Russia - Gay Rights - Sochi Olympics Megathread

[Free Tristania]

Even if we don't agree with internal politics (I don't) - it's internal and thus none of our business. We should try to force our values (however good or bad) upon others (for that is imperialism) and rely on the same mechanism that brought us to where we are today: progress. The Russians will get there.. eventually.

[Caecuser]

Even if we don't agree with internal politics (I don't) - it's internal and thus none of our business. We should try to force our values (however good or bad) upon others (for that is imperialism) and rely on the same mechanism that brought us to where we are today: progress. The Russians will get there.. eventually.

Are you forgetting about Human Rights?

[Agritum]

I remember how they were showing videos of people pouring out what they called Russian Vodka on the street to show their support of gays in Russia. If you looked closely, you could see that when they open the bottles, the seals are already broken. Vodka indeed. More like "Watka."

I heard that Russians usually consume a bottle a week. Maybe they had already drunk from it?

Rosa Parks broke a law. And yet she is seen as an icon of the Civil Rights Movement.

Guess why?

Female.

*nods*

[Liriena]

Even if we don't agree with internal politics (I don't) - it's internal and thus none of our business. We should try to force our values (however good or bad) upon others (for that is imperialism) and rely on the same mechanism that brought us to where we are today: progress. The Russians will get there.. eventually.

One big problem with your argument: the Russian Federation is bound by international human rights legislation.

[Potenco]

At this point, I think its pretty safe to call Putin both a Fascist and a Neo-Czarist.

[Spoder]

I remember how they were showing videos of people pouring out what they called Russian Vodka on the street to show their support of gays in Russia. If you looked closely, you could see that when they open the bottles, the seals are already broken. Vodka indeed. More like "Watka."

I heard that Russians usually consume a bottle a week. Maybe they had already drunk from

It was in America.

[The imperial canadian dutchy]

At this point, I think its pretty safe to call Putin both a Fascist and a Neo-Czarist.

So basically your calling him awesome?

[Llamalandia]

Even if we don't agree with internal politics (I don't) - it's internal and thus none of our business. We should try to force our values (however good or bad) upon others (for that is imperialism) and rely on the same mechanism that brought us to where we are today: progress. The Russians will get there.. eventually.

also the olympics is kinda considered an exception to this rule. I mean had they told the olympic committee before hand that they intended to enforce these laws on foreigners I seriously doubt they would have gotten the games.

Also yeah, the holocaust was (well there is debate) internally legal in Germany should we have let them hold another olympic games in Germany during the holocaust as well ?

[Liriena]

At this point, I think its pretty safe to call Putin both a Fascist and a Neo-Czarist.

Even the Czars were not as intolerant as Putin and his voters.

[Virana]

At this point, I think its pretty safe to call Putin both a Fascist and a Neo-Czarist.

For being homophobic? That escalated quickly.

[Llamalandia]

Even if we don't agree with internal politics (I don't) - it's internal and thus none of our business. We should try to force our values (however good or bad) upon others (for that is imperialism) and rely on the same mechanism that brought us to where we are today: progress. The Russians will get there.. eventually.

One big problem with your argument: the Russian Federation is bound by international human rights legislation.

No one is really "bound" by international law as it's kinda joke, but yeah I see what youre trying to say here none the less.

[Free Tristania]

Even if we don't agree with internal politics (I don't) - it's internal and thus none of our business. We should try to force our values (however good or bad) upon others (for that is imperialism) and rely on the same mechanism that brought us to where we are today: progress. The Russians will get there.. eventually.

also the olympics is kinda considered an exception to this rule. I mean had they told the olympic committee before hand that they intended to enforce these laws on foreigners I seriously doubt they would have gotten the games.

Also yeah, the holocaust was (well there is debate) internally legal in Germany should we have let them hold another olympic games in Germany during the holocaust as well ?

It's a non-issue as the Olympics were not held or planned in Germany during WWII and the Holocaust were by no means internal (Germany had occupied the rest of Europe) and there is no Holocaust on homosexuals in Russia. The law is much like the British Section 28.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Section_28

Which, I might add, did not cause a storm of criticism in the press either, did it ? No it didn't.

[Agritum]

It was in America.

Oh well.

[Scholencia]

How come that there is no thread about Guantanamo bay and how come that there is no NGOs in the US making protests against it?

Yet, Putin is the dictator and Obama is a an angel.

Stop threadjacking, buddy. None of us are stupid enough to fall for your irrelevancies.
If you want to talk about the human rights violations committed by the United States, get your own fucking thread. Otherwise, post something relevant to this topic or shut the fuck up.

Sinlencing somebody is not quite democratic.

Where is the freedom of speech goneto which you claim to be devoted gone?

[Sommorragh]

So, what do we do? Force economic sanctions upon a country that holds vast amounts of high-demand mineral wealth (such as oil) and American debt? Not to mention their close ties with China. It's risky to say the least.

War? You want to invade Russia? From where? How? When? What will be the Russian retaliation and the countries that side with Russia? Can NATO troops mount a successful offensive?

