Christianity and Homosexuality

[Farnhamia]

Well first of all, how do you know nobody wants to ban divorce?

Notice how I said almost nobody.

The Roman Cathloic Church does not allow or recognize divorce, or marry divorced persons unless they can somehow get their previous marriage annulled. And I venture to say the RC Church is bigger than "almost nobody."

[UnhealthyTruthseeker]

No, all sins are not equal. There are venial sins and mortal sins.

See Catholics say that but most Protestants I've talked with personally insist that all sins are equal.

[UnhealthyTruthseeker]

The Roman Cathloic Church does not allow or recognize divorce, or marry divorced persons unless they can somehow get their previous marriage annulled. And I venture to say the RC Church is bigger than "almost nobody."

Are they seeking to ban divorce? If not then they don't really count.

[Robonic]

Because they're (these "types" of Christians as you call them) human. And no matter what the bible says, we, as humans, still have a tendency to form a subconscious hierarchy of sins. All the Bible says is that before GOD all sins are equal; not before man. All men will consider lying "less sinful" than adultery; to ask them to do any less is to deny their humanity. Yes, it's wrong, but it is unavoidable. When one sets their mind upon judgement, it will always compartmentalize and order them from "least to greatest". That's why we're called not to judge, because GOD understood that no man can judge impartially. Personally, as a Christian, I believe that all of the aforementioned things are a "sin" but I do not judge these people for what they do; they are just as human as I am, and I am just as sinful as they are. I am not called to judge, only to love.

I think a truly logical and impartial judge would come to the conclusion that some sins are worse than others.

That depends if the judge is philosophically utilitarian or not. Yes, the outcome of certain sins are definitely worse than others. But if we take sin as the act of "rebellion against God" then all sins are done in the same nature, and thus, are equal. You must look at the action, not the consequence to determine the value of a sin. Ergo, all sins are done in an air of rebellion, no matter whether lying, murdering, or adultery it is all the same rebellious nature.

[JuNii]

added to that, Divorce was granted by Moses in the Old Testament. so it's untrue that a majority of Christians are against Divorce.

[UnhealthyTruthseeker]

You must look at the action, not the consequence to determine the value of a sin. Ergo, all sins are done in an air of rebellion, no matter whether lying, murdering, or adultery it is all the same rebellious nature.

You can look at the actions and see that some actions are inherently worse. Also, it is impossible to really separate actions from consequences. Kant tried that, and it led to an absolutely absurd moral system.

[Ashmoria]

Okay, there's something I don't get. According to Christian philosophy, all sins are equal and everyone's a sinner, right? So why do the kind of Christians that hate on homosexuals leave divorced people, adulterers, liars, and people that work on the sabbath alone? It's inconsistent and hypocritical.

because they arent perfect people and they rely on old fashioned values instead of thinking it through and realizing the error of their ways.

[Station 12]

Okay, there's something I don't get. According to Christian philosophy, all sins are equal and everyone's a sinner, right? So why do the kind of Christians that hate on homosexuals leave divorced people, adulterers, liars, and people that work on the sabbath alone? It's inconsistent and hypocritical.

because they arent perfect people and they rely on old fashioned values instead of thinking it through and realizing the error of their ways.

Because all Christians are stupid. -_-;

[ChippyT]

Okay, there's something I don't get. According to Christian philosophy, all sins are equal and everyone's a sinner, right? So why do the kind of Christians that hate on homosexuals leave divorced people, adulterers, liars, and people that work on the sabbath alone? It's inconsistent and hypocritical.

out

I think if you look at Christian philosophy you will see a ton of incosistencies. However if you look at scripture things are really pretty clear. The more Christians try to justify, rationalize, or reason the more convaluted things get. I think the real message that most miss with Christianity is that yes we all aspire to live a life like Christ. We all fall short each and every day. That is why I thank God for his grace and mercy. To answer your question aren't all sins equal... I think the bible talks about sins of the flesh in a different light. Those being murder, rape, and sensual sins. That is not only because of the lives it effects but also because it is next level. Why is sin a sin? Sin is really man trying to take Gods power away from him. Homosexuality- God created you and made you into the sex he wanted you. If you disagree with God you say he made a mistake and you should have really been the opposite sex. Or you don't believe in God at all in which case you believe you can do what you want. If you hate someone that is a sin, but when you go next level and take a life that is saying you want to hold the power of life in your hands. That is a power only God should have. Where Christians fail is when they fail to show love as Christ loves.

