NATION

PASSWORD

Objections to monarchy

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

Advertisement

Remove ads

User avatar
North Yakistan
Diplomat
 
Posts: 952
Founded: Jun 30, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby North Yakistan » Sat Aug 24, 2013 12:18 am

Distruzio wrote:Hi there! I am DIstruzio, NSG's resident Eastern Orthodox Libertarian Monarchist. I used to refer to myself as an anarcho-monarchist but after a conversation with my Bishop and after years of conversations on this site, I've decided that it is, perhaps, better to identify myself in a less confusing manner. Folks tended to focus on preconceived notions of anarchy and monarchy rather than on anything I actually said. Which, of itself, limited my ability to respond to people. So... fuck that noise. Libertarian monarchy it is.

I'm anti-statist. Not astatist. I reject the State. I don't pretend it doesn't exist.

But an identifier change isn't the purpose of this thread. The purpose is to address, as best I can, common attacks by the democratist (an advocate for democratic governance) against monarchy.

First and foremost, we must recall that some criticisms of monarchy equally apply to democracy itself. Although democracy allows the people some influence over the government, they do not and cannot actually run it. Even popularly elected governments are governments of rule from above. Thus the common trope of "authoritarian" governance being absent from a democracy rings rather flaccid. There is, in reality, no difference of substance between an aristocratic government and a democratic government, only degree.

Along this same vein of inane bleating against monarchy comes the condemnation of monarchy as a divisive symbol of inequality. The democratist, in making this critique, creates an idealistic society in which every individual enjoys the exact same status and from this status derives the same right, if not the same ability, to rise to the highest of political offices. But this stretches the actual meaning of democracy from a manner and method of choosing political authority to an egalitarian social ethos. A pipedream. It also creates a false dichotomy for monarchy need not obstruct easy relations among persons of different occupations and backgrounds; a suspicious egalitarianism is likelier to do that. In no society can all persons have the same status.

What the democratist actually complains about in this most common of tropes is divisiveness. But, I must ask, what is not divisive about an election? Are there not winners and losers? Is there not a victorious majority and an expropriated minority? A monarch, however, cannot symbolize defeat to supporters of other candidates, for there were none. He has no further political opportunities or ambitions except to perform his duties as monarch and perform them well in order that he might maintain the good name of his dynasty. A monarch stands neutral above partisan party politics. Obviously, therefore, a monarch is preservative rather than active. He secures his peoples freedoms.

Alongside a monarch comes, by necessity, the nobility - the aristocratic elite. They can provide an alternative to sheer wealth or notoriety as a source of distinction and so dilute the fawning over celebrities characteristic of modern democracies. If anything this rather disputes the claim of divisiveness in monarchy - it goes further still. Within this lens we see that it is democracy, not monarchy, that breeds a divided population.

I'm reminded of the words of H.L. Mencken:

"No educated man, stating plainly the elementary notions that every educated man holds about the matters that principally concern government, could be elected to office in a democratic state, save perhaps by a miracle. … It has become a psychic impossibility for a gentleman to hold office under the Federal Union, save by a combination of miracles that must tax the resourcefulness even of God. — the man of native integrity is either barred from the public service altogether, or subjected to almost irresistible temptations after he gets in."


For, the critiques continue... what if the monarch is a nutbag - a manifest danger to society? Well... what of a regency, popular among the people, to guard them against cruelty and incompetence until the next heir is ready? And, I ask, how is this behavior avoided in the modern and liberal democracies? A democratist politician is elevated not because of birthright or ability but, on the contrary, because of his incompetence. His lack of knowledge. A politician cannot be knowledgeable of economics or he cannot win office. He cannot be morally stalwart or he cannot win office. He cannot be anything but a liar, a grafter, a lickspittle, a politician. Otherwise, he does not win office.

It is true that there is, throughout history, a wonderful tradition of amazing statesmen who were public-spirited, well educated, and morally stalwart. They did not meet the measure of the buffoons characterizing modern liberal democracies. Why not? Because these statesmen existed and thrived in relatively less democratic nations. It seems that, in reality, Gresham's Law guides the political winds today.

