Christianity and Homosexuality

[The New Everlasting]

The 10 commandments are very clear and any one that does not live by them and the other rules set in the bible is not a good christian. Any Christian who try's to say that homosexuality is not a sin or is not clearly against the laws of god is dead wrong and should not consider them selfs christians. I do not want to offend anyone but the gospel is clear and anyone who rejects any part of it rejects it as a whole.

So people with glasses who dare enter the church should be put to death, as should people wearing polyester-cotton clothing ?

Oh, and please none of that "the old testament became invalid after Jesus" stuff. Jesus himself said that was bullshit.

Scripture source please.

[Camarone]

Epic Fail my friend. When I said the gospal was clear I ment it was clear on the subject of homosexuality. Such a tool. And also their is only one church, the Catholic church. Look it up, its the only church founded by Christ.

[Gift-of-god]

My definition of what is natural for humans would be any behaviour that humans do in all societies across time and space.

So, things like love, murder, getting sick, having babies, bitching about each other, laughter, homosexuality, etc. are all natural.

Does that mean something like, say, surfing the Internet is unnatural because not all humans in all societies do it?

If you wish to look at it in a binary fashion. I do not. Some things are more natural than others. Using the internet is less natural than eating fruit, for example. However, don't start thinking that accessibility to a technology makes the technology more natural.

[The New Everlasting]

Epic Fail my friend. When I said the gospal was clear I ment it was clear on the subject of homosexuality. Such a tool. And also their is only one church, the Catholic church. Look it up, its the only church founded by Christ.

Oh really?


*looks in Phone Book*

[Lemiden]

sure, you can call it natural...except the anatomy does not support it. Remember, the key doesnt fit without the lube, so I do not think you can call it natural. And precious evolution supports my argument, as we have not developed a naturally working way.

[Ascon]

If you wish to look at it in a binary fashion. I do not. Some things are more natural than others. Using the internet is less natural than eating fruit, for example. However, don't start thinking that accessibility to a technology makes the technology more natural.

I ask because that definition strikes me as being at least as arbitrary as the one you suggested the Christian one I presented was... Since anything done by one society can be done by all, should they choose to do so, so the items that fit in the "natural" vs "unnatural" columns would be quite fluid.

[Camarone]

Christ came to make a new covenent with man, so yes the old testiment is no longer the standard on christianity.

[Lemiden]

Epic Fail my friend. When I said the gospal was clear I ment it was clear on the subject of homosexuality. Such a tool. And also their is only one church, the Catholic church. Look it up, its the only church founded by Christ.

Oh really?


*looks in Phone Book*

Heh, hes right, Christ did not found the Catholic church. Technically he did not found any, but the apostles founded them (12 i think). One of which MAY have become the Catholic church. Thus the books of Corinthians, Ephesians, etc.

[Ascon]

Epic Fail my friend. When I said the gospal was clear I ment it was clear on the subject of homosexuality. Such a tool. And also their is only one church, the Catholic church. Look it up, its the only church founded by Christ.

Well, in fairness, there are at least three denominations that make that claim.

[Lemiden]

Christ came to make a new covenent with man, so yes the old testiment is no longer the standard on christianity.

Christ did not change what was sin, he made a way for mankind to overcome sin. But we are still to strive to not sin. So your arguement has no basis whatsoever.

[Redwulf]

Christ came to make a new covenent with man, so yes the old testiment is no longer the standard on christianity.

So, you're no longer standing by this statement then?

The 10 commandments are very clear and any one that does not live by them and the other rules set in the bible is not a good christian.

Or are the 10 commandments found in the NT?

[Camarone]

Again no one said that the OT has been abolished, but that the basis for christianity shifted from the OT to the NT and Christ.

[Nova Magna Germania]

Yes. And it appeared that your graph substantiated the claim. That is where I was confused. Did the graph refute or substantiate?

You think 14% for men who have sex with men vs 5-15% for the general male population substantiates your claim?

You are saying that 14% of homosexual men were abused and 15% of hetero men were abused, so the abuse has no affect on homosexuality? Fine. That is what I was questioning. However, the sample size seems a bit small.

No, 14% of men who have sex with men (87.7% considered themselves gay or homosexual, rest may consider themselves to be bi or even str8) vs the general male population (str8, bi, gay). First is the result from the study I quoted, 2nd is a Wiki quote (which includes multiple studies).

And it wasnt a census so results can be wrong.

[KiloMikeAlpha]

Epic Fail my friend. When I said the gospal was clear I ment it was clear on the subject of homosexuality. Such a tool. And also their is only one church, the Catholic church. Look it up, its the only church founded by Christ.

I beg to differ my friend. I must be mistaken, are you calling me a tool?

The notion that the Catholic Chuch was founded by Christ is only a Catholic notion. I am fully aware that the Catholics belive that priesthood authority passed from Peter to some Pope. That again, is a Catholic notion. There was in fact, a great apostasy, as prophecied by Amos. In fact, the Nicean Council created a creed based on man's compromise and debate, not based on Gods divine gospel. The Catholics then used the Creed as thier own, essentially becoming a Church of man and not God.


