Russia - Gay Rights - Sochi Olympics Megathread

[Geilinor]

including the horrible mistreatment of minorities in the North Caucasus

The treatment of minorities in the North Caucasus actually improved under Putin...

I don't like Putin, but I suppose that's true. Both Chechen wars occurred under Yeltsin.

[Shofercia]

including the horrible mistreatment of minorities in the North Caucasus

The treatment of minorities in the North Caucasus actually improved under Putin...

I don't like Putin, but I suppose that's true. Both Chechen wars occurred under Yeltsin.

Nope. Second Chechen War occurred under Putin. However, Chechens suffered more at the hands of Wahhabi Terrorists, i.e. the "that woman no wear Burka, rape her" crowd, than either Yeltsin or Putin. Vladimir isn't some great Human Rights fellow for the Chechens, but under him, Chechens have more rights, (however few those rights might actually be,) than under any other leader since Stalin's atrocious deportation.

[Strolingrad]

It's far too late to move the Olympics.

While what Russia is doing is terrible in many ways, we still had Olympic's in China in '08, in Nazi Germany in '36, ect. Basically if we took politics into account for countries to hold the Olympic's, a lot of countries wouldn't be considered appropriate.

[Soviet Russia Republic]

including the horrible mistreatment of minorities in the North Caucasus

The treatment of minorities in the North Caucasus actually improved under Putin...

Yep, along with billions invested into the region to improve the economy and living standards over the years under Puttin. Which pisses off nationalists outside the region, ignoring the fact it is best for everyone both in and outside it.

[Byzantium Imperial]

If Hitler could host the olympics, then why not Putin?

[Shofercia]

including the horrible mistreatment of minorities in the North Caucasus

The treatment of minorities in the North Caucasus actually improved under Putin...

Yep, along with billions invested into the region to improve the economy and living standards over the years under Puttin. Which pisses off nationalists outside the region, ignoring the fact it is best for everyone both in and outside it.

It's funny how often Putin gets accused of "killing democracy in Russia", by the very same people who supported Yeltsin, after he shot at Parliament with tanks.

[Noireaux]

Operation Cyclone was the code name for the United States Central Intelligence Agency program to arm and finance the Afghan mujahideen prior to and during the Soviet war in Afghanistan, 1979 to 1989.

In 1980, the United States led a boycott of the Summer Olympic Games in Moscow to protest the late 1979 Soviet invasion of Afghanistan.

In October 2001, the United States of America and Great Britain invaded the country of Afghanistan.

THIS IS INDEED TURNING INTO A COMEDY OF AWESOME PROPORTIONS

[Risottia]

Should the winter Olympic games be moved from Russia due to Russia's discriminatory treatment of homosexuals?

No.

Countries can refuse to send their delegations. As for moving them, no way.

[Risottia]

Yep, along with billions invested into the region to improve the economy and living standards over the years under Puttin. Which pisses off nationalists outside the region, ignoring the fact it is best for everyone both in and outside it.

It's funny how often Putin gets accused of "killing democracy in Russia", by the very same people who supported Yeltsin, after he shot at Parliament with tanks.

Hey, I DO accuse Putin of being authoritarian, but I also would have gladly gutted Yeltsin with a broken bottle of Armenian konjak.
Come to think of it, he might have liked it anyway. Getting a bottle anyway was the real point for Boris Alkolovich Opjanenin...

[Byzantium Imperial]

Yep, along with billions invested into the region to improve the economy and living standards over the years under Puttin. Which pisses off nationalists outside the region, ignoring the fact it is best for everyone both in and outside it.

It's funny how often Putin gets accused of "killing democracy in Russia", by the very same people who supported Yeltsin, after he shot at Parliament with tanks.

That was a fun day. But good ridance to Yeltsin. At least Putin can run an economy

[Cosmopoles]

Operation Cyclone was the code name for the United States Central Intelligence Agency program to arm and finance the Afghan mujahideen prior to and during the Soviet war in Afghanistan, 1979 to 1989.

In 1980, the United States led a boycott of the Summer Olympic Games in Moscow to protest the late 1979 Soviet invasion of Afghanistan.

In October 2001, the United States of America and Great Britain invaded the country of Afghanistan.

THIS IS INDEED TURNING INTO A COMEDY OF AWESOME PROPORTIONS

The difference being that the US and Britain (and many other countries) invaded after a direct attack on US military and civilian targets by an Afghanistan based group and that the 2001 invasion was supported by Russia.

[Noireaux]

I think it would just be wiser to auto-ban the US from all Olympics taking place in Russia. As history shows, they don't want to participate anyway.

[Noireaux]

The difference being that the US and Britain (and many other countries) invaded after a direct attack on US military and civilian targets by an Afghanistan based group and that the 2001 invasion was supported by Russia.

Yeah, because financing terrorism against the USSR didn't lead to the attacks on the US by same terrorists. Makes total sense, yah.

