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Former Anglican Leader To 'Persecuted' Christians: Grow Up

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Yumyumsuppertime
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Former Anglican Leader To 'Persecuted' Christians: Grow Up

Postby Yumyumsuppertime » Thu Aug 15, 2013 11:11 pm

Christians in Britain and the US who claim that they are persecuted should "grow up" and not exaggerate what amounts to feeling "mildly uncomfortable", according to Rowan Williams, who last year stepped down as archbishop of Canterbury after an often turbulent decade.

"When you've had any contact with real persecuted minorities you learn to use the word very chastely," he said. "Persecution is not being made to feel mildly uncomfortable. 'For goodness sake, grow up,' I want to say."


He also goes on to discuss both his legacy regarding the Church and the LGBT population (uncertainty), and the concept of spirituality in modern life, but that first comment is what I want to go into.

It's refreshing to see a religious leader who sees the difference between a loss of some minor privilege and actual persecution. Nowhere in the West are Christians being seriously persecuted. However, we still see people making serious arguments that the increasing diversity of beliefs in western society, and the subsequent lessening of Christianity's once-dominant position in the public sphere, somehow constitutes actual persecution. The fact is that there really is no such thing as institutional prejudice against or suppression of Christians or Christian beliefs in the west, and indeed, Christians still manage to enjoy a central part in British culture, American culture, and every nation in Europe and points west.
Last edited by Yumyumsuppertime on Thu Aug 15, 2013 11:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Regnum Dominae
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Postby Regnum Dominae » Thu Aug 15, 2013 11:14 pm

Tutu and now this guy. I'm respecting the Anglican Church more and more.
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Postby Yumyumsuppertime » Thu Aug 15, 2013 11:14 pm

Regnum Dominae wrote:Tutu and now this guy. I'm respecting the Anglican Church more and more.


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Saint Jade IV
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Postby Saint Jade IV » Thu Aug 15, 2013 11:16 pm

Some people never learned to share their toys. These are the people who claim "persecution" because other people get to play in the same sandbox.
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Kennedius
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Postby Kennedius » Thu Aug 15, 2013 11:27 pm

I am Episcopal and, while I do not believe I am being 'persecuted,' I dislike the fact how our Church is becoming so liberal.

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Blasveck
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Postby Blasveck » Thu Aug 15, 2013 11:30 pm

And that's another point to the Anglican Church.

Keep 'em coming boys, I'm liking the Anglicans more and more.
Last edited by Blasveck on Thu Aug 15, 2013 11:32 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Ainin
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Postby Ainin » Thu Aug 15, 2013 11:32 pm

It's about time someone said that.
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Saint Jade IV
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Postby Saint Jade IV » Thu Aug 15, 2013 11:34 pm

Kennedius wrote:I am Episcopal and, while I do not believe I am being 'persecuted,' I dislike the fact how our Church is becoming so liberal.


Good on you, I guess?

I mean, what was the point of this post?
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Yumyumsuppertime
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Postby Yumyumsuppertime » Thu Aug 15, 2013 11:35 pm

Kennedius wrote:I am Episcopal and, while I do not believe I am being 'persecuted,' I dislike the fact how our Church is becoming so liberal.


How so? What in particular bothers you?

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Nationalist State of Knox
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Postby Nationalist State of Knox » Thu Aug 15, 2013 11:38 pm

About time, frankly.
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Postby Wolfmanne » Thu Aug 15, 2013 11:44 pm

Glad the Catholic Church is taking the same direction.
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Postby Blasveck » Thu Aug 15, 2013 11:46 pm

Wolfmanne wrote:Glad the Catholic Church is taking the same direction.


Since when?

Unless I'm mistaken, they're nowhere near the Anglican Church in terms of how they've treated the LGBT community.
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Postby Wolfmanne » Thu Aug 15, 2013 11:48 pm

Blasveck wrote:
Wolfmanne wrote:Glad the Catholic Church is taking the same direction.


Since when?

Unless I'm mistaken, they're nowhere near the Anglican Church in terms of how they've treated the LGBT community.

Since the Second Vatican Council.
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The ivain isles
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Postby The ivain isles » Thu Aug 15, 2013 11:52 pm

Blasveck wrote:
Wolfmanne wrote:Glad the Catholic Church is taking the same direction.


Since when?

Unless I'm mistaken, they're nowhere near the Anglican Church in terms of how they've treated the LGBT community.


The pope spoke out in support of the LGBT community a few weeks ago, though, actions do speak louder than words and all that.
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Kennedius
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Postby Kennedius » Thu Aug 15, 2013 11:53 pm

Yumyumsuppertime wrote:
Kennedius wrote:I am Episcopal and, while I do not believe I am being 'persecuted,' I dislike the fact how our Church is becoming so liberal.


How so? What in particular bothers you?


