Islam/Muslim Discussion Thread

[Mahdistan]

What do you people think about the implementation of "Sharia" law in Brunei (i.e. stoning for adultery, homosexuality and apostasy, among other things)?

As with areas of Pakistan and Nigeria, if you look at the Shari'ah court system in Brunei. They have it all wrong.

The amount of wirnesses is incorrect, The witnesses they do use are unqualified bringing no evidence to prove themselves, difference of scholarly opinion is never adressed when a ruling is brought up, customs are not judged appropriately, repentence is almost never recognized, testimony is often brought forth by bribery...it's an absolute mess. Basically they adhere to a mix of tribal custom, colonial law, Salafi dogma, The Sultan's whims, and cherrypicked instances from Classical Jurisprudence for their system of Shari'ah.

Indeed. Shariah should be something commendable, but Muslim leaders and many advocates for it seem to be under the impression that the more cruel it is, the better it is. The world expects us Muslims to either be secularists who are against Shariah altogether, or fundamentalists who desire death to everyone whom we dislike. In reality, true Shariah is neither of these things, and entails balance of punishment, and unrelenting loyalty to the Quran, not knee-jerk reactions by the worst of the scholars.

[Socialist Czechia]

Some people are also worried how much Quran/Shariah allows slavery as completely legit stuff, under certain circumstances. That Daesh's enslavement practise is actually legitimate muslim thing. Fact is, that slavery existed legally in many muslim countries almost to the end of 20th century, and unofficially it still exists in many places with mosques around.

[Ghuraba Al-Khorusani]

Some people are also worried how much Quran/Shariah allows slavery as completely legit stuff, under certain circumstances. That Daesh's enslavement practise is actually legitimate muslim thing. Fact is, that slavery existed legally in many muslim countries almost to the end of 20th century, and unofficially it still exists in many places with mosques around.

Its far more humane than a concentration camp

[Mahdistan]

Some people are also worried how much Quran/Shariah allows slavery as completely legit stuff, under certain circumstances. That Daesh's enslavement practise is actually legitimate muslim thing. Fact is, that slavery existed legally in many muslim countries almost to the end of 20th century, and unofficially it still exists in many places with mosques around.

Slavery is a good alternative to prison, in my opinion, and that is essentially how it's described; slaves should only be criminals or prisoners of war, as raiding an area for slaves goes against the rule that we may only fight in the defense of the faith or ourselves. And indeed, with the slaves that are taken, we are encouraged to release them for good behavior, especially during Ramadan.

[Ghuraba Al-Khorusani]

Some people are also worried how much Quran/Shariah allows slavery as completely legit stuff, under certain circumstances. That Daesh's enslavement practise is actually legitimate muslim thing. Fact is, that slavery existed legally in many muslim countries almost to the end of 20th century, and unofficially it still exists in many places with mosques around.

Slavery is a good alternative to prison, in my opinion, and that is essentially how it's described; slaves should only be criminals or prisoners of war, as raiding an area for slaves goes against the rule that we may only fight in the defense of the faith or ourselves. And indeed, with the slaves that are taken, we are encouraged to release them for good behavior, especially during Ramadan.

I agree completely slavery in Islam is nothing like America's in the 1860's

[Napkiraly]

Some people are also worried how much Quran/Shariah allows slavery as completely legit stuff, under certain circumstances. That Daesh's enslavement practise is actually legitimate muslim thing. Fact is, that slavery existed legally in many muslim countries almost to the end of 20th century, and unofficially it still exists in many places with mosques around.

Slavery is a good alternative to prison, in my opinion, and that is essentially how it's described; slaves should only be criminals or prisoners of war, as raiding an area for slaves goes against the rule that we may only fight in the defense of the faith or ourselves. And indeed, with the slaves that are taken, we are encouraged to release them for good behavior, especially during Ramadan.

How is owning a person as though they are a product a good alternative? Holy shit, listen to yourself.

[Napkiraly]

Slavery is a good alternative to prison, in my opinion, and that is essentially how it's described; slaves should only be criminals or prisoners of war, as raiding an area for slaves goes against the rule that we may only fight in the defense of the faith or ourselves. And indeed, with the slaves that are taken, we are encouraged to release them for good behavior, especially during Ramadan.

I agree completely slavery in Islam is nothing like America's in the 1860's

Most forms of slavery historically were nothing like America's, that doesn't make it fine.

