Islam/Muslim Discussion Thread

[Xathranaar]

Well, I suppose, People of the Book and all that...

I'm not really sure what you're supposing here. You suppose what?

But basically a very rough outline of Islamic rules surrounding marriage is this:

A Muslim man can have up to four wives (and he must provide for them equally) and they may be either Muslim or from the People of the Book (Christians, Jews etc).

A Muslim woman can have one husband, who must be a Muslim.

Not that I agree that that should be the case of course, just outlining what has traditionally been part of the theology.

I wasn't sure if you were asking a question or declaring a fact, when you said, "For a Muslim man it isn't considered a sin for him to marry a Christian or Jew you mean?"

So I replied that, based upon what I know of Islam, it would make sense that the rules would be more lenient towards non-Pagans. Which apparently you have confirmed, so hurray for me.

Just out of curiosity, do you know what the rules are for Zoroastrians? Not that there are many left, mind... but are they on par with Jews and Christians?

[Nightkill the Emperor]

Aamir Khan and Amithab are better, yeah.

So SRK cannot call himself a Muslim then?

He can call himself whatever he wants. I'm just stating what is the traditional opinion...I'm not going to go around declaring Takfir (excommunication) towards members if a faith I don't even practice, so yeah.

Also, wtf is up with Salman Khan these days? Why has he gone from reasonably well-built to "roided up and slightly obese Goliath-man"?

He's going to become a Bollywood Marlon Brando, just watch.

[Nightkill the Emperor]

I'm not really sure what you're supposing here. You suppose what?

But basically a very rough outline of Islamic rules surrounding marriage is this:

A Muslim man can have up to four wives (and he must provide for them equally) and they may be either Muslim or from the People of the Book (Christians, Jews etc).

A Muslim woman can have one husband, who must be a Muslim.

Not that I agree that that should be the case of course, just outlining what has traditionally been part of the theology.

I wasn't sure if you were asking a question or declaring a fact, when you said, "For a Muslim man it isn't considered a sin for him to marry a Christian or Jew you mean?"

So I replied that, based upon what I know of Islam, it would make sense that the rules would be more lenient towards non-Pagans. Which apparently you have confirmed, so hurray for me.

Just out of curiosity, do you know what the rules are for Zoroastrians? Not that there are many left, mind... but are they on par with Jews and Christians?

They stopped being important after Freddie Mercury died.

[EnragedMaldivians]

I'm not really sure what you're supposing here. You suppose what?

But basically a very rough outline of Islamic rules surrounding marriage is this:

A Muslim man can have up to four wives (and he must provide for them equally) and they may be either Muslim or from the People of the Book (Christians, Jews etc).

A Muslim woman can have one husband, who must be a Muslim.

Not that I agree that that should be the case of course, just outlining what has traditionally been part of the theology.

I wasn't sure if you were asking a question or declaring a fact, when you said, "For a Muslim man it isn't considered a sin for him to marry a Christian or Jew you mean?"

So I replied that, based upon what I know of Islam, it would make sense that the rules would be more lenient towards non-Pagans. Which apparently you have confirmed, so hurray for me.

Just out of curiosity, do you know what the rules are for Zoroastrians? Not that there are many left, mind... but are they on par with Jews and Christians?

I'm not actually sure on that. The Qur'an mentions Christians, Sabians and Jews as the People of the Book...beyond that it's iffy.

[Xathranaar]

I wasn't sure if you were asking a question or declaring a fact, when you said, "For a Muslim man it isn't considered a sin for him to marry a Christian or Jew you mean?"

So I replied that, based upon what I know of Islam, it would make sense that the rules would be more lenient towards non-Pagans. Which apparently you have confirmed, so hurray for me.

Just out of curiosity, do you know what the rules are for Zoroastrians? Not that there are many left, mind... but are they on par with Jews and Christians?

I'm not actually sure on that. The Qur'an mentions Christians, Sabians and Jews as the People of the Book...beyond that it's iffy.

Odd that it wouldn't be more explicit, as surely it must come up...

Any Iranians on, per chance?

[EnragedMaldivians]

I'm not actually sure on that. The Qur'an mentions Christians, Sabians and Jews as the People of the Book...beyond that it's iffy.

Odd that it wouldn't be more explicit, as surely it must come up...

Any Iranians on, per chance?

Well, the Iranian State protects them as people of the book. As a matter of theology...I'm not really so sure.

Thing is Muhammad grew up within a predominantly Arab milieu and his merchant days took him about as far as Syria (which was under Byzantine rule at the time). I'm not actually sure he would have known that much about Zoroastrians (I mean, of course he knew about Sassanid Persia, but probably not much regarding the nuances of what was the predominant religion there) so that's probably why the Qur'an doesn't mention them. There's really no hard and fast rule regarding them.

[Eastfield Lodge]

Odd that it wouldn't be more explicit, as surely it must come up...

Any Iranians on, per chance?

Well, the Iranian State protects them as people of the book. As a matter of theology...I'm not really so sure.

