California Governor Signs Transgender Student Bill

[Screensaver]

I see nothing but future problems.

I'm sure said problems can be handled without treating transgender people like shit.

It is a fact of life, you can't make everyone happy. Safety should always come first. If they want to go to the other bathroom so badly, then at least start HRT.

[Des-Bal]

I do apologize. I was under the impression that you were in favor of sex/gender-segregation in sports.

No, just racism.

[Grenartia]

Crash course:
By no fault of their own, or their parents, or anyone else's (unless you believe in God, then it's totally His fault), they feel that the body they were born with is wrong. Some of them feel they need to be the opposite gender, some people feel they need to be both genders, some people feel they need to be no genders. This isn't about femininity or masculinity, there is some sort of weird drive in each of us that makes us feel like a certain type of person. it's not reversible. it's not a disease. it's not wrong.
These people are discriminated against to the max. They are ridiculed, beaten, raped, murdered, denied employment and housing, and thrown out of their family. Add on top of this the feelings they feel just by existing in a society that doesn't acknowledge their existence. What bathrooms are they allowed to use? What teams are they allowed to play on? Where can they get help?
This bill is a break in their storm, giving them the right to be a little more okay with who they are, and be able to enter whatever bathroom they feel most comfortable using, and to be able to play on whatever team they feel most comfortable playing on.

Marry me.

NO! Marry me!

http://www.thetaskforce.org/reports_and_research/ntds

Read the report.

I did
Discrimination is a thing and it sucks. It happens and it shouldn't. But I'm not going to let some self righteous prick demean me and my morals because they can't get it through their thick skull that I'm not against transgender rights.

I'm not saying you are against our rights. However, you downplayed transphobia and cases of violence.

[Blasveck]

Hon, where have you been for the whole of human history.

Minorities have always been discriminated against.

The whole concept of transgenders is fairly new to me, actually.

The more you know.

Hell, I don't know why people still (negatively) care about someone's gender and/or sexual orientation.

A pointless endeavor.

[Brissia]

I am a Jew, and I know perfectly well of the Holocaust. But sheesh, that under a fascist authoritarian regime!!!

So you just hadn't heard of like lynching or anything? The fact that this isn't government sponsored means this is a step forward in the minority bashing front.

I have. I just never connected it with transgenders, stupid me.

[Tsiryli]

Yea, because this is a good idea.

I dont know about the rest of the men in the world, but as a teenager I was willing to do just about anything to see a girl nude (we didn't have this fancy-smancy internet when I was a lad), and lord knows if it meant acting like a transsexual for about 45 minutes so I could go to the girls locker room, so be it.

When people make laws, they seem to forget the basic factor in why laws are even made: Human nature. I see this as...well, I see this as that. People forgetting Human Nature exists.

Since no-one else is up for refuting this post, I will.

If you were (and/or are) that driven to spot someone in their birthday suit, and you're claiming that desperation from those of your ilk is reason enough to declare that trans* people ought not be able to use bathrooms because they might be faking to spot someone's nude bits, then that reflects badly on you for several reasons:

One: You are, or were, a pervert. This isn't really a great argument, because it's ultimately ad hominem, but it's also possibly true.

Two: You clearly don't understand that trans* people don't have sex and gender that aligns with the classical binary. They legitimately feel confusion and question whether or not their sex chromosomes align with their brain chemistry, until they realize that maybe something got mixed up and they'd rather be a girl, boy, or something in between.

Three:You're assuming that they would just be snooping around in whichever bathroom so they could spot someone's junk. Bathroom stalls are rather private and most people at urinals aren't terribly keen on looking at other penises when they're preoccupied with aiming at their own urinal.

Four: What you just described as being "human nature" is actually called "rape culture." Yeah, people have urges. People get horny. But saying that someone like you is incapable of controlling those urges is not only an insult to the intellectual capacity of people like you, it is an excuse. Making excuses and saying that essentially one's genitalia has a mind of its own is a way for voyeurs, molestors, and rapists to (attempt to) excise responsibility from their own actions.

[Torcularis Septentrionalis]

Marry me.

NO! Marry me!

Plural Marriage, ROLL OUT

[Blasveck]

Transgender is a political and/or philosophical title for individuals who suffer from Gender Identity Dysphoria, which is the actual medical and physiological diagnosis of an individual feeling dysfunction between their identifying gender and their biological gender; without getting that diagnosis, you can't get sex reassignment.

The idea that people who can "self identify" themselves as gender A or B is absolutely insane in my opinion. Medically speaking, a person is defined as Male or Female based upon their DNA and, indeed, their genitalia. If you are born as an XY Chromosomal human being and have thee reproductive organs of a male, you are a male. If you are born an XX and have the reproductive organs of a Female, you are in fact a female. There are, naturally, infants born as hermaphrodites, which are a superstate of the two, existing with XX and XY Chromosomes and genitalia of both sexes. More often than not, however, it is caused from a weaker of two traits being expressed in conjunction with the dominant of the two, and in such situations, can be remedied.

What is this I don't even....

