by The Laxus Union » Fri Aug 23, 2013 6:27 pm
by The Electoral College » Fri Aug 23, 2013 6:41 pm
by The Laxus Union » Fri Aug 23, 2013 6:47 pm
The Electoral College wrote:One major problem occurring to any of these well-intentioned analyses is the shifting and often ideological definition of 'elitism'.
For example, I might give the generalization that America in some circles may not be considered elitist because there really has never been a system of nobility or aristocracy, but a fairly openly stratified 'social ladder'. At the same time, others may view the stark income inequality between the top 1% and the 'average' American as inherently elitist. The solutions each group finds will be structured differently, one focusing on mitigating social immobility and the other on mitigating social inequality.
Similarly, you seem to hold the virtues of intelligence and merit to light in terms of political structure; others may see a meritocracy as elitist because it adds a qualifier to total political participation, no matter the benefits to rationality and social betterment. Democracy is the only metric that has the significance to such opponents of meritocracy in similar fashion to your value of merit.
This is why I prefer a republic with strong protections for minority rights (i.e. non-electoral common law judicial system, separation of powers between branches, abolition of parliamentary sovereignty, etc.), against overtly majoritarian proportionality or populism in the electoral sphere (i.e. indirect electoral systems, electoral colleges, federalism), as well as mitigated electoral disenfranchisement (i.e. no voter identification or restriction laws, little residency requirements, easy and efficate registration processes [though not automatic upon citizenship].). They help to balance these shifting definitions of what government should mean when the people are the theoretical source of power.
by Minarchist States » Fri Aug 23, 2013 6:54 pm
by Pope Joan » Fri Aug 23, 2013 7:01 pm
by Franklin Delano Bluth » Fri Aug 23, 2013 7:20 pm
The Laxus Union wrote:I was doing research as always, into political systems. I've really studied each one and have listened to philosophers. I realized that there is no true system which eliminates elitism, hunger, poverty, unemployment etc.
by Cameroi » Fri Aug 23, 2013 7:47 pm
by 4years » Fri Aug 23, 2013 9:15 pm
by 4years » Fri Aug 23, 2013 9:15 pm
by 4years » Fri Aug 23, 2013 9:22 pm
by The Laxus Union » Fri Aug 23, 2013 9:23 pm
by Minarchist States » Fri Aug 23, 2013 9:28 pm
by Kaapstad » Fri Aug 23, 2013 10:52 pm
by Threlizdun » Fri Aug 23, 2013 10:58 pm
Of course, a system dependent on elitism and poverty for its basic functions would certainly work to eliminate those things.Kaapstad wrote:Yes, it is called capitalism and the free market. Eliminate government and you will eliminate elitism and poverty within a generation at most.
by Franklin Delano Bluth » Fri Aug 23, 2013 11:02 pm
Threlizdun wrote:Elitism will never entirely be eliminated. Social hierarchies and the broader collective elitism certainly can be, but individual and philosophical elitism will almost certainly persist, albeit to a lesser extent to today. Communism would appear to be the most reasonable system in which to combat these things, though the aforementioned philosophical elitism has been a problem that has plagued the far left throughout its history.
by Hetalian Indie Rio de Janeiro » Fri Aug 23, 2013 11:02 pm
Threlizdun wrote:Elitism will never entirely be eliminated. Social hierarchies and the broader collective elitism certainly can be, but individual and philosophical elitism will almost certainly persist, albeit to a lesser extent to today. Communism would appear to be the most reasonable system in which to combat these things, though the aforementioned philosophical elitism has been a problem that has plagued the far left throughout its history.Of course, a system dependent on elitism and poverty for its basic functions would certainly work to eliminate those things.Kaapstad wrote:Yes, it is called capitalism and the free market. Eliminate government and you will eliminate elitism and poverty within a generation at most.
by Minarchist States » Fri Aug 23, 2013 11:10 pm
Kaapstad wrote:Yes, it is called capitalism and the free market. Eliminate government and you will eliminate elitism and poverty within a generation at most.
by Threlizdun » Fri Aug 23, 2013 11:11 pm
And of course by a group whose ideological basis was grounded far more in the proposals of Russian Populists than it actually was in Marxism.Franklin Delano Bluth wrote:One of the most tragic stories in the annals of left-wing activism has got to be the Russian Populists. Earnestly seeking to cast off that very ivory-tower elitism, they flocked to the fields and the workshops...
...where they were roundly rejected, met with suspicion, and quite often turned in to the police.
It's hardly a new phenomenon. The great split between the Marxists and the Anarchists that occurred within the First International Workingmen's Association is something I would have to say is easily the greatest tragedy that has ever befallen the left.Hetalian Indie Rio de Janeiro wrote:It is not our fault. Look at those truly Dumb Ideologies with capital letters youths are really believing in these days. One can't reasonably not facepalm itself looking at it.
by Threlizdun » Fri Aug 23, 2013 11:12 pm
How could capitalism even theoretically become utopian?Minarchist States wrote:Kaapstad wrote:Yes, it is called capitalism and the free market. Eliminate government and you will eliminate elitism and poverty within a generation at most.
AnMon, I assume? Genuinely curious. I believe capitalism has some ways to go before it becomes utopic, but until then the states power will have to substitute what the businesses cannot maintain.
by Vazdania » Fri Aug 23, 2013 11:14 pm
The Laxus Union wrote:I was doing research as always, into political systems. I've really studied each one and have listened to philosophers. I realized that there is no true system which eliminates elitism, hunger, poverty, unemployment etc. Although I am a capitalist economically and a libertarian minarchist politically, I wanted to look for a superior system which can eliminate these things. I was thinking a meritocracy was superior with an intelligence base. I studied a Chinese model which mixes popular vote with merit based rule and it seems pretty superior. I still feel it may not be able to eliminate elitism. I mean it sound like a great system. Everything is focused on problem solving and managing but then it came down to an economic system. Socialism is a mix of cooperative and state ownership. Communism is stateless and classless and ruled by the people. Capitalism is private ownership oriented which has worked way better and improving living standards. Yet all systems have flaws and capitalism can't eliminate theses flaws. I was also getting into Plato's idea of "philosopher kings" governing who loved true knowledge and gave everyone improved lifestyles due to their intelligence and wisdom loving and focused on real problem solving. It is almost identical to an intelligence bases meritocracy. I would like your guys take on this issue and explain to me if you think a system can be created in which eliminates these flaws. I'd also like to know which economic and political systems you feel are superior that solve more problems and improve societies.
by Solaray » Fri Aug 23, 2013 11:14 pm
4years wrote:A system that eliminates poverty and elitism? S
Sure, it is called communism.
by Minarchist States » Fri Aug 23, 2013 11:16 pm
by Libertarian California » Fri Aug 23, 2013 11:22 pm
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