So... for those who would argue that certain monarchies exist alongside democratic institutions I must point out that, among these nations, the monarch serves to dilute and otherwise guard against the democratic tendencies of the nation. Even in America there exists a non-elected elite for the sole purpose of protecting and ensuring the liberty of the population. This, I believe, is the utilitarian reason for supporting a monarchy. Beyond mere continuity and identity of the culture and heritage of the nation.

What say you, NSG? Are there critiques of monarchy from a democratic perspective that I have missed? Have I been unconvincing?


Very well put. I am not an AnCap, but while not an AnMon I do prefer alot of monarchies to other forms of government. Maybe its the romantic in me but i am rather fond of monarchies. I do have a very primitivist strain in me and come from a low population rural area so alot of my ideas for the formation of a theoretical AnMon society would be more tailored to that than a vast modern nation of millions.

I would advocate for a meritocratic monarchy, the kind found in Pre-Christian Germanic culture, by which chiefs, lords, jarls, and kings are sometimes elected by means of a "Thing". People give credit to the Greeks for inventing democracy, but their democracy was wiped away by the Dark ages, while Germanic democracy, by way of the Thing, is the foundation for English common law. I would advocate each individual settlement have an elected leader (a king if thats what they want him called) who may or may not pass it on to his kin or a chosen successor. The only problem I see with hereditary rule is that this is the way that psychopaths like Caligula wind up in power. Not to say your normal democratic government isnt full of scum bags and genocidal nuts, but if the people dont have a method to remove the leader without force of arms then thats a pretty nasty situation.
Politics
I am a Voluntarist Anarchist. Break your chains and smash the state!

Pro:Free Markets, Free people, Free love, property rights, privacy rights, weapons rights, Survivalism, Homesteading, Seasteding, Micronations, self ownership, non-Agression principal, and pAnarchism.

Against: The State, Marxism, Communism, State Capitalism, Taxation, Victimless crimes, the initiation of force, and urbanization.

Economic Left/Right: 9
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -6.92
“What anarcho-communists see as existing because of the state, ancaps see as existing despite the state and vice versa.”

pAnarchism

User avatar
North Yakistan
Diplomat
 
Posts: 952
Founded: Jun 30, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby North Yakistan » Sat Aug 24, 2013 12:20 am

Ikigain wrote:
European Socialist Republic wrote:Listen. Strange women lying in ponds, distributing swords, is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony! You can't expect to wield supreme power just 'cause some watery tart threw a sword at you! I mean, if I went 'round saying I was an emperor, just because some moistened bint had lobbed a scimitar at me, they'd put me away!

You deserve a fucking award!

Whats your address, i will MAKE you a god dammed award!
Politics
I am a Voluntarist Anarchist. Break your chains and smash the state!

Pro:Free Markets, Free people, Free love, property rights, privacy rights, weapons rights, Survivalism, Homesteading, Seasteding, Micronations, self ownership, non-Agression principal, and pAnarchism.

Against: The State, Marxism, Communism, State Capitalism, Taxation, Victimless crimes, the initiation of force, and urbanization.

Economic Left/Right: 9
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -6.92
“What anarcho-communists see as existing because of the state, ancaps see as existing despite the state and vice versa.”

pAnarchism

User avatar
The Parkus Empire
Post Czar
 
Posts: 43030
Founded: Sep 12, 2005
Ex-Nation

Postby The Parkus Empire » Sat Aug 24, 2013 12:32 am

North Yakistan wrote:
Distruzio wrote:Hi there! I am DIstruzio, NSG's resident Eastern Orthodox Libertarian Monarchist. I used to refer to myself as an anarcho-monarchist but after a conversation with my Bishop and after years of conversations on this site, I've decided that it is, perhaps, better to identify myself in a less confusing manner. Folks tended to focus on preconceived notions of anarchy and monarchy rather than on anything I actually said. Which, of itself, limited my ability to respond to people. So... fuck that noise. Libertarian monarchy it is.

I'm anti-statist. Not astatist. I reject the State. I don't pretend it doesn't exist.

