Objections to monarchy

[Shnercropolis]

any reason why we should subscribe to the theory of evolution?

Scientific method. But you shouldn't have to if you don't want to.

Any reason why I should subscribe to the scientific method?

EDIT: please don't answer the question, this could go on and on fruitlessly.

[Blasveck]

So leave.

If you don't like the shitty neighborhood you live in, and you have the resources to move, move.

What does neighborhoods have to do with this? I am getting a really hostile tone here.

I mean if you don't like the social contract and the terms within said contract, you can freely move and absolve yourself of said contract.

I didn't mean to sound hostile.

[Vazdania]

What does neighborhoods have to do with this? I am getting a really hostile tone here.

I mean if you don't like the social contract and the terms within said contract, you can freely move and absolve yourself of said contract.

I didn't mean to sound hostile.

again, how can you free yourself of an all consuming 'social contract?'

[The Parkus Empire]

I mean if you don't like the social contract and the terms within said contract, you can freely move and absolve yourself of said contract.

I didn't mean to sound hostile.

again, how can you free yourself of an all consuming 'social contract?'

Why should you be able to, exactly?

[Vazdania]

again, how can you free yourself of an all consuming 'social contract?'

Why should you be able to, exactly?

Because the will theory of contract says that I shouldn't be forced to enter a contract if I do not agree with it.

[The Nuclear Fist]

again, how can you free yourself of an all consuming 'social contract?'

You could kill yourself, for one. Move out to a part of the world where there is little authority, likely somewhere in the wilderness.

If the world reaches a point where a one world government is likely, it isn't going to be prevented because a few people are scared of change.

[Seleucas]

To me, it is the most thoroughly moronic political theory, absolutely bereft of any redeeming value. There are even parts of Marxism that I agree with/find interesting, but the idea of the state being some kind of monist embodiment of the people to which everyone implicitly consents (regardless of their explicit actions) is so clearly full of holes that I don't understand why anyone would use it to justify any government.

If one had to justify government, I think the most logical argument would have to be that the state has the power, and thus if you do not want to be harmed you must obey its decisions. I would not do so, but one could argue that this would be beneficial to those who are made to obey without having to make up nonsense about people secretly consenting to their treatment or the government being the interest of everyone, as opposed to its own specific interest.

Indeed. But I think government is justified on the fact that it can provide minimum services instead of being the device of the masses to assert their will. The idea that we "consent" to our citizenship (upon birth!) is completely absurd, and if government intervention is required for the first few years of life then it should not require me paying it back.

Neither I believe is electing a whole bunch of "representatives" (yeah right) to rule the nation in an oligarchy like power structure, I'd rather have highly regulated direct democracy, or as this thread suggests, perhaps a monarch that exists to only be a figurehead with meager power.

"Individual rights are not subject to a public vote; a majority has no right to vote away the rights of a minority; the political function of rights is precisely to protect minorities from oppression by majorities (and the smallest minority on earth is the individual)."

-Ayn Rand

Well put. I can't see why people cannot argue on the basis of pragmatism rather than trying to use some tortured idea of implicit consent in order to justify government. (Not just for minarchism, but for all of the varieties of statism.) It makes more sense to argue for a form of government based upon what one sees as desirable, as opposed to being a representation of the 'consent of the governed' when most often a substantial part of the population will dissent but nevertheless be made to obey.

Admittedly, I think rights and morality are a subjective matter, so I cannot (for instance) say that the government has no right to take away property. But from my point of view, it is more desirable and more consistent for people not to trespass on their person or belongings unless they are willing to be treated in the same way.

[Vazdania]

again, how can you free yourself of an all consuming 'social contract?'

You could kill yourself, for one. Move out to a part of the world where there is little authority, likely somewhere in the wilderness.

If the world reaches a point where a one world government is likely, it isn't going to be prevented because a few people are scared of change.

I should not have to remove myself in the first place.

[The Parkus Empire]

Why should you be able to, exactly?

Because the will theory of contract says that I shouldn't be forced to enter a contract if I do not agree with it.

Why should this right be respected?

[Tlaceceyaya]

You could kill yourself, for one. Move out to a part of the world where there is little authority, likely somewhere in the wilderness.