[Des-Bal]

I have. I just never connected it with transgenders, stupid me.

It's literally every minority. All of them. Even the ones you think nobody would possibly discriminate against are discriminated against.

[Len Hyet]

Marry me.

NO! Marry me!

I did
Discrimination is a thing and it sucks. It happens and it shouldn't. But I'm not going to let some self righteous prick demean me and my morals because they can't get it through their thick skull that I'm not against transgender rights.

I'm not saying you are against our rights. However, you downplayed transphobia and cases of violence.

I said 13 people died and that while it sucks, its not a reason to whip up a flag and start screaming about oppression.

Your report is however, and I don't demean that.

[Liriena]

Transgender is a political and/or philosophical title for individuals who suffer from Gender Identity Dysphoria, which is the actual medical and physiological diagnosis of an individual feeling dysfunction between their identifying gender and their biological gender; without getting that diagnosis, you can't get sex reassignment.

The idea that people who can "self identify" themselves as gender A or B is absolutely insane in my opinion. Medically speaking, a person is defined as Male or Female based upon their DNA and, indeed, their genitalia. If you are born as an XY Chromosomal human being and have thee reproductive organs of a male, you are a male. If you are born an XX and have the reproductive organs of a Female, you are in fact a female. There are, naturally, infants born as hermaphrodites, which are a superstate of the two, existing with XX and XY Chromosomes and genitalia of both sexes. More often than not, however, it is caused from a weaker of two traits being expressed in conjunction with the dominant of the two, and in such situations, can be remedied.

I'm pretty sure the latest DSM makes your post everything but kosher.

[Brissia]

I have. I just never connected it with transgenders, stupid me.

It's literally every minority. All of them. Even the ones you think nobody would possibly discriminate against are discriminated against.

I get that NOW.

[Vareiln]

Transgender is a political and/or philosophical title for individuals who suffer from Gender Identity Dysphoria, which is the actual medical and physiological diagnosis of an individual feeling dysfunction between their identifying gender and their biological gender; without getting that diagnosis, you can't get sex reassignment.

The idea that people who can "self identify" themselves as gender A or B is absolutely insane in my opinion. Medically speaking, a person is defined as Male or Female based upon their DNA and, indeed, their genitalia. If you are born as an XY Chromosomal human being and have thee reproductive organs of a male, you are a male. If you are born an XX and have the reproductive organs of a Female, you are in fact a female. There are, naturally, infants born as hermaphrodites, which are a superstate of the two, existing with XX and XY Chromosomes and genitalia of both sexes. More often than not, however, it is caused from a weaker of two traits being expressed in conjunction with the dominant of the two, and in such situations, can be remedied.

Please... Just stop.
In two posts, you've managed to eliminate all the respect I've ever had for you.
Can someone else please handle this one?

[Lost heros]

While this is a step towards equality, I can foresee it having problems. (As stated by several others)

I see nothing but future problems.

Such as?

[Liriena]

Yea, because this is a good idea.

I dont know about the rest of the men in the world, but as a teenager I was willing to do just about anything to see a girl nude (we didn't have this fancy-smancy internet when I was a lad), and lord knows if it meant acting like a transsexual for about 45 minutes so I could go to the girls locker room, so be it.

When people make laws, they seem to forget the basic factor in why laws are even made: Human nature. I see this as...well, I see this as that. People forgetting Human Nature exists.

Since no-one else is up for refuting this post, I will.

If you were (and/or are) that driven to spot someone in their birthday suit, and you're claiming that desperation from those of your ilk is reason enough to declare that trans* people ought not be able to use bathrooms because they might be faking to spot someone's nude bits, then that reflects badly on you for several reasons:

One: You are, or were, a pervert. This isn't really a great argument, because it's ultimately ad hominem, but it's also possibly true.

Two: You clearly don't understand that trans* people don't have sex and gender that aligns with the classical binary. They legitimately feel confusion and question whether or not their sex chromosomes align with their brain chemistry, until they realize that maybe something got mixed up and they'd rather be a girl, boy, or something in between.

Three:You're assuming that they would just be snooping around in whichever bathroom so they could spot someone's junk. Bathroom stalls are rather private and most people at urinals aren't terribly keen on looking at other penises when they're preoccupied with aiming at their own urinal.

Four: What you just described as being "human nature" is actually called "rape culture." Yeah, people have urges. People get horny. But saying that someone like you is incapable of controlling those urges is not only an insult to the intellectual capacity of people like you, it is an excuse. Making excuses and saying that essentially one's genitalia has a mind of its own is a way for voyeurs, molestors, and rapists to (attempt to) excise responsibility from their own actions.

Ad hominem asides...

[Des-Bal]

I'm pretty sure the latest DSM makes your post everything but kosher.

Don't suppose you know the logic on that particular update?

[Grenartia]

Hon, where have you been for the whole of human history.

Minorities have always been discriminated against.

The whole concept of transgenders is fairly new to me, actually.

At least you're willing to learn. As long as there are people who are willing to learn, there is hope.

NO! Marry me!

