Islam/Muslim Discussion Thread

[Mahdistan]

Not if that money was prevented from going to officials. It should be pooled for purely public works, which is why transparency is so important.

I just said it would be free penal labor. Meaning that instead of having to contract out to a construction outfit, they could use penal labor to do the job without having to pay anyone or contribute to their pension or benefits. Given that elected officials are all about trying to cut costs wherever possible for popularity points, it only further encourages them.

But that's one of many criticisms about modern islamic practices. A secondary one being that islamic economics are essentially incoherent nonsense.

I don't know what the government would want to build that would benefit them directly. But, that could be solved, too, in keeping the judicial sector and executive sector separate; politicians would have to buy their own prisoners to build anything, and the judicial sector would have nothing to build, as prisons already exist and wouldn't need to be expanded since most prisoners would be out working, and building and maintaining courthouses could be handled by private citizens, or if need be, courts can be held in non-judicial buildings.

[Jochistan]

Not if that money was prevented from going to officials. It should be pooled for purely public works, which is why transparency is so important.

I just said it would be free penal labor. Meaning that instead of having to contract out to a construction outfit, they could use penal labor to do the job without having to pay anyone or contribute to their pension or benefits. Given that elected officials are all about trying to cut costs wherever possible for popularity points, it only further encourages them.

But that's one of many criticisms about modern islamic practices. A secondary one being that islamic economics are essentially incoherent nonsense.

What Islamic economics? The Qur'an and authentic Sunnah are pretty vague on terms of economics.

Unless charity and saving money and avoiding usury is nonsense.

[Jochistan]

So me thinking prisoners should work as part of their sentence is an extremist view...

You...you're serious...you're actually serious.

But even if it technically would count as slavery, personally I wouldn't care.

Not just this, but also your support for a religious based legal system. Once again, sure you're not Daesh or AQ. So congrats on that. You're the Phelps family or any other sort of American evangelist that calls for the Bible to be the law of the USA. Which is not a moderate position.

Am I still an Extremist?

[The Archregimancy]

The Sultan himself perhaps not; his fondness for gold and luxury cars aside, he's never been caught up in any scandals involving sex or drugs.

His brother Jefri 'lick him clean' Bolkiah, absolutely.

It tends to be the collateral family members who are the problem in these cases rather than the ruler himself; examples abound across the remaining monarchies of the Islamic world. Among the actual rulers, few want a direct repeat of Farouk.

What happened to King Farouk? The Wikipedia article on him isn't too detailed.

He was notorious for a level of public personal extravagance that wasn't just alienating for Egyptians, but which often seemed to be active baiting given the poverty of his subjects.

His taste in a particular style of heavily gilded and ornately carved furniture based on the style of Louis XV became known as 'Louis-Farouk', and he ended up eating himself to death after his exile. He was once described as a 'stomach with legs', and collapsed and died at the table of a French restaurant in Rome after a typically monstrous meal. On top of that, he was notoriously corrupt.

That said, Louis-Farouk lives on across the Middle East as a sort of 'murderous third world dictator chic' style heavy on the gold.

In any case, most monarchs in the Islamic world since have toned it down a bit. The Sultan of Brunei admittedly loves his gold-plated Rolls Royce and vintage car collection, but he doesn't seem to be personally corrupt, and at least (a crucial difference with Farouk here) his country is also wealthy. His brother, on the other hand, is a walking disaster.

[Ghuraba Al-Khorusani]

Quick Arabic lesson it's Banu Qura3dha not Qurayza, pronounced like RamaDHan or ADHan or Abu DHabiy, in English aDHere.

[Jochistan]

Liberals tend to be sensitive? Please, people can't even draw pictures of Muhammad without their being global fucking outrage over it.

A PICTURE!?
TRRRRIIIIIGGGGERRRRED!!!!

If there was global outrage every time an insulting picture of Muhammad was made or even half the times. Or a fifth. Or a tenth.
There would be a global outrage on the subject every hour.

[Major-Tom]

A PICTURE!?
TRRRRIIIIIGGGGERRRRED!!!!

If there was global outrage every time an insulting picture of Muhammad was made or even half the times. Or a fifth. Or a tenth.
There would be a global outrage on the subject every hour.

Does nobody remember the mass protests in the Islamic world because some Danish guy drew a historic figure?

