Christianity and Homosexuality

[UnhealthyTruthseeker]

you only are counting them if they are VOCAL about it and seek to ban it. yet you seem to have ignored my post that said Divorce is already in the law books, and hence why they are not fighting it as vocally as to warrant YOUR approval because they already LOST that battle. hence they do what they can. by not acknowledging it in the eyes of the Church.

Prostitution (a major source of 'infidelity') is illegal and 'those' Christians are fighting to keep it that way. they already lost on the Alcohol front and are fighting the 'wicked video games' yet you don't see that because you don't want to see that. because acknowledging it removes the main pedestal on your little rant in your OP.

They should be equally vocal about all these things that they seek to ban, if, as many Christians, they believe all sins are equally bad. They should also seek to ban all forms of sin to the same degree.

[ChippyT]

In the beginning God created Man and Woman. Adam and Eve. When you say you are a homosexual you are saying what God created for you is not what satisfies you. God made a mistake. That is why it is a sin.

When you are a homosexual you happen to have an inborn sexual attraction to members of the same sex and lack a sexual attraction to members of the opposite sex. If god didn't want you to be like that, then it's his screw-up, not yours.

Also, couldn't we say the same for medicine? God gave us an immune system, so when you use medicine to fix an illness you are saying that what god gave you isn't good enough.

In fact, this argument could be used (and has been used historically) to justify refusing any and all technology.

There is truth in what you say. We are all preprogrammed to sin. The Bible says by one man sin entered the world. When sin entered the world it changed things. It also says we are all born into sin. So yes we all have tendencies to sin. Also the further from the Garden of Eden we get the more our human bodies are weakened and mutated by sin. If you think of the Garden as a pure mountain spring and our society now as a polluted river. The great thing about Christianity is that Christ died for our polluted selves and offers to make us that clean mountain spring again. That is why I love Christ and choose to believe in Him. I choose to believe what God says in the Bible. I also know that we all struggle with sins that have stronger pulls on us due to genetic makeups. God's grace is sufficient for all.

[Farnhamia]

Well first of all, how do you know nobody wants to ban divorce?

Notice how I said almost nobody.

The Roman Cathloic Church does not allow or recognize divorce, or marry divorced persons unless they can somehow get their previous marriage annulled. And I venture to say the RC Church is bigger than "almost nobody."

But they aren't trying to stop people from getting legally divorced or legally remarried (at least not in the US - I can't speak for other countries). The Catholic Church can and will go on believing that a divorced person is still married and will not recognize any new marriage they enter into. However, the Catholic Church is not interfering in the legal ability of those persons to do so.

Likewise, some churches see working on Sunday (or Saturday, occasionally) as a sin and would chide their own parishioners for it. However, you don't see many efforts to making working on the Sabbath illegal (although there certainly are efforts to make it harder).

Pretty much all churches see adultery as a bad thing, but you don't see them lobbying to have it made illegal. No one is suggesting that an adulterer be legally punished or even lose any legal protections for said sin.

Yet many churches think it is quite permissible to use their religious views about homosexuality to push for less legal protection for homosexuals. They think that - even though they have been and will continue to recognize marriages differently from the government - allowing the government to provide equal marriage protection to same-sex couples would somehow be an "attack" on their own brand of marriage.

Now, I'm sure there are plenty of ways to rationalize these things, but none that I've seen make sense to me.

added to that, Divorce was granted by Moses in the Old Testament. so it's untrue that a majority of Christians are against Divorce.

Ah, but Jesus said that Moses only allowed it because the people were sinful.

Point taken on divorce, Demi, though in many Latin American and European countries with a Catholic majority, divorce has only become possible very recently (the 1980s in Brazil, I think).

[UnhealthyTruthseeker]

There is truth in what you say. We are all preprogrammed to sin. The Bible says by one man sin entered the world. When sin entered the world it changed things. It also says we are all born into sin. So yes we all have tendencies to sin. Also the further from the Garden of Eden we get the more our human bodies are weakened and mutated by sin. If you think of the Garden as a pure mountain spring and our society now as a polluted river. The great thing about Christianity is that Christ died for our polluted selves and offers to make us that clean mountain spring again. That is why I love Christ and choose to believe in Him. I choose to believe what God says in the Bible. I also know that we all struggle with sins that have stronger pulls on us due to genetic makeups. God's grace is sufficient for all.

I thought we were mutated by changes in DNA. However, answer my charge. Are you opposed to medicine? By your own logic against homosexuality, you should be. If you aren't, then you need to find a different argument for why homosexuality is bad.

[JuNii]

you only are counting them if they are VOCAL about it and seek to ban it. yet you seem to have ignored my post that said Divorce is already in the law books, and hence why they are not fighting it as vocally as to warrant YOUR approval because they already LOST that battle. hence they do what they can. by not acknowledging it in the eyes of the Church.

Prostitution (a major source of 'infidelity') is illegal and 'those' Christians are fighting to keep it that way. they already lost on the Alcohol front and are fighting the 'wicked video games' yet you don't see that because you don't want to see that. because acknowledging it removes the main pedestal on your little rant in your OP.