Plural Marriage, ROLL OUT

YAY!!!

[Vareiln]

I'm sure said problems can be handled without treating transgender people like shit.

It is a fact of life, you can't make everyone happy. Safety should always come first. If they want to go to the other bathroom so badly, then at least start HRT.

If only I could afford to.

[Blasveck]

Transgender is a political and/or philosophical title for individuals who suffer from Gender Identity Dysphoria, which is the actual medical and physiological diagnosis of an individual feeling dysfunction between their identifying gender and their biological gender; without getting that diagnosis, you can't get sex reassignment.

The idea that people who can "self identify" themselves as gender A or B is absolutely insane in my opinion. Medically speaking, a person is defined as Male or Female based upon their DNA and, indeed, their genitalia. If you are born as an XY Chromosomal human being and have thee reproductive organs of a male, you are a male. If you are born an XX and have the reproductive organs of a Female, you are in fact a female. There are, naturally, infants born as hermaphrodites, which are a superstate of the two, existing with XX and XY Chromosomes and genitalia of both sexes. More often than not, however, it is caused from a weaker of two traits being expressed in conjunction with the dominant of the two, and in such situations, can be remedied.

Please... Just stop.
In two posts, you've managed to eliminate all the respect I've ever had for you.
Can someone else please handle this one?

I don't think I can Var.

My "What the fuck is this shit" meter is off the charts

[Torcularis Septentrionalis]

Please, be done with me. It will hurt so bad.

You don't get it do you?
I'm not against transgender rights. I'm against you attacking me personally.

I never attacked you personally. I attacked the morals upon which you base your idea that trans* people don't deserve these rights. If you can't take the heat of a debate, don't come to a debate.
And then, while you are crying about how I attacked you "personally," which is demonstrably untrue, you very clearly attack me personally. And then have the gall to tall me I'm being uncivil.

[Anachronous Rex]

Transgender is a political and/or philosophical title for individuals who suffer from Gender Identity Dysphoria, which is the actual medical and physiological diagnosis of an individual feeling dysfunction between their identifying gender and their biological gender; without getting that diagnosis, you can't get sex reassignment.

The idea that people who can "self identify" themselves as gender A or B is absolutely insane in my opinion. Medically speaking, a person is defined as Male or Female based upon their DNA and, indeed, their genitalia. If you are born as an XY Chromosomal human being and have thee reproductive organs of a male, you are a male. If you are born an XX and have the reproductive organs of a Female, you are in fact a female. There are, naturally, infants born as hermaphrodites, which are a superstate of the two, existing with XX and XY Chromosomes and genitalia of both sexes. More often than not, however, it is caused from a weaker of two traits being expressed in conjunction with the dominant of the two, and in such situations, can be remedied.

We do not have brains, we are our brains. If, through any hormonal or epigenetic process, a brain develops along lines which differ from that person's biological sex, that person can be said to be of the sex presented by their neurology.

We can modify the body to suit self-image (we do this all the time in fact, usually without issue), modifying the brain to suit the body is a far more ethically dangerous area. Therefore deference should always be given to the former.

[Len Hyet]

You don't get it do you?
I'm not against transgender rights. I'm against you attacking me personally.

I never attacked you personally. I attacked the morals upon which you base your idea that trans* people don't deserve these rights. If you can't take the heat of a debate, don't come to a debate.
And then, while you are crying about how I attacked you "personally," which is demonstrably untrue, you very clearly attack me personally. And then have the gall to tall me I'm being uncivil.

Okay, let me rephrase something you don't seem to understand.
I, that being me.
Am not against, in agreement with
Transgender rights.

That clear enough for you? You did in fact attack me personally, several times. And I'm sick of it.

[Anachronous Rex]

NO! Marry me!

Plural Marriage, ROLL OUT

I'm... okay with this.

Hell, why not let everybody in? Orgy at Torc's place, NSG!

[Torcularis Septentrionalis]

I never attacked you personally. I attacked the morals upon which you base your idea that trans* people don't deserve these rights. If you can't take the heat of a debate, don't come to a debate.
And then, while you are crying about how I attacked you "personally," which is demonstrably untrue, you very clearly attack me personally. And then have the gall to tall me I'm being uncivil.

Okay, let me rephrase something you don't seem to understand.
I, that being me.
Am not against, in agreement with
Transgender rights.

That clear enough for you? You did in fact attack me personally, several times. And I'm sick of it.

But you're against this bill?

And source my attack.

[Valtakuntia]

I do apologize. I was under the impression that you were in favor of sex/gender-segregation in sports.

No, just racism.

I'm so confused.

YOU'RE in favor of racism, or you thought that I was? I was just saying that according to statistics on Wikipedia, the top 10 marathon runners of all time are all African. I never even stated that Africans were physically superior; I'm just saying that according to Wikipedia, they win marathon races more often than people of other races, and since we don't have a "white league" or anything like that (which we obviously shouldn't, that would be a terrible idea) we shouldn't have a "women's league" in anything, even if men routinely outperform them.

Just my two cents.