If the world reaches a point where a one world government is likely, it isn't going to be prevented because a few people are scared of change.

I should not have to remove myself in the first place.

Why not? You're living in a country's land.

[The Nuclear Fist]

I should not have to remove myself in the first place.

Sorry dear, you're not special. You don't get that option. You don't get to enjoy all the benefits of a society and government without proverbially paying for it. If the world forms a single government, it shouldn't have to be nor will it be stopped by a single person.

If someone doesn't want to participate in the group then they're free to right fuck off somewhere else. And if there isn't anywhere to go, they can either seclude themselves off or end it all.

[Geilinor]

Why should you be able to, exactly?

Because the will theory of contract says that I shouldn't be forced to enter a contract if I do not agree with it.

Move to a place free of governmental control. No such place? Find a bunch of anarchists and fight a revolution or something.

[Vazdania]

I should not have to remove myself in the first place.

Why not? You're living in a country's land.

That I as a person outside of that 'country' purchased.

[Vazdania]

Because the will theory of contract says that I shouldn't be forced to enter a contract if I do not agree with it.

Move to a place free of governmental control. No such place? Find a bunch of anarchists and fight a revolution or something.

killing is bad.

[The Parkus Empire]

Because the will theory of contract says that I shouldn't be forced to enter a contract if I do not agree with it.

Move to a place free of governmental control. No such place? Find a bunch of anarchists and fight a revolution or something.

Somalia.

[Minarchist States]

What does neighborhoods have to do with this? I am getting a really hostile tone here.

I mean if you don't like the social contract and the terms within said contract, you can freely move and absolve yourself of said contract.

I didn't mean to sound hostile.

Meh, internet makes it hard to tell tone. I generally associate swear words with something of a demand as being generally hostile, but I understand some people are just blunt.

Anyway, if it were so easy! I like the fact that I can move to a neighborhood that suits me, yet unfortunately the government doesn't work the same way. One cannot simply move to Somalia if he wants freedom, no, freedom is intertwined with wealth and capitalism (something that Somalia's lacking). Neither can I live from birth to death without being violated by the government, whether that be through taxation, coercion, or conscription. Plus, while many private businesses don't force any morals (nevermind Scientology) down your throat, the Government does so relentlessly. Is this in any shape or form justified? Cannot we make our own morals with respect to the Golden Rule? Can't we live as traders do, exchanging services for the mutual benefit for us both?

[The Nuclear Fist]

Move to a place free of governmental control. No such place? Find a bunch of anarchists and fight a revolution or something.

killing is bad.

Then stop whining. Either work to achieve your goals or shut up.

[Geilinor]

You could kill yourself, for one. Move out to a part of the world where there is little authority, likely somewhere in the wilderness.

If the world reaches a point where a one world government is likely, it isn't going to be prevented because a few people are scared of change.

I should not have to remove myself in the first place.

You don't have the right to force the rest of us to live in your anarcho-capitalist wonderland. If you don't want to use government services, go live off the grid in the wilderness or something. You're free to.

[Vazdania]

Move to a place free of governmental control. No such place? Find a bunch of anarchists and fight a revolution or something.

Somalia.

That isn't a bad idea actually...

[The Parkus Empire]

killing is bad.

Then stop whining. Either work to achieve your goals or shut up.

The wealthy, having a lot more to lose, are generally far less inclined toward revolution.

[The Nuclear Fist]

That isn't a bad idea actually...

Yes, go ahead and move to Somalia.

[Geilinor]

Somalia.

That isn't a bad idea actually...

You'll come running straight back, I'm sure of it.

[Vazdania]

I should not have to remove myself in the first place.

You don't have the right to force the rest of us to live in your anarcho-capitalist wonderland. If you don't want to use government services, go live of the grid. You're free to.

*already lives nearly off the grid and is still forced to pay large amounts of taxes*

[The Nuclear Fist]

freedom is intertwined with wealth and capitalism

Ha ha, no.

[Geilinor]

That isn't a bad idea actually...

Yes, go ahead and move to Somalia.

I don't think he gets how screwed up Somalia is.