They should be equally vocal about all these things that they seek to ban, if, as many Christians, they believe all sins are equally bad. They should also seek to ban all forms of sin to the same degree.

and again, you're moving the goal post. Divorce is stipulated in the bible. hence why you don't see many Christians up in arms against it. the same can be said for Homosexuality, yet like many will attest, a lot of Christians pick and choose the laws they follow. Just because YOU don't see it on the news, doesn't mean they are or are not fighting it.

[Dempublicents1]

you only are counting them if they are VOCAL about it and seek to ban it. yet you seem to have ignored my post that said Divorce is already in the law books, and hence why they are not fighting it as vocally as to warrant YOUR approval because they already LOST that battle. hence they do what they can. by not acknowledging it in the eyes of the Church.

Laws can change. Are you saying that, once same-sex marriage is legalized, all those opposed will shut up and just privately not approve? Because I don't really think that's the way it works.

I think the difference here is that Catholics, in general, are quite happy with being different from other religions and from the law in this matter and thus don't try to force it on others. For some reason, however, many are not content with personally disapproving of same-sex marriage. Instead, they have to try to encode that disapproval into law.

Prostitution (a major source of 'infidelity') is illegal and 'those' Christians are fighting to keep it that way.

Do you honestly believe that the majority of affairs are with prostitutes? If not, I don't really see how prostitution is relevant.

[JuNii]

added to that, Divorce was granted by Moses in the Old Testament. so it's untrue that a majority of Christians are against Divorce.

Ah, but Jesus said that Moses only allowed it because the people were sinful.

ah, but the point is, that it was Allowed by one of God's Major Prophets.

[UnhealthyTruthseeker]

and again, you're moving the goal post. Divorce is stipulated in the bible. hence why you don't see many Christians up in arms against it. the same can be said for Homosexuality, yet like many will attest, a lot of Christians pick and choose the laws they follow. Just because YOU don't see it on the news, doesn't mean they are or are not fighting it.

Jesus also had some really bad things to say about divorce, so that point is moot.

[JuNii]

you only are counting them if they are VOCAL about it and seek to ban it. yet you seem to have ignored my post that said Divorce is already in the law books, and hence why they are not fighting it as vocally as to warrant YOUR approval because they already LOST that battle. hence they do what they can. by not acknowledging it in the eyes of the Church.

Laws can change. Are you saying that, once same-sex marriage is legalized, all those opposed will shut up and just privately not approve? Because I don't really think that's the way it works.

I think the difference here is that Catholics, in general, are quite happy with being different from other religions and from the law in this matter and thus don't try to force it on others. For some reason, however, many are not content with personally disapproving of same-sex marriage. Instead, they have to try to encode that disapproval into law.

as some some say, some churches don't allow divorce.

Prostitution (a major source of 'infidelity') is illegal and 'those' Christians are fighting to keep it that way.

Do you honestly believe that the majority of affairs are with prostitutes? If not, I don't really see how prostitution is relevant.

going by the supposed viewpoints of UT's "Type of Christians".

[JuNii]

and again, you're moving the goal post. Divorce is stipulated in the bible. hence why you don't see many Christians up in arms against it. the same can be said for Homosexuality, yet like many will attest, a lot of Christians pick and choose the laws they follow. Just because YOU don't see it on the news, doesn't mean they are or are not fighting it.

Jesus also had some really bad things to say about divorce, so that point is moot.

nope, he gave stipulations.

[Nova Magna Germania]

In the beginning God created Man and Woman. Adam and Eve. When you say you are a homosexual you are saying what God created for you is not what satisfies you. God made a mistake. That is why it is a sin.

When you are a homosexual you happen to have an inborn sexual attraction to members of the same sex and lack a sexual attraction to members of the opposite sex. If god didn't want you to be like that, then it's his screw-up, not yours.

Also, couldn't we say the same for medicine? God gave us an immune system, so when you use medicine to fix an illness you are saying that what god gave you isn't good enough.

In fact, this argument could be used (and has been used historically) to justify refusing any and all technology.

There is truth in what you say. We are all preprogrammed to sin. The Bible says by one man sin entered the world. When sin entered the world it changed things. It also says we are all born into sin. So yes we all have tendencies to sin. Also the further from the Garden of Eden we get the more our human bodies are weakened and mutated by sin. If you think of the Garden as a pure mountain spring and our society now as a polluted river. The great thing about Christianity is that Christ died for our polluted selves and offers to make us that clean mountain spring again. That is why I love Christ and choose to believe in Him. I choose to believe what God says in the Bible. I also know that we all struggle with sins that have stronger pulls on us due to genetic makeups. God's grace is sufficient for all.

So why dont you leave your computer and go back to jungle and repent for using things alleged Xtian God supposedly didnt create at the claimed very beginning?

Or you may argue that the alleged Xtian God created alleged Adam and Eve as bi but they just didnt have any1 else.

I mean how old are you seriously? You can come up with millions of different things/combos from "God made Adam and Steve" to fit pretty much everything.

[Ashmoria]

you only are counting them if they are VOCAL about it and seek to ban it. yet you seem to have ignored my post that said Divorce is already in the law books, and hence why they are not fighting it as vocally as to warrant YOUR approval because they already LOST that battle. hence they do what they can. by not acknowledging it in the eyes of the Church.