Protest? Yeah, let's provoke the regime even further. we have no idea what the regime's reaction will be. Hell, they might even find out about the protests in advance, and then you're really fucked. Are you going to risk the lives of millions of people? It could explode into an international incident, further straining already tenuous relations with Russia and possibly China.


Once more; unless the those opposed to Russia's new laws are in an significantly advantageous position, acting carries numerous far reaching risks that carry rammifications that can shape the world over politically.

How can you not get this?! Before acting in any manner, the international community must first weigh the risks and liabilities, before taking action in any way. Based off the argument above, it would appear that the the international community faces risks too great to take action. Now, if you can present information that outweighs those risks, then we can think about taking any sort of action. People are rushing to action before looking at the situation.

What the hell is the international community going to do and how is it going to do it while minimizing it's liabilities?

[Liriena]

One big problem with your argument: the Russian Federation is bound by international human rights legislation.

No one is really "bound" by international law as it's kinda joke, but yeah I see what youre trying to say here none the less.

Thought enforcing international law might be difficult, it's still law. Breaking it is a grave offense, and it can have tangible consequences on a nation's future.

[Free Tristania]

So, what do we do? Force economic sanctions upon a country that holds vast amounts of high-demand mineral wealth (such as oil) and American debt? Not to mention their close ties with China. It's risky to say the least.

War? You want to invade Russia? From where? How? When? What will be the Russian retaliation and the countries that side with Russia? Can NATO troops mount a successful offensive?

Protest? Yeah, let's provoke the regime even further. we have no idea what the regime's reaction will be. Hell, they might even find out about the protests in advance, and then you're really fucked. Are you going to risk the lives of millions of people? It could explode into an international incident, further straining already tenuous relations with Russia and possibly China.


Once more; unless the those opposed to Russia's new laws are in an significantly advantageous position, acting carries numerous far reaching risks that carry rammifications that can shape the world over politically.

How can you not get this?! Before acting in any manner, the international community must first weigh the risks and liabilities, before taking action in any way. Based off the argument above, it would appear that the the international community faces risks too great to take action. Now, if you can present information that outweighs those risks, then we can think about taking any sort of action. People are rushing to action before looking at the situation.

What the hell is the international community going to do and how is it going to do it while minimizing it's liabilities?

Here is a bright idea: don't bother.

[The Orson Empire]

Well, it's too late to move the Olympics. If it is really that bad of an issue, either cancel it or reschedule it elsewhere.

[Potenco]

At this point, I think its pretty safe to call Putin both a Fascist and a Neo-Czarist.

For being homophobic? That escalated quickly.

What makes hating one minority different from another? If Putin banned "Jewish Propaganda" than we would all be calling him a Fascist.

[Free Tristania]

No one is really "bound" by international law as it's kinda joke, but yeah I see what youre trying to say here none the less.

Thought enforcing international law might be difficult, it's still law. Breaking it is a grave offense, and it can have tangible consequences on a nation's future.

If so then America would no longer be existing today. The same applies to Israel that has broken god-knows-how-many international laws and UN resolutions. They are still around. Alive and kicking.

[The imperial canadian dutchy]

For being homophobic? That escalated quickly.

What makes hating one minority different from another. If Putin banned "Jewish Propaganda" than we would all be calling him a Fascist.

That's quite offensive...fascist don't hate jews.....National socialists hate jews....

[The Norgan Alliance]

Well, it's too late to move the Olympics. If it is really that bad of an issue, either cancel it or reschedule it elsewhere.

I doubt either of those things are going to happen, an Olympic games has never been canceled (to my knowledge) and it's much to late to move it as it takes at least a year, if not more, to get everything set up and working.

[Free Tristania]

What makes hating one minority different from another. If Putin banned "Jewish Propaganda" than we would all be calling him a Fascist.

That's quite offensive...fascist don't hate jews.....National socialists hate jews....

That's correct. Jews were quite safe in Italy (until the Germans marched in), Spain and Portugal.

[Liriena]

Stop threadjacking, buddy. None of us are stupid enough to fall for your irrelevancies.
If you want to talk about the human rights violations committed by the United States, get your own fucking thread. Otherwise, post something relevant to this topic or shut the fuck up.

Sinlencing somebody is not quite democratic.

Where is the freedom of speech goneto which you claim to be devoted gone?

Threadjacking is against the rules in NSG.

Your entire argument so far has been a threadjack, and quite a shamelessly blatant one at that.

What human rights violations the United States' government might have committed does not validate what the Russian Federation has done. That someone else kicks a dog doesn't mean it's right for you to kick a cat. It's a shitty and irrelevant argument, and you should feel ashamed.

[Agritum]

Stop threadjacking, buddy. None of us are stupid enough to fall for your irrelevancies.
If you want to talk about the human rights violations committed by the United States, get your own fucking thread. Otherwise, post something relevant to this topic or shut the fuck up.

Sinlencing somebody is not quite democratic.

Where is the freedom of speech goneto which you claim to be devoted gone?

Says the one who said that everyone should shut the fuck up because the Soviet Union helped the allies.