But an identifier change isn't the purpose of this thread. The purpose is to address, as best I can, common attacks by the democratist (an advocate for democratic governance) against monarchy.

First and foremost, we must recall that some criticisms of monarchy equally apply to democracy itself. Although democracy allows the people some influence over the government, they do not and cannot actually run it. Even popularly elected governments are governments of rule from above. Thus the common trope of "authoritarian" governance being absent from a democracy rings rather flaccid. There is, in reality, no difference of substance between an aristocratic government and a democratic government, only degree.

Along this same vein of inane bleating against monarchy comes the condemnation of monarchy as a divisive symbol of inequality. The democratist, in making this critique, creates an idealistic society in which every individual enjoys the exact same status and from this status derives the same right, if not the same ability, to rise to the highest of political offices. But this stretches the actual meaning of democracy from a manner and method of choosing political authority to an egalitarian social ethos. A pipedream. It also creates a false dichotomy for monarchy need not obstruct easy relations among persons of different occupations and backgrounds; a suspicious egalitarianism is likelier to do that. In no society can all persons have the same status.

What the democratist actually complains about in this most common of tropes is divisiveness. But, I must ask, what is not divisive about an election? Are there not winners and losers? Is there not a victorious majority and an expropriated minority? A monarch, however, cannot symbolize defeat to supporters of other candidates, for there were none. He has no further political opportunities or ambitions except to perform his duties as monarch and perform them well in order that he might maintain the good name of his dynasty. A monarch stands neutral above partisan party politics. Obviously, therefore, a monarch is preservative rather than active. He secures his peoples freedoms.

Alongside a monarch comes, by necessity, the nobility - the aristocratic elite. They can provide an alternative to sheer wealth or notoriety as a source of distinction and so dilute the fawning over celebrities characteristic of modern democracies. If anything this rather disputes the claim of divisiveness in monarchy - it goes further still. Within this lens we see that it is democracy, not monarchy, that breeds a divided population.

I'm reminded of the words of H.L. Mencken:

"No educated man, stating plainly the elementary notions that every educated man holds about the matters that principally concern government, could be elected to office in a democratic state, save perhaps by a miracle. … It has become a psychic impossibility for a gentleman to hold office under the Federal Union, save by a combination of miracles that must tax the resourcefulness even of God. — the man of native integrity is either barred from the public service altogether, or subjected to almost irresistible temptations after he gets in."


For, the critiques continue... what if the monarch is a nutbag - a manifest danger to society? Well... what of a regency, popular among the people, to guard them against cruelty and incompetence until the next heir is ready? And, I ask, how is this behavior avoided in the modern and liberal democracies? A democratist politician is elevated not because of birthright or ability but, on the contrary, because of his incompetence. His lack of knowledge. A politician cannot be knowledgeable of economics or he cannot win office. He cannot be morally stalwart or he cannot win office. He cannot be anything but a liar, a grafter, a lickspittle, a politician. Otherwise, he does not win office.

It is true that there is, throughout history, a wonderful tradition of amazing statesmen who were public-spirited, well educated, and morally stalwart. They did not meet the measure of the buffoons characterizing modern liberal democracies. Why not? Because these statesmen existed and thrived in relatively less democratic nations. It seems that, in reality, Gresham's Law guides the political winds today.

So... for those who would argue that certain monarchies exist alongside democratic institutions I must point out that, among these nations, the monarch serves to dilute and otherwise guard against the democratic tendencies of the nation. Even in America there exists a non-elected elite for the sole purpose of protecting and ensuring the liberty of the population. This, I believe, is the utilitarian reason for supporting a monarchy. Beyond mere continuity and identity of the culture and heritage of the nation.

What say you, NSG? Are there critiques of monarchy from a democratic perspective that I have missed? Have I been unconvincing?


Very well put. I am not an AnCap, but while not an AnMon I do prefer alot of monarchies to other forms of government. Maybe its the romantic in me but i am rather fond of monarchies. I do have a very primitivist strain in me and come from a low population rural area so alot of my ideas for the formation of a theoretical AnMon society would be more tailored to that than a vast modern nation of millions.