[Risottia]

I think it would just be wiser to auto-ban the US from all Olympics taking place in Russia. As history shows, they don't want to participate anyway.

They're afraid of the Russian boxing champions.

[Noireaux]

I think it would just be wiser to auto-ban the US from all Olympics taking place in Russia. As history shows, they don't want to participate anyway.

They're afraid of the Russian boxing champions.

[Cosmopoles]

The difference being that the US and Britain (and many other countries) invaded after a direct attack on US military and civilian targets by an Afghanistan based group and that the 2001 invasion was supported by Russia.

Yeah, because financing terrorism against the USSR didn't lead to the attacks on the US by same terrorists. Makes total sense, yah.

Well, no. It didn't. The US funded the local mujahideen who in later years would split into various groups including the Taliban and the Northern Alliance, whereas the US was attacked by Al-Qaeda which is a largely Arab organisation some of the members of which were backed by Saudi Arabia in the Soviet-Afghan war.

[Noireaux]

Yeah, because financing terrorism against the USSR didn't lead to the attacks on the US by same terrorists. Makes total sense, yah.

Well, no. It didn't. The US funded the local mujahideen who in later years would split into various groups including the Taliban and the Northern Alliance, whereas the US was attacked by Al-Qaeda which is a largely Arab organisation some of the members of which were backed by Saudi Arabia in the Soviet-Afghan war.

[Shofercia]

It's funny how often Putin gets accused of "killing democracy in Russia", by the very same people who supported Yeltsin, after he shot at Parliament with tanks.

Hey, I DO accuse Putin of being authoritarian, but I also would have gladly gutted Yeltsin with a broken bottle of Armenian konjak.
Come to think of it, he might have liked it anyway. Getting a bottle anyway was the real point for Boris Alkolovich Opjanenin...

That's why I don't mind your criticism of Russia

I just find it ridiculous when the Yeltsin supporters start running their mouths about Human Rights. If you know quite a bit about Russia, criticize away. If you don't, please don't make it worse. In your case, it's obvious that your criticism is welcome

It's funny how often Putin gets accused of "killing democracy in Russia", by the very same people who supported Yeltsin, after he shot at Parliament with tanks.

That was a fun day. But good ridance to Yeltsin. At least Putin can run an economy

[Soviet Russia Republic]

Yep, along with billions invested into the region to improve the economy and living standards over the years under Puttin. Which pisses off nationalists outside the region, ignoring the fact it is best for everyone both in and outside it.

It's funny how often Putin gets accused of "killing democracy in Russia", by the very same people who supported Yeltsin, after he shot at Parliament with tanks.

Not surprising though, much of the human population is easily swayed. You had different politicians/media hail Yeltsin being great for Russia from many countries, regardless of the fact he wasn't good in almost any way, at the same time having terrible official rates of approval. Kind of like the South Ossetia 08 war. If you tuned on CNN, Fox news, BBC, etc, you pretty much only saw titles like "Russia invades Georgia", Russia attacks Georgia", not "Georgia attacks and kills Russian peacekeepers or "Georgia invades South Ossetia". While politicians, mostly American, more or less just spewed the mindless lines Mikheil Saakashvili came up with. Heck even Obama at first took a more rational position but changed it when he saw it wasn't winning him supporters to do so. However as time went on and people actuality looked at the facts, people started to become more sensible besides idiots like John McCain. Even reports done by the EU would admit to Georgia starting the war. Putin of course is a favorite target of many media outlets so you often seem the same idiotic claims about him. Now obviously that doesn't mean there aren't points to criticize him on, such as not shooting down the gay propaganda to minors bill, but more often than not you see more ignorance than facts in spewed. Hell people claim he's part of groups that outright hate him and at the same time seen as a threat by Putin, he's a filthy god hating commie , etc.

[Noireaux]

I think it would be an act of righteousnesses on behalf of the world to ban the U.S. from participating in all further Olympics for all eternity, because the amount of wars the U.S. declared and the amount of governments it toppled in its most recent history can't even be topped by Nazi Germany.

This alone should have deserved an at least 30 year ban in fact.

Or this, with the US being the only country in history to have used WMDs against a non-WMD country.

And when Americans whine and justify themselves "Well, it's our government that's at fault, we can't do anything about it.", and then I have a conversation with an American, as I did today, which goes along the lines of:

A: Today's the anniversary of the 2008 war.
B: You mean the Iraqi one?
A: Did the Iraq war start in 2008?
B: I don't know.
A: You don't even know about the wars YOUR country is/was involved in in the past 20 years?
B: Why should I?

This in fact proves that not only should the U.S. government be classified as profoundly criminal, but the American people, who display criminal ignorance even in regard to their government's foreign victims, deserve to be treated as the lowest scum on this planet.

But noooo, let's hate and boycott Russia because it's soooo heterosexual.

