Russia - Gay Rights - Sochi Olympics Megathread

[Oneracon]

Are you familiar with a concept called mens rea?

Yes, I understand it's a construct of English and American law, but it's a good construct that the Russians should consider using in some parts of their legal system.

Never heard of it. Nor do I see a reason why should the Russian legal system be based on anglo-saxon law.

Mens rea seems to be a very relative concept since you cannot never know the true motives behing some crimes.

The boy was spreading gay propaganda and therefore he had to go to jail since it is illegal.

No, what happened was these were foreign citizens who were in Russia filming for a documentary on gay life in Russia under Putin's rule. They were hosting a private seminar at an LGBT organization, Center Maximum, (there were no minors present) when the police came in and arrested them and members of the group.

[Shnercropolis]

You don't have to hate something to oppose it. You don't have enough support for your conclusion.

In fact opposing LGBT people and their struggle for equality is quite enough to conclude that one hates them.

I oppose Bill Gate's business. But I don't hate him, he's donating more money to charity than you ever will.

[Regnum Dominae]

In b4 Shof comes and tells us that there is no discrimination against gays in Russia.

[Rousseauvian]

They shouldn't. But, it's Russia, ergo, not the concern of Western folks.

I think "Western folks" are entitled to some cosmopolitan empathy with the people of Russia.

[Hathradic States]

They shouldn't. But, it's Russia, ergo, not the concern of Western folks.

You hidin' some commie plot?

Of course.

[Frisivisia]

In fact opposing LGBT people and their struggle for equality is quite enough to conclude that one hates them.

I oppose Bill Gate's business. But I don't hate him, he's donating more money to charity than you ever will.

He's also fucking education to death, but who's counting?

[North America Inc]

Yes, Putin and his Ultra-Nationalists Supporters don't like anyone who don't fit with there Perfect Russia.

[Shnercropolis]

I oppose Bill Gate's business. But I don't hate him, he's donating more money to charity than you ever will.

He's also fucking education to death, but who's counting?

You, of course.

[Latinorium]

They obviously were not abiding the law.

And apparently they did not bribe any officials either, which is how things normally go in the hopelessly corrupt Russian Federation.

Maybe they should have thought of bribing and then they wouldn't be in this mess.

[Hathradic States]

They shouldn't. But, it's Russia, ergo, not the concern of Western folks.

I think "Western folks" are entitled to some cosmopolitan empathy with the people of Russia.

Why care? They're Russians. I am aware that both left and right think it is the job of the west to be the world's police, but Russia is one place we shouldn't get bothered over for sure.

[Oneracon]

Same thing with slavery and Jim Crow, just don't be black and go to the American South.

Difference being: we took blacks as slaves, and forced them here. No one is making gays go to Russia. They know pro-gay stuff is illegal there, they know what they are risking.

What about all the gay people who live in Russia or are born in Russia and have no hope of affording to leave? They should be sentenced to a life under a despot who would be perfectly fine if the populist opinion was to open gay death camps?

[Las Palmeras]

Paradoxically, Putin's manly GAR factor makes more homo-eroticism.

[Hurdegaryp]

You don't have to hate something to oppose it. You don't have enough support for your conclusion.

In fact opposing LGBT people and their struggle for equality is quite enough to conclude that one hates them.

It would be the same as actively opposing equal rights for women while actually proclaiming you're not a misogynist. That happened more than once in NSG, now that I come to think of it.

[Shnercropolis]

Paradoxically, Putin's manly GAR factor makes more homo-eroticism.

Maybe he's trying to hide a dark past.

[Strifopolis]

Never heard of it. Nor do I see a reason why should the Russian legal system be based on anglo-saxon law.

Mens rea seems to be a very relative concept since you cannot never know the true motives behing some crimes.

The boy was spreading gay propaganda and therefore he had to go to jail since it is illegal.

No, what happened was these were foreign citizens who were in Russia filming for a documentary on gay life in Russia under Putin's rule. They were hosting a private seminar at an LGBT organization, Center Maximum, (there were no minors present) when the police came in and arrested them and members of the group.

