Russia - Gay Rights - Sochi Olympics Megathread

[Exi1and]

Yes, I realise I'm inviting all sorts of abuse here, but let me elaborate on my question a litte :

Russia has recently been in the news moslty for their anit-gay-propaganda news. A tiny minority of any population, yet the massive Russian nation feels it needs to protect itself against them by what seem rather excessive and massively restrictive laws.

Now recently, the FSM rally was attacked by the public and police forces. Now, I don't dispute the fact that all they did was in effect RL trolling, obviously. But shouldn't a nation the size and power of Russia feel secure enough in itself to let a few trolls just get on with it? Do they really feel so insecure about themselves that they need to beat them up in the streets?

Where do you think that's coming from, NSG?

It is insecurity, the majority of these alleged democracy or gay rights movement funded by Western government efforts to promote instability in Russia. That is why it is important that the Russian government may close some NGOs and decide which protest marches are allowed to go forward.

[Liriena]

What the hell are you smoking? It's not banned at all.

If I were afraid of allowing people to spew anti-LGBT bullshit, I would have repeatedly called for Valcouria and Nidaria's deletion many months ago. Yet I did not, because I believe debates to be a healthy form of mental exercise.

1. Define me "anti-LGBT" bullshit?

2. If I would say that I dont considered LGBT noto be normal or even deviant, you would not bitch at all?

3. (P.S. It is not that I have anything with this against gay people as individuals person, but only that homosexuality and transgenderism in consider as not to be ok)

1. Expressions opposing the human rights of LGBT people.

2. I would bitch. Bitching, however, is not censorship. Criticism is not a violation of free speech.

3. I take it English is not your first language?

[Virana]

I vote nothing. No one's being sent to camps, or killed or any of that nastiness, so it's not a big dealio.

this, unfortunately, is incorrect.

Unless you can provide a source that clearly states that people are being sent to forced camps or systematically killed for being homosexual in Russia, he is correct.

Although contrary to what he said, it is a fairly big deal. But not something to get worried enough to actually boycott the Olympics—much less any more serious measures.

[Liriena]

It is insecurity, the majority of these alleged democracy or gay rights movement funded by Western government efforts to promote instability in Russia. That is why it is important that the Russian government may close some NGOs and decide which protest marches are allowed to go forward.

Source?

[Scholencia]

our great leader was killed by traitors and red...who deserve a far greater hell then they will get.....Italians have populated Istria since the fall of the roman empire.....

You should first realise, that you were genocidal mosters and because of you cowardice* you never got in Nurnberg. You should also realise that you were not better than the Nazis, but unfortunately you are obsessed with fascist propaganda so it is hard for you to get all that in your brain. You should also feelt ashamed for worshiping Mussolini. Unfortunately I will also not get in the trap of generalising all Italians, many of them joined the Yugoslav partisans and even in Italy they are aware that they did some terrible things in the Eastern Adria.

*You switched sides on 1943 when you saw that you will loose the war instead of fighting to the end.

Italians arrived in Istria from Venice after the fall of the Roman Empire (in the 15th century), it was inhabit by german tribes and before them by Illrians, and even when they arrived they were never a majority in Istria.

[Liriena]

this, unfortunately, is incorrect.

Unless you can provide a source that clearly states that people are being sent to forced camps or systematically killed for being homosexual in Russia, he is correct.

Although contrary to what he said, it is a fairly big deal. But not something to get worried enough to actually boycott the Olympics—much less any more serious measures.

LGBT people in Russia have been tortured and murdered by private citizens lately, and the state so far has yet to act accordingly.

[Solaray]

Unless you can provide a source that clearly states that people are being sent to forced camps or systematically killed for being homosexual in Russia, he is correct.

Although contrary to what he said, it is a fairly big deal. But not something to get worried enough to actually boycott the Olympics—much less any more serious measures.

LGBT people in Russia have been tortured and murdered by private citizens lately, and the state so far has yet to act accordingly.

Shouldn't the UN be getting involved? I mean what purpose do they serve if they can't keep member nations following their universal acts?

[Liriena]

LGBT people in Russia have been tortured and murdered by private citizens lately, and the state so far has yet to act accordingly.

Shouldn't the UN be getting involved? I mean what purpose do they serve if they can't keep member nations following their universal acts?

What do you propose they do?

[The imperial canadian dutchy]

our great leader was killed by traitors and red...who deserve a far greater hell then they will get.....Italians have populated Istria since the fall of the roman empire.....

You should first realise, that you were genocidal mosters and because of you cowardice* you never got in Nurnberg. You should also realise that you were not better than the Nazis, but unfortunately you are obsessed with fascist propaganda so it is hard for you to get all that in your brain. You should also feelt ashamed for worshiping Mussolini. Unfortunately I will also not get in the trap of generalising all Italians, many of them joined the Yugoslav partisans and even in Italy they are aware that they did some terrible things in the Eastern Adria.