I would advocate for a meritocratic monarchy, the kind found in Pre-Christian Germanic culture, by which chiefs, lords, jarls, and kings are sometimes elected by means of a "Thing". People give credit to the Greeks for inventing democracy, but their democracy was wiped away by the Dark ages, while Germanic democracy, by way of the Thing, is the foundation for English common law. I would advocate each individual settlement have an elected leader (a king if thats what they want him called) who may or may not pass it on to his kin or a chosen successor. The only problem I see with hereditary rule is that this is the way that psychopaths like Caligula wind up in power. Not to say your normal democratic government isnt full of scum bags and genocidal nuts, but if the people dont have a method to remove the leader without force of arms then thats a pretty nasty situation.

You're not an anarchist you're a tribalist. And what's to prevent these all these settlements from being incorporated into an empire like has happened on every continent?
American Orthodox: one, holy, catholic, and apostolic church.
Jesus is Allah ن
Burkean conservative
Homophobic
Anti-feminist sexist
♂Copy and paste this in your sig if you passed biology and know men and women aren't the same.♀

User avatar
Distruzio
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 23841
Founded: Feb 28, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Distruzio » Sat Aug 24, 2013 12:55 am

European Socialist Republic wrote:Listen. Strange women lying in ponds, distributing swords, is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony! You can't expect to wield supreme power just 'cause some watery tart threw a sword at you! I mean, if I went 'round saying I was an emperor, just because some moistened bint had lobbed a scimitar at me, they'd put me away!


.... mmmhmmm.... what does this have to do with anything?
Eastern Orthodox Christian

Anti-Progressive
Conservative

Anti-Feminist
Right leaning Distributist

Anti-Equity
Western Chauvanist

Anti-Globalism
Nationalist

User avatar
The Parkus Empire
Post Czar
 
Posts: 43030
Founded: Sep 12, 2005
Ex-Nation

Postby The Parkus Empire » Sat Aug 24, 2013 12:57 am

Distruzio wrote:
European Socialist Republic wrote:Listen. Strange women lying in ponds, distributing swords, is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony! You can't expect to wield supreme power just 'cause some watery tart threw a sword at you! I mean, if I went 'round saying I was an emperor, just because some moistened bint had lobbed a scimitar at me, they'd put me away!


.... mmmhmmm.... what does this have to do with anything?

Being socially inept and thus trying to emulate the success of successful pop culture so you can be popular too
American Orthodox: one, holy, catholic, and apostolic church.
Jesus is Allah ن
Burkean conservative
Homophobic
Anti-feminist sexist
♂Copy and paste this in your sig if you passed biology and know men and women aren't the same.♀

User avatar
Distruzio
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 23841
Founded: Feb 28, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Distruzio » Sat Aug 24, 2013 12:59 am

The New Lowlands wrote:
Kaapstad wrote:Classic monarchy is vastly superior to modern "democracy", which is really just popularly elected aristocracy. There was vastly more freedom in every respect.

Source?


Common sense. Democracy, with the exception of direct democracy (which is practical in minute limited scales only) is not "self- gov't" as indirect democracy vests actual power in the hands of a few over the many. Thus the differences between oligarchy/aristocracy and democracy are gradual rather than fundamental and the democratist bleeting against the privilege of royalty in favor of the common man rings rather flaccid indeed.

Perhaps you should revisit the OP?

Distruzio wrote:Although democracy allows the people some influence over the government, they do not and cannot actually run it.
Last edited by Distruzio on Sat Aug 24, 2013 12:59 am, edited 2 times in total.
Eastern Orthodox Christian

Anti-Progressive
Conservative

Anti-Feminist
Right leaning Distributist

Anti-Equity
Western Chauvanist

Anti-Globalism
Nationalist

User avatar
Distruzio
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 23841
Founded: Feb 28, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Distruzio » Sat Aug 24, 2013 1:01 am

The Parkus Empire wrote:
Distruzio wrote:
.... mmmhmmm.... what does this have to do with anything?