[Jochistan]

But I'm explaining my position, and repeatedly stating that abuses are completely un-Islamic. Prisons are a system for punishing and abusing; what I'm suggesting is a system for healing and restitution.

It depends on the prison system; personally I'm for rehabilitating for all but the worst criminals. But even the worst criminals don't deserve to become someone else's property. Yet abuses happen all the time because slavery creates a system where one views they can do anything to their property.

"B-b-but not real Muslim!!! D:" Yeah, no true Scotsman argument once again when it comes to horrific shit being committed by Muslims. I don't deny Stalin as an atheist for his anti-religion stances that lead to horrific things; I don't deny that the Crusaders were Christians when they butchered the population of Jerusalem.

I wouldn't be surprised if you deny Modernist Muslims far more liberal than me or Muslims that agree with all of your views are real Muslims though.

That's a favorite tactic of Militant Liberals.

[Mahdistan]

If there was global outrage every time an insulting picture of Muhammad was made or even half the times. Or a fifth. Or a tenth.
There would be a global outrage on the subject every hour.

Does nobody remember the mass protests in the Islamic world because some Danish guy drew a historic figure?

That was because a big media figure did it, and they did it with the most malicious of intent. What he's saying is, people do it all the time, but people don't get worked up about that like claims are made that we would.

[Jochistan]

If there was global outrage every time an insulting picture of Muhammad was made or even half the times. Or a fifth. Or a tenth.
There would be a global outrage on the subject every hour.

Does nobody remember the mass protests in the Islamic world because some Danish guy drew a historic figure?

Yeah. I don't care if people want to protest it. People can protest all they want.

But his killing was barbaric.

[Ghuraba Al-Khorusani]

I get very angry when there is the slightest disrespect towards my most beloved Prophet Muhammad whom may Allah cover in blessings.

[Jochistan]

There were mass protests throughout the western world when Dogma (great movie) and The Golden Compass (terrible movie) came out.

There are mass protests throughout the western world when an important figure makes an allegedly racist or sexist comment.

[Alistan]

Guys, I will decide whether to live nationstates or not based on this announcement because of my personnel decision that is mine and mine alone:

I am not a Muslim anymore, but an agnostic

C ya guys, this is no joke

[Mahdistan]

I get very angry when there is the slightest disrespect towards my most beloved Prophet Muhammad whom may Allah cover in blessings.

And rightfully so, people disrespect him because they are ignorant, and arrogant. But, like the Quran says, we are only responsible for our own sins. Warn them, but let them sin. It is to their own detriment in the end.

[Mahdistan]

Guys, I will decide whether to live nationstates or not based on this announcement because of my personnel decision that is mine and mine alone:

I am not a Muslim anymore, but an agnostic

C ya guys, this is no joke

Why have you lost faith?

[The Grey Wolf]

I get very angry when there is the slightest disrespect towards my most beloved Prophet Muhammad whom may Allah cover in blessings.

And rightfully so, people disrespect him because they are ignorant, and arrogant. But, like the Quran says, we are only responsible for our own sins. Warn them, but let them sin. It is to their own detriment in the end.

Or people find it ridiculous how is he elevated to an almost god-like status, and mock him as a result. It's rather ridiculous to consider simple mockery a sin.

[Mahdistan]

And rightfully so, people disrespect him because they are ignorant, and arrogant. But, like the Quran says, we are only responsible for our own sins. Warn them, but let them sin. It is to their own detriment in the end.

Or people find it ridiculous how is he elevated to an almost god-like status, and mock him as a result. It's rather ridiculous to consider simple mockery a sin.

It is ignorant to mock him, because he acted selflessly, and did everything he did for his people. It is arrogant to believe anything we can't understand is simple enough that we can mock the concept.

[Ghuraba Al-Khorusani]

At times I cry reading about the death of him(SAAWS).

[Jochistan]

Guys, I will decide whether to live nationstates or not based on this announcement because of my personnel decision that is mine and mine alone:

I am not a Muslim anymore, but an agnostic

C ya guys, this is no joke

No need to leave.

But may God guide you, Brother.

[The Nuclear Fist]

It depends on the prison system; personally I'm for rehabilitating for all but the worst criminals. But even the worst criminals don't deserve to become someone else's property. Yet abuses happen all the time because slavery creates a system where one views they can do anything to their property.

"B-b-but not real Muslim!!! D:" Yeah, no true Scotsman argument once again when it comes to horrific shit being committed by Muslims. I don't deny Stalin as an atheist for his anti-religion stances that lead to horrific things; I don't deny that the Crusaders were Christians when they butchered the population of Jerusalem.