*You switched sides on 1943 when you saw that you will loose the war instead of fighting to the end.

Italians arrived in Istria from Venice and after the fall of the Roman Empire it was inhabit by german tribes and before them by Illrians, and even when they arrived they were never a majority in Istria.

HA!
No....It was inhabited by Italians and Late-Latins
you not very good at spelling are you?
Illyrians*
Vittorio Emmanuel Switched sides....and what fascist propaganda I was born in frinken 1997

[Dread Lady Nathicana]

Evening, folks. Guess what this isn't?

A history thread.

This is a current events thread. And while I understand some history may have a hand in what's playing out there today, there appears to be a great deal of unnecessary history talk going on - and way, way too much getting personal with one another.

So, would you kindly, put aside the petty jabs and low shots, and veiled insults, and dry history lessons, and say ... discuss the topic at hand? Unless of course you've tired it out, and we need to put it to bed. Happy to do that too, if necessary. Thanks!

[Scholencia]

1. Expressions opposing the human rights of LGBT people.

2. I would bitch. Bitching, however, is not censorship. Criticism is not a violation of free speech.

3. I take it English is not your first language?

1. Is the statement of "gays are deviant" count as that?
2.But you do understand such statements are cenosored in the mainstream press. You also have to admitt (not be offended) that LGTB are considered as something bad by the most population of the world
3. No, it is not. It is just that it takes to many time to make a post in a good English manner.

[Scholencia]

Evening, folks. Guess what this isn't?

A history thread.

This is a current events thread. And while I understand some history may have a hand in what's playing out there today, there appears to be a great deal of unnecessary history talk going on - and way, way too much getting personal with one another.

So, would you kindly, put aside the petty jabs and low shots, and veiled insults, and dry history lessons, and say ... discuss the topic at hand? Unless of course you've tired it out, and we need to put it to bed. Happy to do that too, if necessary. Thanks!

May I ask, why is here the tolerated fascism worshiping by some poester? They were evil as the Nazis.

[Vicswampia]

I was born in frinken 1997

That explains a lot.

[Scholencia]

HA!
No....It was inhabited by Italians and Late-Latins
you not very good at spelling are you?
Illyrians*

Italians did not exist priror to 1871. And even the Romans where not the modern-day Italians, even Italian scholars dont deny that fact. Illyrians =/= Latins.

and what fascist propaganda I was born in frinken 1997

This is a good reason why Italian kids should visit the concentration camps, to see what their ancestors did

Vittorio Emmanuel Switched sides....

It was Badoglio.

[Liriena]

1. Expressions opposing the human rights of LGBT people.

2. I would bitch. Bitching, however, is not censorship. Criticism is not a violation of free speech.

3. I take it English is not your first language?

1. Is the statement of "gays are deviant" count as that?
2.But you do understand such statements are cenosored in the mainstream press. You also have to admitt (not be offended) that LGTB are considered as something bad by the most population of the world
3. No, it is not. It is just that it takes to many time to make a post in a good English manner.

1. Yes.
2. They are not censored at all. That you do not see anti-LGBT statements in the mainstream press often is not a product of censorship, but a product of capitalism. Right now, the majority of the developed world's public is, to some degree, pro-LGBT. Anti-LGBT statements simply don't sell as much as they used to, so private media sources do not have their pundits express anti-LGBT views, lest they face severe backslash from their viewers, readers and listeners. But anti-LGBT people do still exist in the mainstream press.
3. That's alright. But you should know that this can make it difficult to comprehend your posts and respond accordingly.

[Regnum Dominae]

Evening, folks. Guess what this isn't?

A history thread.

This is a current events thread. And while I understand some history may have a hand in what's playing out there today, there appears to be a great deal of unnecessary history talk going on - and way, way too much getting personal with one another.

So, would you kindly, put aside the petty jabs and low shots, and veiled insults, and dry history lessons, and say ... discuss the topic at hand? Unless of course you've tired it out, and we need to put it to bed. Happy to do that too, if necessary. Thanks!

May I ask, why is here the tolerated fascism worshiping by some poester? They were evil as the Nazis.

NS doesn't censor political opinions.

Not to mention that opposing Russia's actions does NOT make you a fascist, in fact quite the opposite.

[Regnum Dominae]

Yes, I realise I'm inviting all sorts of abuse here, but let me elaborate on my question a litte :

Russia has recently been in the news moslty for their anit-gay-propaganda news. A tiny minority of any population, yet the massive Russian nation feels it needs to protect itself against them by what seem rather excessive and massively restrictive laws.

Now recently, the FSM rally was attacked by the public and police forces. Now, I don't dispute the fact that all they did was in effect RL trolling, obviously. But shouldn't a nation the size and power of Russia feel secure enough in itself to let a few trolls just get on with it? Do they really feel so insecure about themselves that they need to beat them up in the streets?

Where do you think that's coming from, NSG?