[Ghuraba Al-Khorusani]

Slavery is a good alternative to prison, in my opinion, and that is essentially how it's described; slaves should only be criminals or prisoners of war, as raiding an area for slaves goes against the rule that we may only fight in the defense of the faith or ourselves. And indeed, with the slaves that are taken, we are encouraged to release them for good behavior, especially during Ramadan.

How is owning a person as though they are a product a good alternative? Holy shit, listen to yourself.

Gitmo is slavery in a sense and the people are treated worse than dirt, slavery in Islam is essentially like being a butler and requires very good treatment of slaves, slaves are even allowed to lead their masters in prayer if they're Muslim.

[Napkiraly]

How is owning a person as though they are a product a good alternative? Holy shit, listen to yourself.

Gitmo is slavery in a sense and the people are treated worse than dirt, slavery in Islam is essentially like being a butler and requires very good treatment of slaves, slaves are even allowed to lead their masters in prayer if they're Muslim.

Gitmo prisoners are not personal property and the abuses there, if you'll remember, have been quite controversial.

Not all slaves were treated like shit in the South; owning someone is not okay.

Really, some of the shit you guys are saying on here is something that pretty much encourages others to oppose Islam.

[Ghuraba Al-Khorusani]

Gitmo is slavery in a sense and the people are treated worse than dirt, slavery in Islam is essentially like being a butler and requires very good treatment of slaves, slaves are even allowed to lead their masters in prayer if they're Muslim.

Gitmo prisoners are not personal property and the abuses there, if you'll remember, have been quite controversial.

Not all slaves were treated like shit in the South; owning someone is not okay.

Really, some of the shit you guys are saying on here is something that pretty much encourages others to oppose Islam.

POW camps are concentration camps and are far worse than slavery will ever be. In Islam slaves are not property they have a lot of rights.

[Mahdistan]

Slavery is a good alternative to prison, in my opinion, and that is essentially how it's described; slaves should only be criminals or prisoners of war, as raiding an area for slaves goes against the rule that we may only fight in the defense of the faith or ourselves. And indeed, with the slaves that are taken, we are encouraged to release them for good behavior, especially during Ramadan.

How is owning a person as though they are a product a good alternative? Holy shit, listen to yourself.

How is sticking a man or a woman in a cage for years, decades even, humane or productive? Like Abu Jarir says, we must treat slaves well, not unlike how we'd treat paid servants. There are multitudes of advantage to gain from it; society gets a source of cheap labor, a person serves their sentence to that society either for committing a crime or fighting war against it, and that person gets work experience, as well as an active lifestyle that they may not get in prison.

[Ghuraba Al-Khorusani]

How is owning a person as though they are a product a good alternative? Holy shit, listen to yourself.

How is sticking a man or a woman in a cage for years, decades even, humane or productive? Like Abu Jarir says, we must treat slaves well, not unlike how we'd treat paid servants. There are multitudes of advantage to gain from it; society gets a source of cheap labor, a person serves their sentence to that society either for committing a crime or fighting war against it, and that person gets work experience, as well as an active lifestyle that they may not get in prison.

Islam also encourages people to free their slaves at some point.

[Mahdistan]

Gitmo is slavery in a sense and the people are treated worse than dirt, slavery in Islam is essentially like being a butler and requires very good treatment of slaves, slaves are even allowed to lead their masters in prayer if they're Muslim.

Gitmo prisoners are not personal property and the abuses there, if you'll remember, have been quite controversial.

Not all slaves were treated like shit in the South; owning someone is not okay.

Really, some of the shit you guys are saying on here is something that pretty much encourages others to oppose Islam.

If it was something a person was born into, than yes, and Islam encouraged an end to this practice. But we're not talking about enslavement for something people can't help; this is enslavement for causing harm to society, and paying back a debt to the people.

[Sanctissima]

Gitmo is slavery in a sense and the people are treated worse than dirt, slavery in Islam is essentially like being a butler and requires very good treatment of slaves, slaves are even allowed to lead their masters in prayer if they're Muslim.

Gitmo prisoners are not personal property and the abuses there, if you'll remember, have been quite controversial.

Not all slaves were treated like shit in the South; owning someone is not okay.

Really, some of the shit you guys are saying on here is something that pretty much encourages others to oppose Islam.

He's Wahhabi, a practitioner of the religious sect that spawned Salafism, which in turn gave rise to terrorist groups like Al-Qaeda, ISIS and Boko Haram.

Did you honestly expect anything sensible from him?

[Mahdistan]

Gitmo is slavery in a sense and the people are treated worse than dirt, slavery in Islam is essentially like being a butler and requires very good treatment of slaves, slaves are even allowed to lead their masters in prayer if they're Muslim.