I wouldn't be surprised if you deny Modernist Muslims far more liberal than me or Muslims that agree with all of your views are real Muslims though.

That's a favorite tactic of Militant Liberals.

I'm not Napkiraly of course, but I'm not really in the business of saying people aren't muslims. If someone holds the same political views of me, and also holds that islam is the one true religion with the islamic interpretation of god as the one true deity and Mohammad as its prophet, then I'm not going to say that they aren't just because they don't lop off apostate hands and castrate their slaves.

[Jochistan]

And rightfully so, people disrespect him because they are ignorant, and arrogant. But, like the Quran says, we are only responsible for our own sins. Warn them, but let them sin. It is to their own detriment in the end.

Or people find it ridiculous how is he elevated to an almost god-like status, and mock him as a result. It's rather ridiculous to consider simple mockery a sin.

Depends on the intent if it's intelligently done I'd have less of a problem. But it like never is. It's always the same old "lol pedo rapist warlord n*gger XD".

You have a freedom of speech. It's between you and God at that point. I don't care.

But I'd like to see one time the mockery is done in any way besides that.

[Jochistan]

I wouldn't be surprised if you deny Modernist Muslims far more liberal than me or Muslims that agree with all of your views are real Muslims though.

That's a favorite tactic of Militant Liberals.

I'm not Napkiraly of course, but I'm not really in the business of saying people aren't muslims. If someone holds the same political views of me, and also holds that islam is the one true religion with the islamic interpretation of god as the one true deity and Mohammad as its prophet, then I'm not going to say that they aren't just because they don't lop off apostate hands and castrate their slaves.

Very few critics of Islam are like that.

But cool, I guess.

[The Alma Mater]

I get very angry when there is the slightest disrespect towards my most beloved Prophet Muhammad whom may Allah cover in blessings.

Are you that cab driver ?

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/as ... xi-7706191

[Napkiraly]

It depends on the prison system; personally I'm for rehabilitating for all but the worst criminals. But even the worst criminals don't deserve to become someone else's property. Yet abuses happen all the time because slavery creates a system where one views they can do anything to their property.

"B-b-but not real Muslim!!! D:" Yeah, no true Scotsman argument once again when it comes to horrific shit being committed by Muslims. I don't deny Stalin as an atheist for his anti-religion stances that lead to horrific things; I don't deny that the Crusaders were Christians when they butchered the population of Jerusalem.

I wouldn't be surprised if you deny Modernist Muslims far more liberal than me or Muslims that agree with all of your views are real Muslims though.

That's a favorite tactic of Militant Liberals.

I don't deny that they're real Muslims. I don't deny you're a Muslim. What I'm tired of is this rhetoric that if a Muslim does something bad or breaks one of the rules that no longer makes them a Muslim. It is No True Scotsman since it's basically going "Well, no true Muslim would do XYZ and thus they are not Muslim". Crusaders went against many of the teachings in the Bible and committed horrific atrocities, but that doesn't mean they were no longer Christian. I have a similar problem with people from other faiths, non-religious, and political ideologies.

Not just this, but also your support for a religious based legal system. Once again, sure you're not Daesh or AQ. So congrats on that. You're the Phelps family or any other sort of American evangelist that calls for the Bible to be the law of the USA. Which is not a moderate position.

Am I still an Extremist?

On the issue of slavery? No.
On the issue of type of legal system to adopt? Yes. I consider wanting a religious based legal system to not be a moderate position and to be rather radical and to be rather extreme. I admit that you are not as radical as the likes of Daesh and the version of Sharia you would like to see is not as deplorable but I find by no means to be moderate. Moderate in comparison to the likes of Daesh, yes. But overall, no.

[Jochistan]

I don't deny that they're real Muslims. I don't deny you're a Muslim. What I'm tired of is this rhetoric that if a Muslim does something bad or breaks one of the rules that no longer makes them a Muslim. It is No True Scotsman since it's basically going "Well, no true Muslim would do XYZ and thus they are not Muslim". Crusaders went against many of the teachings in the Bible and committed horrific atrocities, but that doesn't mean they were no longer Christian. I have a similar problem with people from other faiths, non-religious, and political ideologies.

I'm tired of it too. Think it happens much more with Anti Islam Crusaders than Muslims against ISIS.