It is insecurity, the majority of these alleged democracy or gay rights movement funded by Western government efforts to promote instability in Russia. That is why it is important that the Russian government may close some NGOs and decide which protest marches are allowed to go forward.

Prove it.

[Liriena]

Evening, folks. Guess what this isn't?

A history thread.

This is a current events thread. And while I understand some history may have a hand in what's playing out there today, there appears to be a great deal of unnecessary history talk going on - and way, way too much getting personal with one another.

So, would you kindly, put aside the petty jabs and low shots, and veiled insults, and dry history lessons, and say ... discuss the topic at hand? Unless of course you've tired it out, and we need to put it to bed. Happy to do that too, if necessary. Thanks!

May I ask, why is here the tolerated fascism worshiping by some poester? They were evil as the Nazis.

NS does not ban unpopular opinions.

[Free Tristania]

May I ask, why is here the tolerated fascism worshiping by some poester? They were evil as the Nazis.

NS doesn't censor political opinions.

Not to mention that opposing Russia's actions does NOT make you a fascist, in fact quite the opposite.

To be honest: forcing ideas upon a population without their consent is rather fascist. Russians are not exactly liberal when it comes to homosexuality and if that's their thing it's their thing. Forcing "tolerance" upon them (by the West) with such intolerance for Russia's internal traditions and views or their political system while we here are less free then ever is rather... how should I put it ? Fascist ?

[Caecuser]

NS doesn't censor political opinions.

Not to mention that opposing Russia's actions does NOT make you a fascist, in fact quite the opposite.

To be honest: forcing ideas upon a population without their consent is rather fascist. Russians are not exactly liberal when it comes to homosexuality and if that's their thing it's their thing. Forcing "tolerance" upon them (by the West) with such intolerance for Russia's internal traditions and views or their political system while we here are less free then ever is rather... how should I put it ? Fascist ?

Why should we care about their traditions and views of those traditions and views are homophobic?

[Dread Lady Nathicana]

May I ask, why is here the tolerated fascism worshiping by some poester? They were evil as the Nazis.

We have rules on this site. They do not block any one particular set of beliefs or ideology. They do however, outline an overall acceptable level of behavior that we expect all players, regardless of race, gender, beliefs, political leaning, or any other qualifier you may want to work in there, to follow.

No flaming. No baiting. No trolling. Stay on target. Er, topic. Little things like that, etc. All linked in my signature, if you need a quick reference. What you're doing there? Stating your debate partners are 'worshipping others as evil as the Nazis' could be seen as trolling/baiting. So knock it off. No name-calling, no 'I think you suck because', comments. Ample room for 'I do not agree because $fact/thought/reason' that avoids breaking rules.

Just behave yourselves, play nicely with others, even if you don't agree with them. At the end of the day, you don't have to.

[Scholencia]

1. Yes.
2. They are not censored at all. That you do not see anti-LGBT statements in the mainstream press often is not a product of censorship, but a product of capitalism. Right now, the majority of the developed world's public is, to some degree, pro-LGBT. Anti-LGBT statements simply don't sell as much as they used to, so private media sources do not have their pundits express anti-LGBT views, lest they face severe backslash from their viewers, readers and listeners. But anti-LGBT people do still exist in the mainstream press.
3. That's alright. But you should know that this can make it difficult to comprehend your posts and respond accordingly.

Well, let us imagine you were living in some countries where there is almost not gays, and it was relativly unknown to the most population until recently. What would you think about the gays, positive or negative?

[Free Tristania]

To be honest: forcing ideas upon a population without their consent is rather fascist. Russians are not exactly liberal when it comes to homosexuality and if that's their thing it's their thing. Forcing "tolerance" upon them (by the West) with such intolerance for Russia's internal traditions and views or their political system while we here are less free then ever is rather... how should I put it ? Fascist ?

Why should we care about their traditions and views of those traditions and views are homophobic?

Hmm how did Churchill put it ?

Ah yes. Today's antifascists will be tomorrow's fascists. Quite right, Winston, quite right. Should I put it even more bluntly ? Very well I will: you lot have become the very evil you fought against. Intolerant and violent.

[Liriena]

NS doesn't censor political opinions.

Not to mention that opposing Russia's actions does NOT make you a fascist, in fact quite the opposite.

To be honest: forcing ideas upon a population without their consent is rather fascist. Russians are not exactly liberal when it comes to homosexuality and if that's their thing it's their thing. Forcing "tolerance" upon them (by the West) with such intolerance for Russia's internal traditions and views or their political system while we here are less free then ever is rather... how should I put it ? Fascist ?

No one is forcing the Russians to accept or tolerate homosexuality. We only want the human rights of LGBT people to not be violated by the Russian state.

Human rights are not a popularity contest. They are not suddenly suspended when the majority of a country just doesn't like a minority.

[Scholencia]

NS doesn't censor political opinions.

Not to mention that opposing Russia's actions does NOT make you a fascist, in fact quite the opposite.

So, you can also deny holocaust if you like it?