Thing is Muhammad grew up within a predominantly Arab milieu and his merchant days took him about as far as Syria (which was under Byzantine rule at the time). I'm not actually sure he would have known that much about Zoroastrians (I mean, of course he knew about Sassanid Persia, but probably not much regarding the nuances of what was the predominant religion there) so that's probably why the Qur'an doesn't mention them. There's really no hard and fast rule regarding them.

I'm guessing that he would have some knowledge of it, given that one of the Sahaba was a convert from Zoroastrianism, who went on to be the first Quranic translator (Arabic to Persian).

[EnragedMaldivians]

Well, the Iranian State protects them as people of the book. As a matter of theology...I'm not really so sure.

Thing is Muhammad grew up within a predominantly Arab milieu and his merchant days took him about as far as Syria (which was under Byzantine rule at the time). I'm not actually sure he would have known that much about Zoroastrians (I mean, of course he knew about Sassanid Persia, but probably not much regarding the nuances of what was the predominant religion there) so that's probably why the Qur'an doesn't mention them. There's really no hard and fast rule regarding them.

I'm guessing that he would have some knowledge of it, given that one of the Sahaba was a convert from Zoroastrianism, who went on to be the first Quranic translator (Arabic to Persian).

Salman the Persian, right? Anyway that's just one person, and we don't know if he was very familiar with Zoroastrian theology or if he conversed regularly with the prophet regarding his native religion. Muhammad grew up surrounded by Pagans, Christians and Jews, so he would have far more familiarity with regard to those religions than he would likely have with regard to Zoroastrianism.

Anyway, what do you think? Would you say Zoroastrians count as People of the Book?

[Eastfield Lodge]

I'm guessing that he would have some knowledge of it, given that one of the Sahaba was a convert from Zoroastrianism, who went on to be the first Quranic translator (Arabic to Persian).

Salman the Persian, right? Anyway that's just one person, and we don't know if he was very familiar with Zoroastrian theology or if he conversed regularly with the prophet regarding his native religion. Muhammad grew up surrounded by Pagans, Christians and Jews, so he would have far more familiarity with regard to those religions than he would likely have with regard to Zoroastrianism.

Anyway, what do you think? Would you say Zoroastrians count as People of the Book?

Yeah, him.

I'd think not. People of the Book refer to those who received one of the four books of God, i.e. the Bible, the Torah, the Quran and that fourth one I can't remember. But that narrows it down to just Christians, Jews and Muslims.

[EnragedMaldivians]

Salman the Persian, right? Anyway that's just one person, and we don't know if he was very familiar with Zoroastrian theology or if he conversed regularly with the prophet regarding his native religion. Muhammad grew up surrounded by Pagans, Christians and Jews, so he would have far more familiarity with regard to those religions than he would likely have with regard to Zoroastrianism.

Anyway, what do you think? Would you say Zoroastrians count as People of the Book?

Yeah, him.

I'd think not. People of the Book refer to those who received one of the four books of God, i.e. the Bible, the Torah, the Quran and that fourth one I can't remember. But that narrows it down to just Christians, Jews and Muslims.

The Taurat, Injeel, Zabur and Qur'an are the four books of God according to Islam.

Yeah, that's why it's a little iffy with Zoroastrianism as well; it's not really an Abrahamic religion. There's probably some leeway, but with Christians and Jews it's directly specified that they are People of the Book.

[Eastfield Lodge]

Yeah, him.

I'd think not. People of the Book refer to those who received one of the four books of God, i.e. the Bible, the Torah, the Quran and that fourth one I can't remember. But that narrows it down to just Christians, Jews and Muslims.

The Taurat, Injeel, Zabur and Qur'an are the four books of God according to Islam.

Yeah, that's why it's a little iffy with Zoroastrianism as well; it's not really an Abrahamic religion. There's probably some leeway, but with Christians and Jews it's directly specified that they are People of the Book.

What is the Zabur? Taurat = Torah, Injeel = Bible, Quran is itself, so what's the Zabur?

[EnragedMaldivians]

The Taurat, Injeel, Zabur and Qur'an are the four books of God according to Islam.

Yeah, that's why it's a little iffy with Zoroastrianism as well; it's not really an Abrahamic religion. There's probably some leeway, but with Christians and Jews it's directly specified that they are People of the Book.

What is the Zabur? Taurat = Torah, Injeel = Bible, Quran is itself, so what's the Zabur?

It's kind of hard to create equivalencies because Islam considers a lot of the Bible, which would include the Torah, to be corrupted. Both the Taurat and Zabur would be part of the Old Testament I guess..I mean, the Taurat/Torah part is obvious, but I don't really know which part counts as the Zabur.

According to Islam, basically the Taurat is what was revealed to Moosa/Moses and the Zabur is what was revealed to Dawud/David. The Injeel being of course, what was revealed to Eesa/Jesus.

Aargh, autocorrect on my tablet is so annoying.

[Samonaemia]

What is the Zabur? Taurat = Torah, Injeel = Bible, Quran is itself, so what's the Zabur?

It's kind of hard to create equivalencies because Islam considers a lot of the Bible, which would include the Torah, to be corrupted. Both the Taurat and Zabur would be part of the Old Testament I guess..I mean, the Taurat/Torah part is obvious, but I don't really know which part counts as the Zabur.