The report said that one of the people in the footage being recorded was 17 thus under Russian law making him a minor therefore making it illegal.

[Hathradic States]

Difference being: we took blacks as slaves, and forced them here. No one is making gays go to Russia. They know pro-gay stuff is illegal there, they know what they are risking.

What about all the gay people who live in Russia or are born in Russia and have no hope of affording to leave? They should be sentenced to a life under a despot who would be perfectly fine if the populist opinion was to open gay death camps?

Despot? Hardly.

And do you know how many of them care about what happens to their gays? If the Russians want to be assholes, let them. It's not our problem.

[Nationalist State of Knox]

Paradoxically, Putin's manly GAR factor makes more homo-eroticism.

I think we're all gar for Putin.

[Las Palmeras]

Paradoxically, Putin's manly GAR factor makes more homo-eroticism.

Maybe he's trying to hide a dark past.

This could make a plot for a gay sexploitation film with the KGB.

Paradoxically, Putin's manly GAR factor makes more homo-eroticism.

I think we're all gar for Putin.

Oh God...to a greater or lesser extent

[Ifreann]

In fact opposing LGBT people and their struggle for equality is quite enough to conclude that one hates them.

I oppose Bill Gate's business. But I don't hate him, he's donating more money to charity than you ever will.

A business =/= a group of people and their struggle for equality. A more accurate comparison would be saying you don't think women should be allowed to vote and oppose any attempts to enfranchise them, but you don't dislike or hate them. Or you think blacks aren't fully human and you oppose any attempt to have their humanity recognised, but you don't dislike or hate them.

Granted, I see why you wouldn't want to use an accurate comparison, since that would only support my point.

[Frisivisia]

He's also fucking education to death, but who's counting?

You, of course.

Oh yeah, because I actually care for the welfare of people.

[Oneracon]

No, what happened was these were foreign citizens who were in Russia filming for a documentary on gay life in Russia under Putin's rule. They were hosting a private seminar at an LGBT organization, Center Maximum, (there were no minors present) when the police came in and arrested them and members of the group.

The report said that one of the people in the footage being recorded was 17 thus under Russian law making him a minor therefore making it illegal.

Yeah, and it's not their fault that the kid told them he was 18.

[Rousseauvian]

Why care? They're Russians. I am aware that both left and right think it is the job of the west to be the world's police, but Russia is one place we shouldn't get bothered over for sure.

Well I wouldn't place emphasis on the "west" per se. One can empathise with oppressed peoples without being western.

And we should be getting bothered over oppression wherever it takes place, irregardless of the territory in which it is contained.

[Caninope]

Are you familiar with a concept called mens rea?

Yes, I understand it's a construct of English and American law, but it's a good construct that the Russians should consider using in some parts of their legal system.

Never heard of it. Nor do I see a reason why should the Russian legal system be based on anglo-saxon law.

Mens rea seems to be a very relative concept since you cannot never know the true motives behing some crimes.

The boy was spreading gay propaganda and therefore he had to go to jail since it is illegal.

I'm not saying that Russian law should be based on Anglo-Saxon law, I'm just suggesting that mens rea be incorporated. Furthermore, while it is indeed impossible to know what someone is thinking when they commit a crime, evidence that provide evidence that suggests intention, or (failing that) there are other levels of mens rea, including negligence and recklessness.

Furthermore, what exactly is gay "propaganda"? I'm rather interested, even as a conservative. Does gay propaganda make me gay?

[Oneracon]

What about all the gay people who live in Russia or are born in Russia and have no hope of affording to leave? They should be sentenced to a life under a despot who would be perfectly fine if the populist opinion was to open gay death camps?

Despot? Hardly.

Despot: a form of government in which a single entity rules with absolute power.

Sounds like Putin's Russia to me... oh wait, it must be a super democracy since 146% of the population voted in the last election!

[Regnum Dominae]

self-delete, in my anger at what I was reading I let my temper take hold of me