Being socially inept and thus trying to emulate the success of successful pop culture so you can be popular too


Okay... I was confused about it before but now I'm completely at a loss about it. Pop culture?
Eastern Orthodox Christian

Anti-Progressive
Conservative

Anti-Feminist
Right leaning Distributist

Anti-Equity
Western Chauvanist

Anti-Globalism
Nationalist

User avatar
The Parkus Empire
Post Czar
 
Posts: 43030
Founded: Sep 12, 2005
Ex-Nation

Postby The Parkus Empire » Sat Aug 24, 2013 1:01 am

Distruzio wrote:
The Parkus Empire wrote:Being socially inept and thus trying to emulate the success of successful pop culture so you can be popular too


Okay... I was confused about it before but now I'm completely at a loss about it. Pop culture?

Monty Python is pop culture, particularly internet wise.
American Orthodox: one, holy, catholic, and apostolic church.
Jesus is Allah ن
Burkean conservative
Homophobic
Anti-feminist sexist
♂Copy and paste this in your sig if you passed biology and know men and women aren't the same.♀

User avatar
Distruzio
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 23841
Founded: Feb 28, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Distruzio » Sat Aug 24, 2013 1:02 am

The Parkus Empire wrote:
Distruzio wrote:
Okay... I was confused about it before but now I'm completely at a loss about it. Pop culture?

Monty Python is pop culture, particularly internet wise.



Oh. Them. Yeah... I've never seen more than a single skit. It was enough to convince me of it's uselessness. There is nothing humorous in ridiculousness.
Eastern Orthodox Christian

Anti-Progressive
Conservative

Anti-Feminist
Right leaning Distributist

Anti-Equity
Western Chauvanist

Anti-Globalism
Nationalist

User avatar
European Socialist Republic
Senator
 
Posts: 4844
Founded: Apr 09, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby European Socialist Republic » Sat Aug 24, 2013 1:02 am

Distruzio wrote:
The Parkus Empire wrote:Being socially inept and thus trying to emulate the success of successful pop culture so you can be popular too


Okay... I was confused about it before but now I'm completely at a loss about it. Pop culture?


Never watched Monty Python and the Holy Grail? If not, you should.
Economic Left/Right: -7
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.9
I am a far-left moderate social libertarian.
Left: 9.13
Libertarian: 2.62
Non-interventionalist: 7.34
Cultural liberal: 9.12
I am a Trotskyist.
Cosmopolitan: 71%
Secular: 80%
Visionary: 62%
Anarchistic: 43%
Communistic: 78%
Pacifist: 40%
Anthropocentric: 50%

Legalize Tyranny, Impeach the Twenty-second Amendment, Term Limits are Theft, Barack Obama 2016!
HOI4

User avatar
Distruzio
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 23841
Founded: Feb 28, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Distruzio » Sat Aug 24, 2013 1:04 am

European Socialist Republic wrote:
Distruzio wrote:
Okay... I was confused about it before but now I'm completely at a loss about it. Pop culture?


Never watched Monty Python and the Holy Grail? If not, you should.


If it's anything like their television show was... hell no. I'd rather watch a Scary Movie parody - which are fucking horrible.
Eastern Orthodox Christian

Anti-Progressive
Conservative

Anti-Feminist
Right leaning Distributist

Anti-Equity
Western Chauvanist

Anti-Globalism
Nationalist

User avatar
Seperates
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 14622
Founded: Sep 03, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby Seperates » Sat Aug 24, 2013 1:05 am

Distruzio wrote:
The Parkus Empire wrote:Being socially inept and thus trying to emulate the success of successful pop culture so you can be popular too


Okay... I was confused about it before but now I'm completely at a loss about it. Pop culture?

See... this is irony of the situation. You think you know what society values... but you don't. You really don't. Society values nothing of what you would likely consider to be substantial and worthy. We would lead Stephen Colbert in to the monarchy. Gladly.

Here's the thing. I value centralization. Why, you ask? Because it keeps all the assholes in the same place so I can keep an eye on them.
This Debate is simply an exercise in Rhetoric. Truth is a fickle being with no intentions of showing itself today.