[UnhealthyTruthseeker]

out

I think if you look at Christian philosophy you will see a ton of incosistencies. However if you look at scripture things are really pretty clear. The more Christians try to justify, rationalize, or reason the more convaluted things get. I think the real message that most miss with Christianity is that yes we all aspire to live a life like Christ. We all fall short each and every day. That is why I thank God for his grace and mercy. To answer your question aren't all sins equal... I think the bible talks about sins of the flesh in a different light. Those being murder, rape, and sensual sins. That is not only because of the lives it effects but also because it is next level. Why is sin a sin? Sin is really man trying to take Gods power away from him. Homosexuality- God created you and made you into the sex he wanted you. If you disagree with God you say he made a mistake and you should have really been the opposite sex. Or you don't believe in God at all in which case you believe you can do what you want. If you hate someone that is a sin, but when you go next level and take a life that is saying you want to hold the power of life in your hands. That is a power only God should have. Where Christians fail is when they fail to show love as Christ loves.

You are aware that homosexuals and transgenders are completely different, right?

[JuNii]

The Roman Cathloic Church does not allow or recognize divorce, or marry divorced persons unless they can somehow get their previous marriage annulled. And I venture to say the RC Church is bigger than "almost nobody."

Are they seeking to ban divorce? If not then they don't really count.

oh, I see. so I guess "those Catholics" must not be against Killing since they are not trying to ban all forms of killing... I guess they are not against theft since they are not fighting to ban all forms of theft. oh and they must not be followers of God since they are not trying to ban all other forms of religion and even the notion of Atheism either...

[Pretzelshop]

In the bible and through Jesus' teachings it is stated and taught that all sin, regardless of what it is, is equal in God's eyes. We place different values to each but our opnions are just that and nothing more. God rules over judging people not humans.
Now after saying that I want to point out that I am devoutly atheist, but was for many years raised protestant. But my views on gay marriage is that if thats their choice leave them to it, how are they hurting you or damning you in any way?

[Farnhamia]

out

I think if you look at Christian philosophy you will see a ton of incosistencies. However if you look at scripture things are really pretty clear. The more Christians try to justify, rationalize, or reason the more convaluted things get. I think the real message that most miss with Christianity is that yes we all aspire to live a life like Christ. We all fall short each and every day. That is why I thank God for his grace and mercy. To answer your question aren't all sins equal... I think the bible talks about sins of the flesh in a different light. Those being murder, rape, and sensual sins. That is not only because of the lives it effects but also because it is next level. Why is sin a sin? Sin is really man trying to take Gods power away from him. Homosexuality- God created you and made you into the sex he wanted you. If you disagree with God you say he made a mistake and you should have really been the opposite sex. Or you don't believe in God at all in which case you believe you can do what you want. If you hate someone that is a sin, but when you go next level and take a life that is saying you want to hold the power of life in your hands. That is a power only God should have. Where Christians fail is when they fail to show love as Christ loves.

You are aware that homosexuals and transgenders are completely different, right?

I doubt that matters, though I suppose one might say that transgenders are worse because until homosexuals, who only act against God's will, Transgenders try to actually change the bodies God personally created for them in their mother's wombs.

[ChippyT]

out

I think if you look at Christian philosophy you will see a ton of incosistencies. However if you look at scripture things are really pretty clear. The more Christians try to justify, rationalize, or reason the more convaluted things get. I think the real message that most miss with Christianity is that yes we all aspire to live a life like Christ. We all fall short each and every day. That is why I thank God for his grace and mercy. To answer your question aren't all sins equal... I think the bible talks about sins of the flesh in a different light. Those being murder, rape, and sensual sins. That is not only because of the lives it effects but also because it is next level. Why is sin a sin? Sin is really man trying to take Gods power away from him. Homosexuality- God created you and made you into the sex he wanted you. If you disagree with God you say he made a mistake and you should have really been the opposite sex. Or you don't believe in God at all in which case you believe you can do what you want. If you hate someone that is a sin, but when you go next level and take a life that is saying you want to hold the power of life in your hands. That is a power only God should have. Where Christians fail is when they fail to show love as Christ loves.

You are aware that homosexuals and transgenders are completely different, right?

In the beginning God created Man and Woman. Adam and Eve. When you say you are a homosexual you are saying what God created for you is not what satisfies you. God made a mistake. That is why it is a sin.

[Nonrex]

Well, not all Christians believe any of those things. Case in point, I am Christian and could not care less if someone is gay or not. All I care about is if they worship GOD!
(kidding. I don't care about that either. You could worship Cthulhu for all I care)

[UnhealthyTruthseeker]

oh, I see. so I guess "those Catholics" must not be against Killing since they are not trying to ban all forms of killing... I guess they are not against theft since they are not fighting to ban all forms of theft. oh and they must not be followers of God since they are not trying to ban all other forms of religion and even the notion of Atheism either...

