A World Without Prices or Profit

[Delmonte]

Now you've clearly put a lot of thought into this, which says a lot because your idea is incredibly bad.

This is strangely logical and nonsensical at the same time.

#Delmontewashere

[Xerographica]

If you don't work...then it's doubtful you'll receive much positive feedback (money). If you don't have much positive feedback (money) then you won't have much influence over how society's limited resources are used.

...and what if you don't care? I'd love to be a burden on society, you know.

How are you going to be a burden on society? Like I said, each organization will have the last word on who they give their products/goods to. I know that I wouldn't give my positive feedback (money) to an organization that gives products/goods to people who don't really need them.

But if you demonstrate genuine need, then I doubt anybody would really begrudge you basic necessities.

[Minarchist States]

...and what if you don't care? I'd love to be a burden on society, you know.

How are you going to be a burden on society? Like I said, each organization will have the last word on who they give their products/goods to. I know that I wouldn't give my positive feedback (money) to an organization that gives products/goods to people who don't really need them.

But if you demonstrate genuine need, then I doubt anybody would really begrudge you basic necessities.

Even if it costs other people? Where does the positive feedback come from? Or does the government supply the stores with their goods???

[Brissia]

...and what if you don't care? I'd love to be a burden on society, you know.

How are you going to be a burden on society? Like I said, each organization will have the last word on who they give their products/goods to. I know that I wouldn't give my positive feedback (money) to an organization that gives products/goods to people who don't really need them.

But if you demonstrate genuine need, then I doubt anybody would really begrudge you basic necessities.

This idea sadly rely's on a nonexistent concept: goodwill.

[Trollgaard]

This is strangely logical and nonsensical at the same time.

#Delmontewashere

What the hell is using the pound sign and then using no spaces in a short phrase from, and why is this becoming common?

[Brissia]

#Delmontewashere

What the hell is using the pound sign and then using no spaces in a short phrase from, and why is this becoming common?

I presume Twitter, to answer your first question.

[Minarchist States]

#Delmontewashere

What the hell is using the pound sign and then using no spaces in a short phrase from, and why is this becoming common?

#itsfromtwitter

# = hashtag

[Geilinor]

You want the economy to operate on positive feedback? I'm not quite sure how that would work.

[Vazdania]

Are prices or profit really necessary? For fun let's try and imagine a world without either.

If you wanted bread, you could go to your local bakery and select the quantity of bread that matched your preferences. You wouldn't have to pay for it...but the employees of the bakery would have the final say on your selection. They would approve or decline your selection when they were scanning your items for inventory purposes.

If you were happy with the experience and wanted to give the bakery positive feedback...then you could go to their website and make a contribution of any amount. Their website would display exactly how much positive feedback (revenue) they received.

When bakeries ordered flour from the same supplier...the supplier would use each bakery's revenue to help determine how to divvy up the flour. More revenue means more flour. Same thing with the wheat farmer. He would look at how much positive feedback the suppliers had received in order to determine how best to allocate his wheat.

Would you have an incentive to work hard? Let's say that you worked in a bakery. If you failed to work hard...if you did not improve on your recipes...if you wasted your flour...if you took really long lunch breaks...if you were rude to the customers...then your bakery would lose revenue and competing bakeries would gain revenue. If your bakery lost revenue then your boss wouldn't be able to give you as much positive feedback.

If you received less positive feedback...then you would have less influence over how society's limited resources were used. You wouldn't be able to give your favorite bands...favorite authors...favorite restaurants...as much positive feedback as you felt they deserved. Plus, your living accommodations and transportation wouldn't be as nice.

So would it work? No prices...or profit...but you'd still have the freedom to give positive feedback to those who were using society's limited resources for your benefit. And the amount of influence you had would depend on how much positive feedback other people gave you.

EW that sounds disgusting.

[Pasovo-nacoBo]

So...COMMUNISM.

THE DIRTY REDS.

/sarcasm

lol.

[Mozzissey]

It is possible with extreme automation/cybernation ala Sociocyberneering/The Venus Project

[Trollgaard]

What the hell is using the pound sign and then using no spaces in a short phrase from, and why is this becoming common?

#itsfromtwitter

# = hashtag

Oh. Dumb.

[Northoslavia]

Imagine...

[Xerographica]

So, you're essentially proposing getting rid of the current pricing system in return for a system in which contribution is optional? Say hello to shortages and the free rider problem.

How is the free-rider problem relevant? Every organization is a government organization. Every dollar you spend is a tax dollar.

You see, the pricing model (for all its flaws) does at least one thing really well- it allocates resources to those who most value said resources. Without a pricing model in place, you run into situations in which consumers and producers cannot adequately allocate resources because some (or perhaps even a majority) would be more than willing to take without appropriate payment. Without the pricing model, there becomes no need for consumers to ever adjust their own behavior. Without the pricing model, economic efficiency (which is oh so dependent on the allocation of resources) takes a hit.

Nice, but allocative efficiency depends on opportunity cost. In other words, it's all about individual valuation whether we're talking about private goods...