Prostitution (a major source of 'infidelity') is illegal and 'those' Christians are fighting to keep it that way. they already lost on the Alcohol front and are fighting the 'wicked video games' yet you don't see that because you don't want to see that. because acknowledging it removes the main pedestal on your little rant in your OP.

They should be equally vocal about all these things that they seek to ban, if, as many Christians, they believe all sins are equally bad. They should also seek to ban all forms of sin to the same degree.

all sins are equally bad as sins.

as societal problems, they are not equal.

[UnhealthyTruthseeker]

as societal problems, they are not equal.

Correct, divorce is a far worse social problem than any potential problems that could be caused by gay marriage.

[Allbeama]

Okay, there's something I don't get. According to Christian philosophy, all sins are equal and everyone's a sinner, right? So why do the kind of Christians that hate on homosexuals leave divorced people, adulterers, liars, and people that work on the sabbath alone? It's inconsistent and hypocritical.

Because the bolded is generally a good way to describe their character. At least those who hate gays for religious reasons.

[Ashmoria]

as societal problems, they are not equal.

Correct, divorce is a far worse social problem than any potential problems that could be caused by gay marriage.

in your opinion.

but

divorce is a lost battle, gay marriage is one that can still be won.

[UnhealthyTruthseeker]

in your opinion.

An opinion backed by reality.

[Ashmoria]

in your opinion.

An opinion backed by reality.

*shrug*

[Nova Magna Germania]

as societal problems, they are not equal.

Correct, divorce is a far worse social problem than any potential problems that could be caused by gay marriage.

Neither is a social problem.

[Gotter des Krieges]

Why are you only "attacking Christians? Other religions hate homosexuals just as much, if not more.

[Farnhamia]

In the beginning God created Man and Woman. Adam and Eve. When you say you are a homosexual you are saying what God created for you is not what satisfies you. God made a mistake. That is why it is a sin.

When you are a homosexual you happen to have an inborn sexual attraction to members of the same sex and lack a sexual attraction to members of the opposite sex. If god didn't want you to be like that, then it's his screw-up, not yours.

Also, couldn't we say the same for medicine? God gave us an immune system, so when you use medicine to fix an illness you are saying that what god gave you isn't good enough.

In fact, this argument could be used (and has been used historically) to justify refusing any and all technology.

There is truth in what you say. We are all preprogrammed to sin. The Bible says by one man sin entered the world. When sin entered the world it changed things. It also says we are all born into sin. So yes we all have tendencies to sin. Also the further from the Garden of Eden we get the more our human bodies are weakened and mutated by sin. If you think of the Garden as a pure mountain spring and our society now as a polluted river. The great thing about Christianity is that Christ died for our polluted selves and offers to make us that clean mountain spring again. That is why I love Christ and choose to believe in Him. I choose to believe what God says in the Bible. I also know that we all struggle with sins that have stronger pulls on us due to genetic makeups. God's grace is sufficient for all.

You may be preprogrammed to sin. I'm not. No "God" created me. I deny your Bronze Age, flesh-demanding, city-killing, world-flooding god and call him myth and call him legend and cast him out into the Library of Things Humans Used to Think Were Real. Can we get on with Civilization now?

[Nova Magna Germania]

Why are you only "attacking Christian? Other religions hate homosexuals just as much.

Judaism is better than Xtianity (given Israel's laws and political positons of jewish people in the West). Most countries with majority muslim populations are usually very bad in human rights overall. That leaves Asian religions, for the most part.

In West however, human rights are usually ok, but human rights violations against people are primarily supported by Christians.

[Gotter des Krieges]

but human rights violations against people are primarily supported by Christians.

I agree with everything you said before this, but this is a little extreme.

[Nova Magna Germania]

but human rights violations against people are primarily supported by Christians.

I agree with everything you said before this, but this is a little extreme.

eg:

.......
Benedict's envoy to the United Nations, Archbishop Celestino Migliore, has announced that the Vatican will oppose a proposed U.N. declaration calling for an end to discrimination against homosexuals.
......

http://www.time.com/time/world/article/ ... 65,00.html

[Farnhamia]

but human rights violations against people are primarily supported by Christians.

I agree with everything you said before this, but this is a little extreme.

eg:

.......
Benedict's envoy to the United Nations, Archbishop Celestino Migliore, has announced that the Vatican will oppose a proposed U.N. declaration calling for an end to discrimination against homosexuals.
......

http://www.time.com/time/world/article/ ... 65,00.html

And who is surprised at this?

[Nova Magna Germania]

but human rights violations against people are primarily supported by Christians.

I agree with everything you said before this, but this is a little extreme.

eg:

.......
Benedict's envoy to the United Nations, Archbishop Celestino Migliore, has announced that the Vatican will oppose a proposed U.N. declaration calling for an end to discrimination against homosexuals.
......

http://www.time.com/time/world/article/ ... 65,00.html

And who is surprised at this?

Gotter des Krieges, apparently. Too bad people are so used to Christian hate speech against LGBT's.