Amos 8
11 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord God, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the Lord:

The Great Restoration of the Church happend in the 1830's in upstate New York. That became the restored Church of Jesus Christ.

[Nova Magna Germania]

Or perhaps God, in his infinite wisdom, thought it was better to have a few non-reproducing individuals in every population. You know, so they could help their bethern raising their children and such.

Do giraffes do that?

Homosexual giraffes- yes. But it could be a coincidence
And of course, having non-reproducing members in a group is not limited to homosexuality. The concept of Alpha males anyone ? Or most of the insect world...

Still, this could be part of gods masterplan

homosexuality =/= non-reproducing members in a group

[KiloMikeAlpha]

Yes. And it appeared that your graph substantiated the claim. That is where I was confused. Did the graph refute or substantiate?

You think 14% for men who have sex with men vs 5-15% for the general male population substantiates your claim?

You are saying that 14% of homosexual men were abused and 15% of hetero men were abused, so the abuse has no affect on homosexuality? Fine. That is what I was questioning. However, the sample size seems a bit small.

No, 14% of men who have sex with men (87.7% considered themselves gay or homosexual, rest may consider themselves to be bi or even str8) vs the general male population (str8, bi, gay). First is the result from the study I quoted, 2nd is a Wiki quote (which includes multiple studies).

And it wasnt a census so results can be wrong.

You are simply regurgitating the statistics. What are you conclusions FROM those statistics?

[Ascon]

homosexuality =/= non-reproducing members in a group

Maybe we need another Venn diagram

[Lemiden]

Epic Fail my friend. When I said the gospal was clear I ment it was clear on the subject of homosexuality. Such a tool. And also their is only one church, the Catholic church. Look it up, its the only church founded by Christ.

I beg to differ my friend. I must be mistaken, are you calling me a tool?

The notion that the Catholic Chuch was founded by Christ is only a Catholic notion. I am fully aware that the Catholics belive that priesthood authority passed from Peter to some Pope. That again, is a Catholic notion. There was in fact, a great apostasy, as prophecied by Amos. In fact, the Nicean Council created a creed based on man's compromise and debate, not based on Gods divine gospel. The Catholics then used the Creed as thier own, essentially becoming a Church of man and not God.


Amos 8
11 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord God, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the Lord:

The Great Restoration of the Church happend in the 1830's in upstate New York. That became the restored Church of Jesus Christ.

Again, you are choosing which denomination to listen to. Both of you are not wrong, because you have faith in it. But I must point out that your view is also biased to the LDS side of things (I investigated this church when I was looking for my faith. Good people, I just did not believe in a new series of prophets.)

[Ascon]

Again, you are choosing which denomination to listen to. Both of you are not wrong, because you have faith in it. But I must point out that your view is also biased to the LDS side of things (I investigated this church when I was looking for my faith. Good people, I just did not believe in a new series of prophets.)

I think everybody does that, to some extent, even the Atheists. It's like with GoG, his arguments are mostly based around a monolithic view of Christianity as one single set of beliefs with exceptions kinda tossed around but not really relevant.

[Camarone]

Jesus gave the keys of heaven to peter and all that is fixed on earth will be fixed in heaven. Also every other church other then the catholic church was founded by men and not by christ.

[Lemiden]

Or perhaps God, in his infinite wisdom, thought it was better to have a few non-reproducing individuals in every population. You know, so they could help their bethern raising their children and such.

Do giraffes do that?

Homosexual giraffes- yes. But it could be a coincidence
And of course, having non-reproducing members in a group is not limited to homosexuality. The concept of Alpha males anyone ? Or most of the insect world...

Still, this could be part of gods masterplan

homosexuality =/= non-reproducing members in a group

I have always wondered if the high proportion of HIV/AIDs in AMERICA in gay men(dont start in with statistics from Africa) might be due to it not being right. No proof, just a consideration.

[Camarone]

Also no one is to add or to subtract from the word of god with the exception of Peter and his disiples b/c christ clearly gave him the authority do so.

[KiloMikeAlpha]

Jesus gave the keys of heaven to peter and all that is fixed on earth will be fixed in heaven. Also every other church other then the catholic church was founded by men and not by christ.

I will not argue that Jesus gave the keys to Peter. Peter died without transferring the keys to anyone, hence the "great apostasy".

[Ascon]

Jesus gave the keys of heaven to peter and all that is fixed on earth will be fixed in heaven. Also every other church other then the catholic church was founded by men and not by christ.

That's a matter of historical perspective, my friend. Some would argue that those keys were, in fact, Priesthood Authority to bind and loose on Earth, and not necessarily the founding moment of a Church.

[KiloMikeAlpha]

Also no one is to add or to subtract from the word of god with the exception of Peter and his disiples b/c christ clearly gave him the authority do so.

Really? So someone with the authority from Christ can add or subtract from the bible? I accept that.