I say http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HaNf_Lv6QmI

[Rawrckia]

Should the winter Olympic games be moved from Russia due to Russia's discriminatory treatment of homosexuals?

No.

Countries can refuse to send their delegations. As for moving them, no way.

This.

Russia has been setting up their stuff for the Games for quite a while. If the games were to be moved, they'd likely ask for a "refund" from the Olympic Committee for all the money they've already poured into it.

If you don't like Russia's social policies (supported by its people) you can voluntarily boycott the Games. I'm sure the only countries who care enough to boycott it are the US and some Western European countries

[Fartsniffage]

No.

Countries can refuse to send their delegations. As for moving them, no way.

This.

Russia has been setting up their stuff for the Games for quite a while. If the games were to be moved, they'd likely ask for a "refund" from the Olympic Committee for all the money they've already poured into it.

If you don't like Russia's social policies (supported by its people) you can voluntarily boycott the Games. I'm sure the only countries who care enough to boycott it are the US and some Western European countries

Don't you find that idea sad?

[Byzantium Imperial]

No.

Countries can refuse to send their delegations. As for moving them, no way.

This.

Russia has been setting up their stuff for the Games for quite a while. If the games were to be moved, they'd likely ask for a "refund" from the Olympic Committee for all the money they've already poured into it.

If you don't like Russia's social policies (supported by its people) you can voluntarily boycott the Games. I'm sure the only countries who care enough to boycott it are the US and some Western European countries

I doubt the US will do it. I mean, our hockey team stands a chance now and our boxers are slowly getting better.

[Shofercia]

This.

Russia has been setting up their stuff for the Games for quite a while. If the games were to be moved, they'd likely ask for a "refund" from the Olympic Committee for all the money they've already poured into it.

If you don't like Russia's social policies (supported by its people) you can voluntarily boycott the Games. I'm sure the only countries who care enough to boycott it are the US and some Western European countries

Don't you find that idea sad?

Nope. Why have collateral damage of innocent parties, (athletes,) when you can achieve more with a protest?

[Grenartia]

If you agree that we should be taking cues from MLK Jr., then you should also oppose a "silent protest", because a silent protest (unless you have highly visible symbols to compensate for a lack of verbal protests) is indistinguishable from silent approval.

Then it's a good thing that I was suggesting rainbow clothing.

(Edit: well, technically RD suggested it, I just thought that it was a good idea )

I admittedly missed that bit.

It is a good idea. Maybe if they put the clothes on before the medal ceremony, so that they don't get disqualified from competition for wearing the clothes.

A strong message must be sent. A vocal, widespread protest on the part of the international guests would be preferential, but that's a bit of wishful thinking. Moving the Olympics or mass-boycotting them would be very suboptimal, but at least something must be done to hammer a message through. I fully realize that doing something to sabotage the Olympics themselves (boycotting or moving) could and would cause a violent reaction against the LGBT folks in Russia ("the pederasts have stolen our Olympics!!!!") but at the same time not using the Olympics to deliver a concrete message against Russia's rising reactionary clerical fascism would be just vile and cowardly on the civilized world's part.

Also as a Russian LGBT citizen I feel a strong disappointment with the whole Olympics controversy which seems to focus far more on Snowden than on such issues as the Russian Government carrying out brutal attacks on LGBT rights and bidding silent approval of social violence and prejudice against LGBT folks, or condemning thousands of handicapped Russian orphans to torturous death in horrible prison-orphanages by making it illegal for people from Europe and the US to adopt them, or cracking down on free speech, or indulging in monstrous, almost comically medieval clericalism. That really makes me somewhat sick and disappointed.

Why don't you guys unite with the sports fans, instead of idiots like Stephen Fry? There's no doubt in my mind that this is a stupid move by Putin, that harms the chances of Russia getting the Summer Olympics in Leningrad, (aka St. Petersburg,) and this has sports fans, such as your truly, peeved. In a choice of whether to oppress the gay, or hold the Summer Olympics in Leningrad, which one do you think most Russians would choose?

Let's not kid ourselves, boycotting the Olympics is going to come and bite you guys in the ass, something that Stephen Fry & Co. fail to realize, I'm guessing his role in Blackadder rubbed off on him. I'd say that you guys should wear, and encourage those who visit the Olympics to wear Rainbow Clothing. That's something that I can fully support.

In terms of orphans, I must disagree. First, Russian orphanages aren't comparable to Russian prisons. Second, the ban on US Adoptions is in part because there's no way to ensure the safety of the kid; if US was to sign a corresponding treaty, adoptions can resume, but US Adoption Ban had nothing to do with Gay Rights. Although I will agree with you on the latter part, Gays should have the right to adopt, and not letting them is idiotic, and somewhat barbaric.

IIRC, the ban on US adoptions was because a woman from TN adopted a Russian kid, and then shipped him back to Russia because she claimed he was trying to kill her, light shit on fire, etc.