According to Islam, basically the Taurat is what was revealed to Moosa/Moses and the Zabur is what was revealed to Dawud/David. The Injeel being of course, what was revealed to Eesa/Jesus.

Aargh, autocorrect on my tablet is so annoying.

Don't forget Suhuf Ibrahim, the scriptures of Abraham, it is also considered one of the sacred scriptures. I don't believe however, that the Sabians followed these scriptures nor did they follow the teachings of abrahamic prophets, they were only monotheistic.

Remember that the verse that mentions the Muslims, Jews, Christians, and Sabians did not mention the "people of the book" but rather states anyone who worships God, the last day and do good works, so I do not believe that only the people of the book are considered somewhat as non-disbelievers but all monotheistic religions.

[Great Islamic Empire]

There are many errors in the list of the options to vote. First of all, the Sunni Islam includes many madhhabs, and this list doesn't include any madhhab, but only sub-madhhab groups.

For example, the Ibadi Group is a Sunni group. If one is Ibadi, is also Sunni. So the Sunni and Ibadi options shouldn't be separated, because the latter is a group of the first one.

Also, Salafi and Wahhabi are sub-madhhabs of the madhhab Hanbali. The madhhab Hanbali is Sunni. So there is the same error of the Sunni-Ibadi misconception. If one is Hanbali is also Sunni.
It's not possible to say "I am Hanbali/Ibadi but I'm not Sunni", it would be an oxymoron.

Moreover, the Sufi Question is difficult to approach. Many muslims does not consider Sufis as muslims, and Sufism is neither Shiite nor Sunni. This option shouldn't be there among the options, it confuses more the situation.

Finally, what do you mean with "Quranists". I never heard about a maddhab, sub-madhhab or heretical group called "Quranist", and I don't even think that it exists.

What kind of poll is this? Apotheosis of confusion!

[Eireann Fae]

Finally, what do you mean with "Quranists". I never heard about a maddhab, sub-madhhab or heretical group called "Quranist", and I don't even think that it exists.

I assumed that to be the equivalent to a nondenominational Christian. One that does not follow any sect, but holds true to the holy book itself.

[Great Islamic Empire]

Finally, what do you mean with "Quranists". I never heard about a maddhab, sub-madhhab or heretical group called "Quranist", and I don't even think that it exists.

I assumed that to be the equivalent to a nondenominational Christian. One that does not follow any sect, but holds true to the holy book itself.

A Muslim follows the Sunnah or the Shiah, so is Sunni or Shiite.

If it's not any of this two, I suppose he founded a new religion or heretical group, as the Qadianis, the Mutazilites and the Ahmadis.

[Rentarium]

Quranists follow Quran only, no Hadith.



I spent 2 years as a Shiite. Sistani was my go to for information. Even have Arabic calligraphy for a tattoo (regret this).

Stopped because The 12th Imam situation was never explained in a way I found reasonable.

I never learned anything from Sunni sources. Nothing at all.

[Great Islamic Empire]

Quranists follow Quran only, no Hadith.

So you mean a kind of Shiites, because Hadiths are not actually very important for Shiites.

[Great Islamic Empire]

I spent 2 years as a Shiite. Sistani was my go to for information. Even have Arabic calligraphy for a tattoo (regret this).

Are you iranian?

[Samonaemia]

Yes, Quranists are those who only follow and believe in the Quran without belonging to any sect or madhab nor taking into consideration of various interpretations and teachings of ulemas or the religious clergy.

[Great Islamic Empire]

Yes, Quranists are those who only follow and believe in the Quran without belonging to any sect or madhab nor taking into consideration of various interpretations and teachings of ulemas or the religious clergy.

Those who pretend to follow only the Quran are the Shiites. "Quranist" is a denomination that never appeared.

[Rentarium]

Quranists follow Quran only, no Hadith.

So you mean a kind of Shiites, because Hadiths are not actually very important for Shiites.

No. Hadith was very important for Shia, they just dont accept some that Sunnis use as reliable.

I knew a local Quranist. It was strange because there is alot of questions unanswered with Salat etc. and she just 'winged' it.

[Eireann Fae]

Yes, Quranists are those who only follow and believe in the Quran without belonging to any sect or madhab nor taking into consideration of various interpretations and teachings of ulemas or the religious clergy.

Those who pretend to follow only the Quran are the Shiites. "Quranist" is a denomination that never appeared.

What do you mean pretend? Is it impossible to follow the Quran with no regard for any madhabs or external teachings?

[Rentarium]

I spent 2 years as a Shiite. Sistani was my go to for information. Even have Arabic calligraphy for a tattoo (regret this).

Are you iranian?

Nope. Nor am I Paki, Syrian, or from Azerbaijan.

[Great Islamic Empire]

Those who pretend to follow only the Quran are the Shiites. "Quranist" is a denomination that never appeared.

What do you mean pretend? Is it impossible to follow the Quran with no regard for any madhabs or external teachings?

It has something...heretical.