No, I'm saying that if they are in favor of banning same sex marriage, but not i favor of banning divorce, then they are exactly what I'm talking about. If they aren't in favor of banning either, then they aren't the kind of Christian I was talking about. If they are in favor of banning both, then they are a counter to what I was talking about.

Seriously READ MY POSTS and if you don't understand what I'm saying STOP FILLING IN THE BLANKS WITH THE MOST ABSURD POSSIBLE INTERPRETATION.

[Farnhamia]

out

I think if you look at Christian philosophy you will see a ton of incosistencies. However if you look at scripture things are really pretty clear. The more Christians try to justify, rationalize, or reason the more convaluted things get. I think the real message that most miss with Christianity is that yes we all aspire to live a life like Christ. We all fall short each and every day. That is why I thank God for his grace and mercy. To answer your question aren't all sins equal... I think the bible talks about sins of the flesh in a different light. Those being murder, rape, and sensual sins. That is not only because of the lives it effects but also because it is next level. Why is sin a sin? Sin is really man trying to take Gods power away from him. Homosexuality- God created you and made you into the sex he wanted you. If you disagree with God you say he made a mistake and you should have really been the opposite sex. Or you don't believe in God at all in which case you believe you can do what you want. If you hate someone that is a sin, but when you go next level and take a life that is saying you want to hold the power of life in your hands. That is a power only God should have. Where Christians fail is when they fail to show love as Christ loves.

You are aware that homosexuals and transgenders are completely different, right?

In the beginning God created Man and Woman. Adam and Eve. When you say you are a homosexual you are saying what God created for you is not what satisfies you. God made a mistake. That is why it is a sin.

Well, that's your opinion, and you're welcome to it. All I ask is you keep your "God" out of the law.

[Ashmoria]

Okay, there's something I don't get. According to Christian philosophy, all sins are equal and everyone's a sinner, right? So why do the kind of Christians that hate on homosexuals leave divorced people, adulterers, liars, and people that work on the sabbath alone? It's inconsistent and hypocritical.

because they arent perfect people and they rely on old fashioned values instead of thinking it through and realizing the error of their ways.

Because all Christians are stupid. -_-;

i dont think you can take that from my statment.

[Ashmoria]

out

I think if you look at Christian philosophy you will see a ton of incosistencies. However if you look at scripture things are really pretty clear. The more Christians try to justify, rationalize, or reason the more convaluted things get. I think the real message that most miss with Christianity is that yes we all aspire to live a life like Christ. We all fall short each and every day. That is why I thank God for his grace and mercy. To answer your question aren't all sins equal... I think the bible talks about sins of the flesh in a different light. Those being murder, rape, and sensual sins. That is not only because of the lives it effects but also because it is next level. Why is sin a sin? Sin is really man trying to take Gods power away from him. Homosexuality- God created you and made you into the sex he wanted you. If you disagree with God you say he made a mistake and you should have really been the opposite sex. Or you don't believe in God at all in which case you believe you can do what you want. If you hate someone that is a sin, but when you go next level and take a life that is saying you want to hold the power of life in your hands. That is a power only God should have. Where Christians fail is when they fail to show love as Christ loves.

You are aware that homosexuals and transgenders are completely different, right?

In the beginning God created Man and Woman. Adam and Eve. When you say you are a homosexual you are saying what God created for you is not what satisfies you. God made a mistake. That is why it is a sin.

or thats why its NOT a sin because god doesnt make that kind of mistake.

[Farnhamia]

out

I think if you look at Christian philosophy you will see a ton of incosistencies. However if you look at scripture things are really pretty clear. The more Christians try to justify, rationalize, or reason the more convaluted things get. I think the real message that most miss with Christianity is that yes we all aspire to live a life like Christ. We all fall short each and every day. That is why I thank God for his grace and mercy. To answer your question aren't all sins equal... I think the bible talks about sins of the flesh in a different light. Those being murder, rape, and sensual sins. That is not only because of the lives it effects but also because it is next level. Why is sin a sin? Sin is really man trying to take Gods power away from him. Homosexuality- God created you and made you into the sex he wanted you. If you disagree with God you say he made a mistake and you should have really been the opposite sex. Or you don't believe in God at all in which case you believe you can do what you want. If you hate someone that is a sin, but when you go next level and take a life that is saying you want to hold the power of life in your hands. That is a power only God should have. Where Christians fail is when they fail to show love as Christ loves.

You are aware that homosexuals and transgenders are completely different, right?