Non fui, fui, non sum, non curo

"The most important fact about us: that we are greater than the institutions and cultures we build."--Roberto Mangabeira Unger

User avatar
European Socialist Republic
Senator
 
Posts: 4844
Founded: Apr 09, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby European Socialist Republic » Sat Aug 24, 2013 1:05 am

Distruzio wrote:
European Socialist Republic wrote:
Never watched Monty Python and the Holy Grail? If not, you should.


If it's anything like their television show was... hell no. I'd rather watch a Scary Movie parody - which are fucking horrible.


Well, tastes differ.
Economic Left/Right: -7
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -5.9
I am a far-left moderate social libertarian.
Left: 9.13
Libertarian: 2.62
Non-interventionalist: 7.34
Cultural liberal: 9.12
I am a Trotskyist.
Cosmopolitan: 71%
Secular: 80%
Visionary: 62%
Anarchistic: 43%
Communistic: 78%
Pacifist: 40%
Anthropocentric: 50%

Legalize Tyranny, Impeach the Twenty-second Amendment, Term Limits are Theft, Barack Obama 2016!
HOI4

User avatar
The Parkus Empire
Post Czar
 
Posts: 43030
Founded: Sep 12, 2005
Ex-Nation

Postby The Parkus Empire » Sat Aug 24, 2013 1:05 am

Distruzio wrote:
The Parkus Empire wrote:Monty Python is pop culture, particularly internet wise.



Oh. Them. Yeah... I've never seen more than a single skit. It was enough to convince me of it's uselessness. There is nothing humorous in ridiculousness.

Sure there is. I nearly snorted out my scotch when I first read your line about a monarch being a protector of the people.
American Orthodox: one, holy, catholic, and apostolic church.
Jesus is Allah ن
Burkean conservative
Homophobic
Anti-feminist sexist
♂Copy and paste this in your sig if you passed biology and know men and women aren't the same.♀

User avatar
Seperates
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 14622
Founded: Sep 03, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby Seperates » Sat Aug 24, 2013 1:06 am

Distruzio wrote:
The Parkus Empire wrote:Monty Python is pop culture, particularly internet wise.



Oh. Them. Yeah... I've never seen more than a single skit. It was enough to convince me of it's uselessness. There is nothing humorous in ridiculousness.

Or obviously their wit is above you...
Last edited by Seperates on Sat Aug 24, 2013 1:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
This Debate is simply an exercise in Rhetoric. Truth is a fickle being with no intentions of showing itself today.

Non fui, fui, non sum, non curo

"The most important fact about us: that we are greater than the institutions and cultures we build."--Roberto Mangabeira Unger

User avatar
Distruzio
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 23841
Founded: Feb 28, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Distruzio » Sat Aug 24, 2013 1:08 am

Seperates wrote:
Distruzio wrote:

Oh. Them. Yeah... I've never seen more than a single skit. It was enough to convince me of it's uselessness. There is nothing humorous in ridiculousness.

Or obviously their wit is above you...


If the excrement they present is considered wit then I, graciously, admit my inferiority.
Eastern Orthodox Christian

Anti-Progressive
Conservative

Anti-Feminist
Right leaning Distributist

Anti-Equity
Western Chauvanist

Anti-Globalism
Nationalist

User avatar
Seperates
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 14622
Founded: Sep 03, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby Seperates » Sat Aug 24, 2013 1:10 am

Distruzio wrote:
Seperates wrote:Or obviously their wit is above you...


If the excrement they present is considered wit then I, graciously, admit my inferiority.

Oh no, you are on your way to being there yourself, young one. Your OP is probably the funniest things I've read all week, and you were actually being serious and not doing a silly skit.

I'm beginning to sense that this one doesn't have a sense of humor. Shame, really it is.
This Debate is simply an exercise in Rhetoric. Truth is a fickle being with no intentions of showing itself today.

Non fui, fui, non sum, non curo

"The most important fact about us: that we are greater than the institutions and cultures we build."--Roberto Mangabeira Unger

User avatar
The Parkus Empire
Post Czar
 
Posts: 43030
Founded: Sep 12, 2005
Ex-Nation

Postby The Parkus Empire » Sat Aug 24, 2013 1:10 am

European Socialist Republic wrote:
Distruzio wrote:
Okay... I was confused about it before but now I'm completely at a loss about it. Pop culture?


