Has The U.S Government Overstepped its Boundries on Anti-Gun

[Death Metal]

That deosnt give us the right to force militias to cease and desist.

Nobody is saying they have to disband. Just that they don't need to be recognized as a militia, and being called a militia doesn't mean they should have unregulated access to military-grade hardware.

[Imperializt Russia]

Owning those requires extensive amount of paperwork, a background check, registration, a $200 fee, and months of waiting for BATF approval. If someone is willing to pass all these hoops just to own those weapons then why should they be barred from owning them?

Because they won't, or can't, keep and use them safely.

Fully automatic firearms have accounted for two fatalities since the 1934 NFA.
I do not believe any fatalities have resulted from the ownership of NFA-regulated destructive devices but if you have a source on the matter that tells you otherwise, feel free to share it.

[Death Metal]

Owning those requires extensive amount of paperwork, a background check, registration, a $200 fee, and months of waiting for BATF approval. If someone is willing to pass all these hoops just to own those weapons then why should they be barred from owning them?

Because they won't, or can't, keep and use them safely.

Then the obvious solution is simple: Safety and proficiency tests. We already have them in most states that shall-issue CCPs, so expanding that further shouldn't be too unreasonable.

[Chernoslavia]

That deosnt give us the right to force militias to cease and desist.

Nobody is saying they have to disband. Just that they don't need to be recognized as a militia, and being called a militia doesn't mean they should have unregulated access to military-grade hardware.

Nobody should have unregulated access to any firearms be it military or civilian grade. However, if they call themselves a civilian militia and they do militia-like stuff then they are militia regardless of what a piece of paper or the public says.

[Mistelemr]

You retain the right to bear arms. What you to not retain is the right to bear arms without restriction.

If they restrict it then you have no right to bear certain arms.

I demand my right to develop a suitcase nuke, as well as potentially system crashing malware!

I just won't feel safe until I know I can destroy everything within a 5 mile radius at the touch of a button!

[Chernoslavia]

Because they won't, or can't, keep and use them safely.

Fully automatic firearms have accounted for two fatalities since the 1934 NFA.
I do not believe any fatalities have resulted from the ownership of NFA-regulated destructive devices but if you have a source on the matter that tells you otherwise, feel free to share it.

Two legally owned full autos, as for full autos in general the numbers are a few thousands from 1934 onwards.

[Death Metal]

Nobody is saying they have to disband. Just that they don't need to be recognized as a militia, and being called a militia doesn't mean they should have unregulated access to military-grade hardware.

Nobody should have unregulated access to any firearms be it military or civilian grade.

Civilian grade is fine so long as properly registered and the user is safe and proficient.

However, if they call themselves a civilian militia and they do militia-like stuff then they are militia regardless of what a piece of paper or the public says.

I call myself a vampire. Therefore, I am a vampire.

I AM THE TERROR THAT FLAPS IN THE NIGHT!

[Occupied Deutschland]

If they restrict it then you have no right to bear certain arms.

I demand my right to develop a suitcase nuke, as well as potentially system crashing malware!

I just won't feel safe until I know I can destroy everything within a 5 mile radius at the touch of a button!

Growing tired of responding to this myself, I shall refer you to another.

[Chernoslavia]

Nobody should have unregulated access to any firearms be it military or civilian grade.

Civilian grade is fine so long as properly registered and the user is safe and proficient.

However, if they call themselves a civilian militia and they do militia-like stuff then they are militia regardless of what a piece of paper or the public says.

I call myself a vampire. Therefore, I am a vampire.

I AM THE TERROR THAT FLAPS IN THE NIGHT!

1. Registration leads to confiscation, so I wont support registration. And civilians should be allowed to own whatever weapons they want as long as they arent psychopaths of course.

2. By law they might not be militia, but in reality they are.

[Death Metal]

Civilian grade is fine so long as properly registered and the user is safe and proficient.



I call myself a vampire. Therefore, I am a vampire.

I AM THE TERROR THAT FLAPS IN THE NIGHT!

1. Registration leads to confiscation,

Slippery slope fallacy.

Also: 2. Then I am a vampire.

[Chernoslavia]

1. Registration leads to confiscation,

Slippery slope fallacy.

Also: 2. Then I am a vampire.

1. Is that so? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_ ... n_firearms

2. .... Okay, moving along.

[Grave_n_idle]

we should put a ban on the weapon that causes the most gun crime Handguns then we can ban fully automatic rifles

Handguns provide the most legitimate self-defence weapon.
Fully automatic rifles are already heavily restricted and have been reportedly used in two homicides since the 1934 NFA, one of which not even being a rifle (and was also being used by an on-duty cop).

That seems unlikely. I just did a search of posts, and the first time I said 'league' in this thread was a reference to Calaveras' post, and the other times I said it I was either responding to him using it or you using it.

The post which I originally quoted to make that "league" statement featured you using the term "league".
I didn't say you brought it up, but you used it.

It's in the exact same league. It's a handheld, self-loading firearm.