In the beginning God created Man and Woman. Adam and Eve. When you say you are a homosexual you are saying what God created for you is not what satisfies you. God made a mistake. That is why it is a sin.

or thats why its NOT a sin because god doesnt make that kind of mistake.

Silly Ash, all humans are flawed in the very basis of their being because Adam and Eve disobeyed God. The mistake is ours, not God's.

[UnhealthyTruthseeker]

In the beginning God created Man and Woman. Adam and Eve. When you say you are a homosexual you are saying what God created for you is not what satisfies you. God made a mistake. That is why it is a sin.

When you are a homosexual you happen to have an inborn sexual attraction to members of the same sex and lack a sexual attraction to members of the opposite sex. If god didn't want you to be like that, then it's his screw-up, not yours.

Also, couldn't we say the same for medicine? God gave us an immune system, so when you use medicine to fix an illness you are saying that what god gave you isn't good enough.

In fact, this argument could be used (and has been used historically) to justify refusing any and all technology.

[Pope Joan]

That bit about all sins being equal is not universal dogma.

Catholics have two categories of sin, you know. Some you can patch over with a Pater Noster.

Mennonites don't have a teaching on it but we try to look more for active virtues and look at vices as being an absence of virtue.

So, lying is just a lack of honesty, which is a higher value for us.

We can't make up our minds about homosexuality so we leave it up to every congregation to decide for themselves.

[UnhealthyTruthseeker]

Well, not all Christians believe any of those things. Case in point, I am Christian and could not care less if someone is gay or not. All I care about is if they worship GOD!
(kidding. I don't care about that either. You could worship Cthulhu for all I care)

This is so nerdy and yet so awesome. All hail memetic mutation!

[JuNii]

oh, I see. so I guess "those Catholics" must not be against Killing since they are not trying to ban all forms of killing... I guess they are not against theft since they are not fighting to ban all forms of theft. oh and they must not be followers of God since they are not trying to ban all other forms of religion and even the notion of Atheism either...

No, I'm saying that if they are in favor of banning same sex marriage, but not i favor of banning divorce, then they are exactly what I'm talking about. If they aren't in favor of banning either, then they aren't the kind of Christian I was talking about. If they are in favor of banning both, then they are a counter to what I was talking about.

Seriously READ MY POSTS and if you don't understand what I'm saying STOP FILLING IN THE BLANKS WITH THE MOST ABSURD POSSIBLE INTERPRETATION.

wrong, you are the one putting in Absurd Interpretations.

Are they seeking to ban divorce? If not then they don't really count.

you only are counting them if they are VOCAL about it and seek to ban it. yet you seem to have ignored my post that said Divorce is already in the law books, and hence why they are not fighting it as vocally as to warrant YOUR approval because they already LOST that battle. hence they do what they can. by not acknowledging it in the eyes of the Church.

Prostitution (a major source of 'infidelity') is illegal and 'those' Christians are fighting to keep it that way. they already lost on the Alcohol front and are fighting the 'wicked video games' yet you don't see that because you don't want to see that. because acknowledging it removes the main pedestal on your little rant in your OP.

[Dempublicents1]

Well first of all, how do you know nobody wants to ban divorce?

Notice how I said almost nobody.

The Roman Cathloic Church does not allow or recognize divorce, or marry divorced persons unless they can somehow get their previous marriage annulled. And I venture to say the RC Church is bigger than "almost nobody."

But they aren't trying to stop people from getting legally divorced or legally remarried (at least not in the US - I can't speak for other countries). The Catholic Church can and will go on believing that a divorced person is still married and will not recognize any new marriage they enter into. However, the Catholic Church is not interfering in the legal ability of those persons to do so.

Likewise, some churches see working on Sunday (or Saturday, occasionally) as a sin and would chide their own parishioners for it. However, you don't see many efforts to making working on the Sabbath illegal (although there certainly are efforts to make it harder).

Pretty much all churches see adultery as a bad thing, but you don't see them lobbying to have it made illegal. No one is suggesting that an adulterer be legally punished or even lose any legal protections for said sin.

Yet many churches think it is quite permissible to use their religious views about homosexuality to push for less legal protection for homosexuals. They think that - even though they have been and will continue to recognize marriages differently from the government - allowing the government to provide equal marriage protection to same-sex couples would somehow be an "attack" on their own brand of marriage.

Now, I'm sure there are plenty of ways to rationalize these things, but none that I've seen make sense to me.

added to that, Divorce was granted by Moses in the Old Testament. so it's untrue that a majority of Christians are against Divorce.

Ah, but Jesus said that Moses only allowed it because the people were sinful.