Never watched Monty Python and the Holy Grail? If not, you should.

It's severely overrated. Their satire is alright, like Life of Brian, but the "randomlol" shit is only initially amusing for the sheer absurdity and wtf factor. Because it is so widely quoted by every neckbeard lacking an ounce of originality as some sort of dogmatic wit, it's older than the Wandering Jew.
American Orthodox: one, holy, catholic, and apostolic church.
Jesus is Allah ن
Burkean conservative
Homophobic
Anti-feminist sexist
♂Copy and paste this in your sig if you passed biology and know men and women aren't the same.♀

User avatar
Distruzio
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 23841
Founded: Feb 28, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Distruzio » Sat Aug 24, 2013 1:11 am

Seperates wrote:
Distruzio wrote:
Okay... I was confused about it before but now I'm completely at a loss about it. Pop culture?

See... this is irony of the situation. You think you know what society values... but you don't. You really don't. Society values nothing of what you would likely consider to be substantial and worthy. We would lead Stephen Colbert in to the monarchy. Gladly.

Here's the thing. I value centralization. Why, you ask? Because it keeps all the assholes in the same place so I can keep an eye on them.


... And here is an example of actual irony; that I present an opinion piece along with substantiating rhetoric and you take that to mean I speak on behalf of society and choose to chastise me for presuming so (the implication being that a single individual could not knowingly speak for society) while you yourself presume to speak for society in your chastising comment.
Eastern Orthodox Christian

Anti-Progressive
Conservative

Anti-Feminist
Right leaning Distributist

Anti-Equity
Western Chauvanist

Anti-Globalism
Nationalist

User avatar
The Parkus Empire
Post Czar
 
Posts: 43030
Founded: Sep 12, 2005
Ex-Nation

Postby The Parkus Empire » Sat Aug 24, 2013 1:12 am

The Parkus Empire wrote:
European Socialist Republic wrote:
Never watched Monty Python and the Holy Grail? If not, you should.

It's severely overrated. Their satire is alright, like Life of Brian, but the "randomlol" shit is only initially amusing for the sheer absurdity and wtf factor. Because it is so widely quoted by every neckbeard lacking an ounce of originality as some sort of dogmatic wit, it's older than the Wandering Jew.

Meaning of Life is also pretty good for satire. And all of their music is excellent, of course
American Orthodox: one, holy, catholic, and apostolic church.
Jesus is Allah ن
Burkean conservative
Homophobic
Anti-feminist sexist
♂Copy and paste this in your sig if you passed biology and know men and women aren't the same.♀

User avatar
Seperates
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 14622
Founded: Sep 03, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby Seperates » Sat Aug 24, 2013 1:12 am

The Parkus Empire wrote:
European Socialist Republic wrote:
Never watched Monty Python and the Holy Grail? If not, you should.

It's severely overrated. Their satire is alright, like Life of Brian, but the "randomlol" shit is only initially amusing for the sheer absurdity and wtf factor. Because it is so widely quoted by every neckbeard lacking an ounce of originality as some sort of dogmatic wit, it's older than the Wandering Jew.

Eh... I have a serious soft spot for The Meaning of Life. Honestly the Mitchell and Webb shows are much wittier than most anything the Python's produced.
This Debate is simply an exercise in Rhetoric. Truth is a fickle being with no intentions of showing itself today.

Non fui, fui, non sum, non curo

"The most important fact about us: that we are greater than the institutions and cultures we build."--Roberto Mangabeira Unger

User avatar
Distruzio
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 23841
Founded: Feb 28, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Distruzio » Sat Aug 24, 2013 1:12 am

Seperates wrote:
Distruzio wrote:
If the excrement they present is considered wit then I, graciously, admit my inferiority.

Oh no, you are on your way to being there yourself, young one. Your OP is probably the funniest things I've read all week, and you were actually being serious and not doing a silly skit.

