California Governor Signs Transgender Student Bill

[Grenartia]

1. And misgendering is civil?

2. Because what your advocating inherently puts trans* people at an even higher risk (and their risk is already throught the fucking roof, compared to the rest of the population) of being victims of those acts.

1. Please identify 'misgendering'.

2. What in the world are you talking about?

1. Referring to somebody with the wrong pronouns.

2. Read this: http://www.thetaskforce.org/reports_and_research/ntds

[Christian Democrats]

Gender expression is physical, and external. It is, for the intents and purposes of this discussion, no different than skin color.

Not really. Skin color can be observed by looking at a human body.

Do you know that someone is transgender by looking at his or her body?

[Liriena]

Yea, because this is a good idea.

I dont know about the rest of the men in the world, but as a teenager I was willing to do just about anything to see a girl nude (we didn't have this fancy-smancy internet when I was a lad), and lord knows if it meant acting like a transsexual for about 45 minutes so I could go to the girls locker room, so be it.

When people make laws, they seem to forget the basic factor in why laws are even made: Human nature. I see this as...well, I see this as that. People forgetting Human Nature exists.

I'm not even going to touch this one... I just can't.
Someone else want to take a shot at it?

Wouldn't touch that post with a ten foot pole.

[Dakini]

Ladies, if a 6'3 obviously male bodybuilder wearing a dress and covered in gang tattoos walked into your restroom because he claimed to "identify as female", and "couldn't afford HRT yet", would you seriously let him in without question? Bathrooms are sex segregated for a reason. It is protect people from becoming potential victims of sex crimes and to prevent perverts, like the guy mentioned earlier it this statement, from fulfilling their sick and likely illegal fantasies.

Considering that women's washrooms have stalls, I would not give a shit.

I am NOT saying that transgendered people are perverts.

Yes you are.

[Forsher]

Theoretically, sports have a male/female split because of biological differences between the sexes.

Also, if a cisgender girl had more muscle mass and was taller than other girls, should she have to compete with the boys?

I somehow doubt that this is a question aimed at advocating "mixed" sports as the default, but I'm going to treat it as such.

The idea is to put athletes on a level playing field. That is to say one where people are competing from the same base standard and improving on that. For example, if a woman was able to do something about her hips, she could probably eventually get to a level where she'd leave Usain Bolt in the dust. That's not to say many women aren't faster than men though (and I'm talking sprints here, to be clear, long distance is totally different). It is to say that the female skeleton gives anyone with such a skeleton a disadvantage in sprints. To an extent, this is also seen in weight classes as well but, I'm less aware of this, and I have a feeling it's more about stopping people from facing athletes twice their weight or more for safety reasons.

What I am really trying to say is that I couldn't care less about bathrooms and toilets and stuff. The problem as I see it is that there are always going to be people who are better, but the idea is to show that you're better compared to people starting in the same place as you. As someone mentioned, hormones are going to change some of these things. I don't think they're going to do much about differences that hormones aren't going to change, and that's why I think there's a problem. This is no longer about the mental, it's sport, it's about the physical (even though, yeah, the mental is a major secondary part but the action is all physical).

[Anachronous Rex]

Silly Torc, everyone knows trans people like me don't deserve rights.

Silly Var.

You should know that none of us LGBT people deserve rights.

You just don't understand the terrible burden of all this white heterosexual cismale privilege. Were that I could be rid of it.

[Torcularis Septentrionalis]

Gender identity is mental. It is "an individual's self-conception as being male or female, as distinguished from actual biological sex."

http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/228219/gender-identity

Should I be shocked.

I back LGB rights. I fit in that category actually. Not so much T.

Because...?

ITS A SINNNNNNNN

[Vareiln]

I look forward to the day when people like you will actually be humans for once and experience that one magical thing in the human experience: empathy.

I hate being a human. Personally, at times I see myself as being above a human. Humanity is sad and I don't like being a human.

Dat edge

[Blasveck]

Silly Var.

You should know that none of us LGBT people deserve rights.

Damn gays, stinking up the place with their frilly clothes and lisps. Oh no, wait. I'm the one with the frilly clothes.
Well, at least there's still those damned men-hating feminist lesbians.

And then there's those damned bisexuals like me.

Apparently, we don't exist.

[Anachronous Rex]

Gender expression is physical, and external. It is, for the intents and purposes of this discussion, no different than skin color.

Not really. Skin color can be observed by looking at a human body.

Do you know that someone is transgender by looking at his or her body?

Not always, but often.

[Jamjai]

I don't know about too much about transgenders, either ways

[Torcularis Septentrionalis]

I'm not even going to touch this one... I just can't.
Someone else want to take a shot at it?

Wouldn't touch that post with a ten foot pole.

I read it once and now I'm refusing to even look at it. GodDAMN.

[Len Hyet]

And what morals would that be pray tell?
Hm? At what point did I attack transgender people? At what point did I do anything besides say that this law was ill thought out?

You're attacking me for no reason, and to be frank it hurts me deeply that you would think of me so little. So please, rescind your unfounded accusations.

You are denying the rights of trans* people, and claiming that their struggles are not important because "not many" are murdered. That in itself if transphobic.
So, how many murdered trans* people would with take to convince you that their rights and lives matter?