Time is a limited resource for Rina because she only has so much of it it in which she has to do all the things she wants. This is the basic economic problem of scarcity -- having unlimited needs and wants and limited personal resources to cover them (money/income, skills and time). Scarcity means that Rina must make choices about what she wants to do: she could work at the local cafe or she could spend time with her family, but not both -- she hasn't got enough time. These are her choices and she must make a decision on which she wants to do. If she decides she will work at the cafe, spending time with her family becomes the opportunity cost -- the next best option forgone. She has to make a decision because she hasn't got enough of the personal resource of time to do both.

...or public goods...

Money is a limited resource for Rina because she only has so much of it to spend on all the things she wants. This is the basic economic problem of scarcity -- having unlimited needs and wants and limited personal resources to cover them (money/income, skills and time). Scarcity means that Rina must make choices about what she wants to buy: she could spend a dollar on the EPA or she could spend a dollar on public healthcare, but not both -- once a dollar is spent it can't be spent again. These are her choices and she must make a decision on which one she values more. If she decides to spend her money on the EPA, spending her money on public healthcare becomes the opportunity cost -- the next best option forgone. She has to make a decision because she hasn't got enough of the personal resource of money to do both.

[Geilinor]

So, you're essentially proposing getting rid of the current pricing system in return for a system in which contribution is optional? Say hello to shortages and the free rider problem.

How is the free-rider problem relevant? Every organization is a government organization. Every dollar you spend is a tax dollar.

So a Soviet-style economy? According to history, that doesn't work. It stagnates or turns out like North Korea.

[Lolomz]

pretty cool

[Delmonte]

#Delmontewashere

What the hell is using the pound sign and then using no spaces in a short phrase from, and why is this becoming common?

Did you like... chance upon the internet just now?

[Bendira]

Such a gift economy would only function in conditions of superabundance.

Or primitive abundance, neither of which being good

[Trollgaard]

What the hell is using the pound sign and then using no spaces in a short phrase from, and why is this becoming common?

Did you like... chance upon the internet just now?

No, why?

[Mozzissey]

Such a gift economy would only function in conditions of superabundance.

Or primitive abundance, neither of which being good

How is "superabundance" bad?
I can understand how primitive abundance (like the Neolithic peoples and what have you) is "bad"

[Caninope]

How is the free-rider problem relevant? Every organization is a government organization. Every dollar you spend is a tax dollar.

Because those unwilling to pay will garner positive benefits from those willing to pay said organizations while still able to use the provided goods.

You see, the pricing model (for all its flaws) does at least one thing really well- it allocates resources to those who most value said resources. Without a pricing model in place, you run into situations in which consumers and producers cannot adequately allocate resources because some (or perhaps even a majority) would be more than willing to take without appropriate payment. Without the pricing model, there becomes no need for consumers to ever adjust their own behavior. Without the pricing model, economic efficiency (which is oh so dependent on the allocation of resources) takes a hit.

Nice, but allocative efficiency depends on opportunity cost. In other words, it's all about individual valuation whether we're talking about private goods...or public goods...

OK? I fail to see how your system will get rid of opportunity cost, and even how that's particularly relevant to the point at all- your pricing system creates inefficient allocation.

[Xerographica]

How is the free-rider problem relevant? Every organization is a government organization. Every dollar you spend is a tax dollar.

So a Soviet-style economy? According to history, that doesn't work. It stagnates or turns out like North Korea.

Not like a soviet style economy. With pragma-socialism, you can choose which government organizations you give your positive feedback (money) to. Why give your positive feedback to an organization that doesn't deserve it? You wouldn't. Therefore, poorly managed and wasteful government organizations would receive less and less revenue. If they failed to become more productive/efficient...then they would go bankrupt. This would free up resources for more efficient government organizations.

[Caninope]

So a Soviet-style economy? According to history, that doesn't work. It stagnates or turns out like North Korea.

Not like a soviet style economy. With pragma-socialism, you can choose which government organizations you give your positive feedback (money) to. Why give your positive feedback to an organization that doesn't deserve it? You wouldn't. Therefore, poorly managed and wasteful government organizations would receive less and less revenue. If they failed to become more productive/efficient...then they would go bankrupt. This would free up resources for more efficient government organizations.

The point of government isn't to be efficient, lean, or popular. The point of government is to provide a given set of programs determined for a number of reasons. Allowing people to opt out of where their money goes would create both free riders and horribly underfunded programs.

[The Parkus Empire]

the employees of the bakery would have the final say on your selection.

As if there would even be a selection.

[Khameen-Uralia]

So what I'm getting is that consumers would pay for things with donations.

It's an interesting idea, to say the least.

It would be interesting to know how people would use their money in such a situation. The businesses that would survive would be the ones that successfully convince consumers to donate. It'd also be interesting to know how money would be created and destroyed in such a situation. Do loans still function? Do businesses take out a loan and then just "maybe" pay it back if they are satisfied that the bank gave them a good experience and will continue to give them good loans?

How do taxes work? Do the citizens go "Oh well, I guess I liked the government this past year... Guess I'll give them some of my money."?

What does work become all about? Business revenues are highly dependent on the impression made on the consumer. It seems that big businesses are much worse than small businesses at doing that. I mean my barber charges half price for us because he knows my dad well. You wouldn't see that with a big-chain barber shop.

I have no idea if it would work. Just some questions I thought about.