I'm beginning to sense that this one doesn't have a sense of humor. Shame, really it is.


Finding humor in random nonsense is a skill set I lack, admittedly. I prefer related material.
Eastern Orthodox Christian

Anti-Progressive
Conservative

Anti-Feminist
Right leaning Distributist

Anti-Equity
Western Chauvanist

Anti-Globalism
Nationalist

User avatar
The Parkus Empire
Post Czar
 
Posts: 43030
Founded: Sep 12, 2005
Ex-Nation

Postby The Parkus Empire » Sat Aug 24, 2013 1:14 am

Seperates wrote:
The Parkus Empire wrote:It's severely overrated. Their satire is alright, like Life of Brian, but the "randomlol" shit is only initially amusing for the sheer absurdity and wtf factor. Because it is so widely quoted by every neckbeard lacking an ounce of originality as some sort of dogmatic wit, it's older than the Wandering Jew.

Eh... I have a serious soft spot for The Meaning of Life. Honestly the Mitchell and Webb shows are much wittier than most anything the Python's produced.

Oh, yes, they're very good
American Orthodox: one, holy, catholic, and apostolic church.
Jesus is Allah ن
Burkean conservative
Homophobic
Anti-feminist sexist
♂Copy and paste this in your sig if you passed biology and know men and women aren't the same.♀

User avatar
Seperates
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 14622
Founded: Sep 03, 2009
Ex-Nation

Postby Seperates » Sat Aug 24, 2013 1:15 am

Distruzio wrote:
Seperates wrote:See... this is irony of the situation. You think you know what society values... but you don't. You really don't. Society values nothing of what you would likely consider to be substantial and worthy. We would lead Stephen Colbert in to the monarchy. Gladly.

Here's the thing. I value centralization. Why, you ask? Because it keeps all the assholes in the same place so I can keep an eye on them.


... And here is an example of actual irony; that I present an opinion piece along with substantiating rhetoric and you take that to mean I speak on behalf of society and choose to chastise me for presuming so (the implication being that a single individual could not knowingly speak for society) while you yourself presume to speak for society in your chastising comment.

I can speak better for what society is having more or less chosen a career path to do so. Anthropology, brother, it's a thing. I follow the 'pop culture' trends... or the cults of personality that would likely be in charge if this little idea of yours were to be implemented... And it scares the crap outta me.
This Debate is simply an exercise in Rhetoric. Truth is a fickle being with no intentions of showing itself today.

Non fui, fui, non sum, non curo

"The most important fact about us: that we are greater than the institutions and cultures we build."--Roberto Mangabeira Unger

User avatar
The Parkus Empire
Post Czar
 
Posts: 43030
Founded: Sep 12, 2005
Ex-Nation

Postby The Parkus Empire » Sat Aug 24, 2013 1:16 am

Distruzio wrote:
Seperates wrote:Oh no, you are on your way to being there yourself, young one. Your OP is probably the funniest things I've read all week, and you were actually being serious and not doing a silly skit.

I'm beginning to sense that this one doesn't have a sense of humor. Shame, really it is.


Finding humor in random nonsense is a skill set I lack, admittedly. I prefer related material.

Oh, not all of it is purely random

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUspLVStPbk
Last edited by The Parkus Empire on Sat Aug 24, 2013 1:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
American Orthodox: one, holy, catholic, and apostolic church.
Jesus is Allah ن
Burkean conservative
Homophobic
Anti-feminist sexist
♂Copy and paste this in your sig if you passed biology and know men and women aren't the same.♀

PreviousNext

Advertisement

Remove ads

Return to General

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bahrimontagn, Eternal Algerstonia, Floofybit, Greater Cesnica, Ifreann, La Cocina del Bodhi, Necroghastia, Neu California, Novaya Equestria, Ors Might, Port Caverton, Shrillland, Sorcery, Sovereign Island of Pimland, Tarsonis, The Crimson Isles, The Jamesian Republic, The Pirateariat, Unitarian Universalism, Washington Resistance Army, Western Theram, Xenti, Zurkerx

Advertisement

Remove ads