Really, some of the shit you guys are saying on here is something that pretty much encourages others to oppose Islam.

I'd also be interested in knowing what else I've said that turns people away.

[Ghuraba Al-Khorusani]

Really, some of the shit you guys are saying on here is something that pretty much encourages others to oppose Islam.

I'd also be interested in knowing what else I've said that turns people away.

Nothing bro these people will never understand justly.

[New confederate ramenia]

Gitmo prisoners are not personal property and the abuses there, if you'll remember, have been quite controversial.

Not all slaves were treated like shit in the South; owning someone is not okay.

Really, some of the shit you guys are saying on here is something that pretty much encourages others to oppose Islam.

He's Wahhabi, a practitioner of the religious sect that spawned Salafism, which in turn gave rise to terrorist groups like Al-Qaeda, ISIS and Boko Haram.

Did you honestly expect anything sensible from him?

You're using an ad hominem because you can't argue against slavery?

Gitmo prisoners are not personal property and the abuses there, if you'll remember, have been quite controversial.

Not all slaves were treated like shit in the South; owning someone is not okay.

Really, some of the shit you guys are saying on here is something that pretty much encourages others to oppose Islam.

If it was something a person was born into, than yes, and Islam encouraged an end to this practice. But we're not talking about enslavement for something people can't help; this is enslavement for causing harm to society, and paying back a debt to the people.

Ideally it would be something like that. But the reality is that in Islamic countries (Mauritania for an example) there are people born into a class of slaves.

[Ghuraba Al-Khorusani]

Everything in Islam is humane, from the treatment of animals to laws of warfare.

[The Nuclear Fist]

How is owning a person as though they are a product a good alternative? Holy shit, listen to yourself.

Gitmo is slavery in a sense and the people are treated worse than dirt, slavery in Islam is essentially like being a butler and requires very good treatment of slaves, slaves are even allowed to lead their masters in prayer if they're Muslim.

Muslim slavers also routinely castrate their slaves, and abuse them to the point of near death.

Never mind the fact that anyone who practices slavery is themself a criminal, and the worst kind of shit eating cunt on earth, deserving nothing but cruel death.

[Mahdistan]

If it was something a person was born into, than yes, and Islam encouraged an end to this practice. But we're not talking about enslavement for something people can't help; this is enslavement for causing harm to society, and paying back a debt to the people.

Ideally it would be something like that. But the reality is that in Islamic countries (Mauritania for an example) there are people born into a class of slaves.

Unfortunately, this is what has come of it. However, I think it's still something that should still be pushed for within societies following Shariah, just very carefully monitored, and heavily punished if abused.

[Sanctissima]

He's Wahhabi, a practitioner of the religious sect that spawned Salafism, which in turn gave rise to terrorist groups like Al-Qaeda, ISIS and Boko Haram.

Did you honestly expect anything sensible from him?

You're using an ad hominem because you can't argue against slavery?

It's not so much an ad hominem as it is a simple statement of facts.

Ghuraba is a living embodiment of everything that is wrong with Wahhabism, his views on slavery included. Since his views on slavery are directly related to Wahhabism, I think it's appropriate to criticize the latter.

[Napkiraly]

Everything in Islam is humane, from the treatment of animals to laws of warfare.

Yeah, chopping off hands, stoning for adultery, and beheading for apostasy are so humane.

[The Nuclear Fist]

Everything in Islam is humane, from the treatment of animals to laws of warfare.

Is that why islamic states and militants are the most cruel and brutal in all matters of life and war?

[New confederate ramenia]

Gitmo is slavery in a sense and the people are treated worse than dirt, slavery in Islam is essentially like being a butler and requires very good treatment of slaves, slaves are even allowed to lead their masters in prayer if they're Muslim.

Muslim slavers also routinely castrate their slaves, and abuse them to the point of near death.

Never mind the fact that anyone who practices slavery is themself a criminal, and the worst kind of shit eating cunt on earth, deserving nothing but cruel death.

Christian here. Castration of slaves prevents a slave class from growing and prevents the economy from becoming dependent on slave labor and oppression.

You're saying that slavery is illegal, but the argument is about both should it be illegal and is it immoral. Your claim, while true, is irrelevant.

[Napkiraly]

Really, some of the shit you guys are saying on here is something that pretty much encourages others to oppose Islam.

I'd also be interested in knowing what else I've said that turns people away.

This alone would be enough. You're not the only person here however spewing about how great implementing Sharia would be.