I do not wish to come off as homophobic, as that would not be correct to describe me, but the Church has become quite lax about homosexual marriages, which I do not agree with. Also with abortion, it has become more lax and "accepted," if that is the right term. I was brought up into this religion as a child, but now that I've formed my own beliefs, they don't necessarily coincide with the Church's beliefs, which is leading me to wish to convert to another denomination within the Protestant sect.
Last edited by Kennedius on Fri Aug 16, 2013 12:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Blasveck
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Postby Blasveck » Thu Aug 15, 2013 11:56 pm

The ivain isles wrote:
Blasveck wrote:
Since when?

Unless I'm mistaken, they're nowhere near the Anglican Church in terms of how they've treated the LGBT community.


The pope spoke out in support of the LGBT community a few weeks ago, though, actions do speak louder than words and all that.


All the Pope basically said was "I'm not one to judge gay people. God is."

Which is the catholic stance on a lot of things.
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Delmonte
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Postby Delmonte » Thu Aug 15, 2013 11:57 pm

Anglicanism really isn't a religion. It's well-preserved museums.
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Postby Wolfmanne » Thu Aug 15, 2013 11:57 pm

Blasveck wrote:
The ivain isles wrote:
The pope spoke out in support of the LGBT community a few weeks ago, though, actions do speak louder than words and all that.


All the Pope basically said was "I'm not one to judge gay people. God is."

Which is the catholic stance on a lot of things.

Get over the fact we're stuck with more bigoted bighead Traditionalist Catholics. If I recall, the Church of England, the main Anglican sect, voted against women ordination.
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Postby Liriena » Thu Aug 15, 2013 11:58 pm

Yumyumsuppertime wrote:
Regnum Dominae wrote:Tutu and now this guy. I'm respecting the Anglican Church more and more.


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The ivain isles
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Postby The ivain isles » Thu Aug 15, 2013 11:59 pm

Blasveck wrote:
The ivain isles wrote:
The pope spoke out in support of the LGBT community a few weeks ago, though, actions do speak louder than words and all that.


All the Pope basically said was "I'm not one to judge gay people. God is."

Which is the catholic stance on a lot of things.


He also said they shouldn't be marginalised, ie, more accepted by the church, and that's not the catholic stance on a lot of things, it's the stance on everything, that god will render judgement on us all in the end.
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Blasveck
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Postby Blasveck » Fri Aug 16, 2013 12:00 am

Wolfmanne wrote:
Blasveck wrote:
All the Pope basically said was "I'm not one to judge gay people. God is."

Which is the catholic stance on a lot of things.

Get over the fact we're stuck with more bigoted bighead Traditionalist Catholics. If I recall, the Church of England, the main Anglican sect, voted against women ordination.


The Anglican Church has its issues.

So does the Catholic Church.

Something I hope both Churches can get around to fixing.
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Tlik
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Postby Tlik » Fri Aug 16, 2013 12:03 am

Blasveck wrote:
Wolfmanne wrote:Glad the Catholic Church is taking the same direction.


Since when?

Unless I'm mistaken, they're nowhere near the Anglican Church in terms of how they've treated the LGBT community.

The doctrine of the RCC is largely the same as the doctrine of most aspects of the Anglican Communion with regards to homosexuality, with the biggest difference being whether gay people can serve in the ministry. While I of course recognise that that's a significant position, it by no means puts the RCC 'nowhere near' the Anglicans.

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Postby Hot Skitty on Wailord Action » Fri Aug 16, 2013 12:06 am

Kennedius wrote:
Yumyumsuppertime wrote:
How so? What in particular bothers you?


-eye saving snip-

Please don't start with the garish posting. We had enough of that a while ago. /sidebar

But, I'm glad that the former Archbishop has the right idea. Sharing is caring, and some of these "persecuted" Christians clearly missed that lesson.
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The ivain isles
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Postby The ivain isles » Fri Aug 16, 2013 12:07 am

Tlik wrote:
Blasveck wrote:
Since when?

Unless I'm mistaken, they're nowhere near the Anglican Church in terms of how they've treated the LGBT community.

The doctrine of the RCC is largely the same as the doctrine of most aspects of the Anglican Communion with regards to homosexuality, with the biggest difference being whether gay people can serve in the ministry. While I of course recognise that that's a significant position, it by no means puts the RCC 'nowhere near' the Anglicans.


A lot of statistics show that anywhere from 1:2 to 9:10 of the clergy are gay, the church, methinks, has a dont ask, don't tell policy here.
Last edited by The ivain isles on Fri Aug 16, 2013 12:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Nationalist State of Knox
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Postby Nationalist State of Knox » Fri Aug 16, 2013 12:09 am

Kennedius wrote:I do not wish to come off as homophobic, as that would not be correct to describe me,

We'll see.

Kennedius wrote: but the Church has become quite lax about homosexual marriages, which I do not agree with.

So you're homophobic then? Glad to know.
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