come up with some counterproductive answer like you have the last few times, but I want you to think about this.

The question is perfectly irrelevant and the answer is the same. I am not in the position (thankfully) but if I am in Russia I need to adhere to Russian laws. Tough shit but that's how it is. Deal with it.

1. You're evading the argument.
2. There's no need to swear.

[Aeken]

So you think that action shouldn't be taken if that happened?

What action could be taken ? Nothing.

Of course there could. Are you saying any entity of any sort could not stop anything because it can't?

[Free Tristania]

(Image)

(Image)

It's time for a realism check. Which is one of the two is stronger ?

I hate this latest brand of edgy cynicism.

You might hate it.. but this is what the world is like. It's time to wake up from your slumber and smell the coffee.

[Liriena]

Talk about edgy! Your post just cut my finger wide open!

That we are addressing Putin's anti-LGBT policies right now does not mean we have never addressed other human rights violations in the Russian Federation.

Nevermind the fact that the purpose of this thread is addressing said anti-LGBT policies. Other human rights violations are irrelevant, and what you perceive to be "selective outrage" on the part of Western progressivism is just as irrelevant.

I kindly ask that you take your bullshit post elsewhere.

Typical "progressive", you can't stand it when anybody disagrees with you.

Excuse me for taking offense at your asinine and fallacious post.

[Free Tristania]

What action could be taken ? Nothing.

Of course there could. Are you saying any entity of any sort could not stop anything because it can't?

You mean like the UN ? Haha .. yes like in Srbrenica where they let some unarmed Dutch peacekeepers hold out against the Serbs without any kind of support ? Please don't make me laugh.

[Regnum Dominae]

I hate this latest brand of edgy cynicism.

You might hate it.. but this is what the world is like. It's time to wake up from your slumber and smell the coffee.

It's our duty as society to do everything it can make this world a better place.

[Free Tristania]

The question is perfectly irrelevant and the answer is the same. I am not in the position (thankfully) but if I am in Russia I need to adhere to Russian laws. Tough shit but that's how it is. Deal with it.

1. You're evading the argument.
2. There's no need to swear.

Try to get it into your head. I am not evading any arguments. I just don't go for all the sappy, emotional "try to put yourself in my position "cry cry""- nonsense.

[Liriena]

I fail to see how.

Read back and learn.

No, you see...your cynicism, while cute, does not change the fact that human rights laws are legally binding. Whether some nations abide by them or not is irrelevant. A law is a law. Whether nations enforce them or not, it's still legitimate. The legitimacy of a law is not determined by the willingness of its subjects to abide by it. A crime is still a crime even if there is no police to capture the culprit, no courts to sentence the culprit, or no prisons in which to imprison the culprit.

[Free Tristania]

You might hate it.. but this is what the world is like. It's time to wake up from your slumber and smell the coffee.

It's our duty as society to do everything it can make this world a better place.

Since when ? It is our duty to make our society a better place. At least THAT is actually possible.

[Coccygia]

Typical, you can't stand it when anybody disagrees with you.

This is a pretty damn big issue...

A few days ago the Russian police informed citizens that they should REPORT OPENLY LGBT NEIGHBORS TO THE POLICE. Russia has regressed back to the soviet system of "snitch-on-your-neighbors-to-the-government-for-meaningless-'crimes' ". No kidding.

Now are you going to respond to our arguments, or will you keep up the childish sniping?

I wasn't aware that "bullshit" was an argument. (Talk about childish.)

[Aeken]

Of course there could. Are you saying any entity of any sort could not stop anything because it can't?

You mean like the UN ? Haha .. yes like in Srbrenica where they let some unarmed Dutch peacekeepers hold out against the Serbs without any kind of support ? Please don't make me laugh.

I wasn't specific. Any entity could not stop Russia, or any nation for that matter from doing anything?

[Free Tristania]

Read back and learn.

No, you see...your cynicism, while cute, does not change the fact that human rights laws are legally binding. Whether some nations abide by them or not is irrelevant. A law is a law. Whether nations enforce them or not, it's still legitimate. The legitimacy of a law is not determined by the willingness of its subjects to abide by it. A crime is still a crime even if there is no police to capture the culprit, no courts to sentence the culprit, or no prisons in which to imprison the culprit.

International laws in a world of power players are worth as much as the paper it has been written on. So either come up with a decent police force or see the crooks walk. And to be quite honest with you: that police force would have to be kept in check as well. You know Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

[Free Tristania]

You mean like the UN ? Haha .. yes like in Srbrenica where they let some unarmed Dutch peacekeepers hold out against the Serbs without any kind of support ? Please don't make me laugh.

I wasn't specific. Any entity could not stop Russia, or any nation for that matter from doing anything?

God. But good luck with that. He has been looking on while mankind has been slaughtering each other for the past 2000plus years so don't expect him to show up.

[Regnum Dominae]

Now are you going to respond to our arguments, or will you keep up the childish sniping?

I wasn't aware that "bullshit" was an argument. (Talk about childish.)

It ain't bullshit.

Russia's actions are legitimately horrifying at this point.

The Russian government's new law condemning so-called gay propaganda has now encouraged people to report their LGBT neighbors to local authorities.

A notice allegedly from the government says any person who suspects that a neighbor or tenant disseminates "homosexual propaganda" should contact the police immediately, Gay Star News and O-Blog-Dee-O-Blog-Da report.

"Increase your vigilance when you talk to your neighbors, when you are checking your mail and in elevators," the notice says, according to a translation. "You can easily become a target of homosexual propaganda. There is one step from being homosexual and to start propaganda of homosexualism and molesting decent people."

[...]

http://www.advocate.com/news/world-news ... ples-homes

And that's not even the worst.

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/articles/48164 ... g-whip.htm

Something's clearly seriously wrong with a country's political environment when national politicians are actually seriously putting forward proposals like that.