Well, I guess they are in different leagues, since nine out of ten people prefer to kill someone with a handgun than a rifle.

So you're arguing with me about the use of the word, after I told the other guy that it wasn't an argument - and that's why you started using it?

You started using it because I said it wasn't an argument.

[Grave_n_idle]

1. Registration leads to confiscation, so I wont support registration.

Just like registering your car means it got confiscated. Right? Right?

[Death Metal]

Slippery slope fallacy.

Also: 2. Then I am a vampire.

1. Is that so? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_ ... n_firearms

Irrelevant, as that was a constitutionally dubious measure that was stopped by the federal government, and is now illegal: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disaster_R ... ct_of_2006

[Death Metal]

1. Registration leads to confiscation, so I wont support registration.

Just like registering your car means it got confiscated. Right? Right?

I registered my copy of Super Mario World in 1992. When is it getting confiscated?

[Grave_n_idle]

Just like registering your car means it got confiscated. Right? Right?

I registered my copy of Super Mario World in 1992. When is it getting confiscated?

Keep on hoping, buddy. You're stuck with that shit.

*nods*

[Saiwania]

Because they won't, or can't, keep and use them safely.

Firearms collectors aren't going to use those weapons very often if at all. Do you have any idea how much of a hassle and expense it is to acquire and use an NFA firearm? You can blow through $1,000+ worth of ammunition in one minute. Far more trouble than it is worth for most people, and your entire investment in time and money will be wasted if you do something to have your class III weapons privileges revoked.

Events such as the Knob Creek machinegun shoot wouldn't be possible without legal civilian owners of machineguns. Just what do you have against lawful collectors of automatic weapons when the current NFA process has been very effective so far?

[Death Metal]

I registered my copy of Super Mario World in 1992. When is it getting confiscated?

Keep on hoping, buddy. You're stuck with that shit.

*nods*

Whaaat. Super Mario World was a classic. Arguably the best Mario game ever.

[Chernoslavia]

1. Is that so? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_ ... n_firearms

Irrelevant, as that was a constitutionally dubious measure that was stopped by the federal government, and is now illegal: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disaster_R ... ct_of_2006

It was NEVER legal, that clearly violated the 2nd Amendment. Thats private property that they took away by force there was nothing just and legal about what they did. If the Constitution didnt prevent them from taking away guns, then neither would local laws.

[Grave_n_idle]

Keep on hoping, buddy. You're stuck with that shit.

*nods*

Whaaat. Super Mario World was a classic. Arguably the best Mario game ever.

That's kind of like saying syphilis is the best STD ever.

[Death Metal]

Irrelevant, as that was a constitutionally dubious measure that was stopped by the federal government, and is now illegal: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disaster_R ... ct_of_2006

It was NEVER legal, that clearly violated the 2nd Amendment. Thats private property that they took away by force there was nothing just and legal about what they did. If the Constitution didnt prevent them from taking away guns, then neither would local laws.

Except, you know, the federal order to stop. And the current federal law that prevents confiscation in times of crisis.

Besides, you don't need gun registration to have gun confiscation, so that's another hole in your slippery slope fallacy.

[Grave_n_idle]

It was NEVER legal, that clearly violated the 2nd Amendment. Thats private property that they took away by force there was nothing just and legal about what they did. If the Constitution didnt prevent them from taking away guns, then neither would local laws.

Except, you know, the federal order to stop. And the current federal law that prevents confiscation in times of crisis.

Besides, you don't need gun registration to have gun confiscation, so that's another hole in your slippery slope fallacy.

All right, but apart from the sanitation, medicine, education, wine, public order, irrigation, roads, the fresh water system and public health, what have the Romans ever done for us?

[Death Metal]

Whaaat. Super Mario World was a classic. Arguably the best Mario game ever.

That's kind of like saying syphilis is the best STD ever.

Nah man, the 2D Mario games were legitimately good. It wasn't until after Super Mario 64 that they became uninspired.

Well, the platformers that is. Paper Mario is also good if not simplistic.

[Chernoslavia]

It was NEVER legal, that clearly violated the 2nd Amendment. Thats private property that they took away by force there was nothing just and legal about what they did. If the Constitution didnt prevent them from taking away guns, then neither would local laws.

Except, you know, the federal order to stop. And the current federal law that prevents confiscation in times of crisis.

Besides, you don't need gun registration to have gun confiscation, so that's another hole in your slippery slope fallacy.

1. Federal or not, it was never legal or justified. Just because the bill of rights isnt federal doesnt give anybody the right to violate it.

2. Then its a good thing nobody knows where I can hide em.

[Death Metal]

Except, you know, the federal order to stop. And the current federal law that prevents confiscation in times of crisis.

Besides, you don't need gun registration to have gun confiscation, so that's another hole in your slippery slope fallacy.

1. Federal or not, it was never legal or justified. Just because the bill of rights isnt federal doesnt give anybody the right to violate it.

2. Then its a good thing nobody knows where I can hide em.

1. The bill of rights IS federal....

2. Famous last words.