No, I didn't, and no, I'm not.
I said "hardly an epidemic" which bluntly means that 13 American Transgenders were murdered out of the thousands total. Noticeably absent was a source that they were murdered for being transgendered.

I'm not saying there isn't a struggle I'm saying your source was bad. And if you can't take that then you don't belong on the Internet.

How many? Okay, fuck it. And more importantly, fuck your self righteous idiocy. At NO point did I EVER say that I don't care about transgendered people. HOW DARE YOU insinuate that I don't value every humans life equally. So how about you get off your high horse.

If you can't conduct yourself with even the slightest degree of civility then I'm through debating you. In fact, this stopped being a debate a long time ago, and turned into a series of unnecessary personal attacks by you.

[Gauthier]

Because clearly a transgender is that way solely to meet women. *nod*

[Vareiln]

I'm not even going to touch this one... I just can't.
Someone else want to take a shot at it?

Wouldn't touch that post with a ten foot pole.

It's just saddening. Puzikas was someone who I've been friendly with in the MMW thread and had a lot of respect for, and then to see them write a post like that... Well, it just kind of hurts.

[Grenartia]

Gender expression is physical, and external. It is, for the intents and purposes of this discussion, no different than skin color.

Not really. Skin color can be observed by looking at a human body.

Do you know that someone is transgender by looking at his or her body?

No, but you can tell what their gender is by looking at them. Because that's what gender expression IS.

[Brissia]

1. Please identify 'misgendering'.

2. What in the world are you talking about?

1. Referring to somebody with the wrong pronouns.

2. Read this: http://www.thetaskforce.org/reports_and_research/ntds

Then tell me that with

1. I am deeply sorry for accidentally misgendering.

2. I.......I really didn't expect that from the human race.

[Blasveck]

Not gonna happen. LGBT rights have quite the momentum, and the scientific community (and quiet a few judges and lawyers) backs them.

I am a part of the LGBT be community for your information. I support my right to marry, but, I am against insane measures like this for transgendered people. Sometimes I don't understand why transgendered people are included in our community.

Well this is odd, to say the least......

[Des-Bal]

Because clearly a transgender is that way solely to meet women.

Is that's what's been argued? Perverts exist and pretending they wouldn't lie to engage in perversion is just willfully ignorant.

[Vareiln]

Damn gays, stinking up the place with their frilly clothes and lisps. Oh no, wait. I'm the one with the frilly clothes.
Well, at least there's still those damned men-hating feminist lesbians.

And then there's those damned bisexuals like me.

Apparently, we don't exist.

Of course, that's why I didn't mention them at all.
I'm actually extremely happy someone noticed that intentional omission

[Valtakuntia]

Then if you want to become really good at a sport, just put a lot of value into it. So, if you're a girl, and you put a lot of value into baseball, you can dominate boys at it. Nations in general do not force people to play a sport; if you want to be good at a sport, then actually spend time putting effort into it and do not settle for being one of the best "girls". That's called slacking. Again, if you want to be good at something, then actually practice it and don't whine about being "physically challenged" compared to men and claim that people with something else between their legs need a separate league. If there is a girl who's actually better at sports than some men, she should be able to compete against men. If there is a boy that isn't as good at sports as other men, then he should be able to join a lower league; which may or may not be mainly comprised of females.

You're preaching to the choir.

How so?

http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/preach+to+the+choir

Many people here disagree with me and say that sports should be sex or gender-segregated. I'm saying that sports should be segregated based on skill level. There should be no WNBA, just as there should be no MNBA, which there isn't.

[Grenartia]

You are denying the rights of trans* people, and claiming that their struggles are not important because "not many" are murdered. That in itself if transphobic.
So, how many murdered trans* people would with take to convince you that their rights and lives matter?

No, I didn't, and no, I'm not.
I said "hardly an epidemic" which bluntly means that 13 American Transgenders were murdered out of the thousands total. Noticeably absent was a source that they were murdered for being transgendered.

I'm not saying there isn't a struggle I'm saying your source was bad. And if you can't take that then you don't belong on the Internet.

How many? Okay, fuck it. And more importantly, fuck your self righteous idiocy. At NO point did I EVER say that I don't care about transgendered people. HOW DARE YOU insinuate that I don't value every humans life equally. So how about you get off your high horse.

If you can't conduct yourself with even the slightest degree of civility then I'm through debating you. In fact, this stopped being a debate a long time ago, and turned into a series of unnecessary personal attacks by you.

http://www.thetaskforce.org/reports_and_research/ntds

Read the report.

[Liriena]

Not gonna happen. LGBT rights have quite the momentum, and the scientific community (and quiet a few judges and lawyers) backs them.

I am a part of the LGBT be community for your information. I support my right to marry, but, I am against insane measures like this for transgendered people. Sometimes I don't understand why transgendered people are included in our community.

Because transgender people have always been part of the LGBT community. Their history and struggles took place side by side of gays, lesbians and bis. Even in ancient history, transgender and homosexual individuals were considered part of a special community, outside of the traditional gender binary, and were often revered for it.

[Vareiln]

1. Referring to somebody with the wrong pronouns.

2. Read this: http://www.thetaskforce.org/reports_and_research/ntds

Then tell me that with

1. I am deeply sorry for accidentally misgendering.

2. I.......I really didn't expect that from the human race.

I'm pleasantly surprised to see a post like this.

[La Republique Communiste Francais]

I am in California