Islam/Muslim Discussion Thread

[Ny Nynorsk]

Some religions are moderated, some have gone through reformation. Not Islam. Islam is a religion that encourages LGBT abuse, a lack of respect for women, martyrdom, literal batshit insanity, etc. What's worse are the Muslim immigrants in Europe who have entirely failed to immigrate. Islam needs serious reform before I can even consider the Islamic world a civilization.

[The Beast of Boston]

Some religions are moderated, some have gone through reformation. Not Islam. Islam is a religion that encourages LGBT abuse, a lack of respect for women, martyrdom, literal batshit insanity, etc. What's worse are the Muslim immigrants in Europe who have entirely failed to immigrate. Islam needs serious reform before I can even consider the Islamic world a civilization.

It's not that they've just failed to integrate, it's that they seem to be both physically incapable and outright opposed to the idea.

[The Romulan Republic]

Some religions are moderated, some have gone through reformation. Not Islam. Islam is a religion that encourages LGBT abuse, a lack of respect for women, martyrdom, literal batshit insanity, etc. What's worse are the Muslim immigrants in Europe who have entirely failed to immigrate. Islam needs serious reform before I can even consider the Islamic world a civilization.

It's not that they've just failed to integrate, it's that they seem to be both physically incapable and outright opposed to the idea.

You are making a massive generalization about millions of people.

Have you polled every Muslim on the planet? Hell, do you even know any Muslims?

And "physically incapable" is basically stating that Muslims are biologically inferior, which is so bigoted and absurd it scarcely needs to be ridiculed.

[Threlizdun]

I'm in a weird place regarding Islam. I've actually genuinely thought about converting recently. It's a strange thought to me because I still see absolutely no evidence for the existence of a deity and haven't really wavered much in my atheism. Still, I've just felt this overwhelming feeling of connection to the faith that I haven't felt to a religion in a long time. In all honesty it is likely a result of me taking a class on it and studying the faith at the same time where I was under immense stress and had undergone a great deal of personal trauma. Statistically speaking this is the time someone would be most likely to convert. Still, rationalizing that and accepting it are two different things. I'm in this weird limbo where part of me really would like to convert for the sense of Ummah and ethical structure while the other part of my contests that I would have to abandon most of what I believe about the nature of the universe. It will probably pass, but I could be pretty easily pushed into it at this point.

[The Third Nova Terra of Scrin]

I'm in a weird place regarding Islam. I've actually genuinely thought about converting recently. It's a strange thought to me because I still see absolutely no evidence for the existence of a deity and haven't really wavered much in my atheism. Still, I've just felt this overwhelming feeling of connection to the faith that I haven't felt to a religion in a long time. In all honesty it is likely a result of me taking a class on it and studying the faith at the same time where I was under immense stress and had undergone a great deal of personal trauma. Statistically speaking this is the time someone would be most likely to convert. Still, rationalizing that and accepting it are two different things. I'm in this weird limbo where part of me really would like to convert for the sense of Ummah and ethical structure while the other part of my contests that I would have to abandon most of what I believe about the nature of the universe. It will probably pass, but I could be pretty easily pushed into it at this point.

Study for yourself my friend, and decide whether Islam is truly the best faith for your life. Take your time, I do not like you doing a decision you will later regret.

[The Third Nova Terra of Scrin]

It's not that they've just failed to integrate, it's that they seem to be both physically incapable and outright opposed to the idea.

You are making a massive generalization about millions of people.

Have you polled every Muslim on the planet? Hell, do you even know any Muslims?

And "physically incapable" is basically stating that Muslims are biologically inferior, which is so bigoted and absurd it scarcely needs to be ridiculed.

Reading the recent news would be a good start.

[Nuclear Best Korea]

You are making a massive generalization about millions of people.

Have you polled every Muslim on the planet? Hell, do you even know any Muslims?

And "physically incapable" is basically stating that Muslims are biologically inferior, which is so bigoted and absurd it scarcely needs to be ridiculed.

Reading the recent news would be a good start.

Well, yeah.

You take several hundred million people, put them in nations with excessively poor infrastructure, corrupt/repressive governments, lack of proper services and education, and then proceed to use those same nations as a giant battle ground over natural resources, and obviously a few are going to become a bit extreme.

[Kubra]

I'm in a weird place regarding Islam. I've actually genuinely thought about converting recently. It's a strange thought to me because I still see absolutely no evidence for the existence of a deity and haven't really wavered much in my atheism. Still, I've just felt this overwhelming feeling of connection to the faith that I haven't felt to a religion in a long time. In all honesty it is likely a result of me taking a class on it and studying the faith at the same time where I was under immense stress and had undergone a great deal of personal trauma. Statistically speaking this is the time someone would be most likely to convert. Still, rationalizing that and accepting it are two different things. I'm in this weird limbo where part of me really would like to convert for the sense of Ummah and ethical structure while the other part of my contests that I would have to abandon most of what I believe about the nature of the universe. It will probably pass, but I could be pretty easily pushed into it at this point.

dude if you're considering converting to a religion purely for community that's almost as bad as dudes joining sunni militia's for kicks and figuring out the qur'an on the plane
If you're gonna do something ridiculous like that in response to stress recite Nechayev's catechism's and fancy yourself the second coming of Ravachol, or go primmo. You won't have to subscribe to a worldview you don't actually hold, and with the latter you can have all the imagined community you want.

[The Third Nova Terra of Scrin]

Reading the recent news would be a good start.

Well, yeah.

You take several hundred million people, put them in nations with excessively poor infrastructure, corrupt/repressive governments, lack of proper services and education, and then proceed to use those same nations as a giant battle ground over natural resources, and obviously a few are going to become a bit extreme.

[The Internationale plays as background music]

[Kubra]

You are making a massive generalization about millions of people.

Have you polled every Muslim on the planet? Hell, do you even know any Muslims?

And "physically incapable" is basically stating that Muslims are biologically inferior, which is so bigoted and absurd it scarcely needs to be ridiculed.

Reading the recent news would be a good start.

bloc quote from saint brechus

In theory, the Syrian Sunni have a huge pool of recruits. There are about 17 million Sunni Arabs in Syria. If you look at the country’s age structure, you can see that there are roughly five million Sunni Arab “men of military age,” roughly 15-40. (15 may seem young, and 40 old, for conventional armies, but in sectarian war people much younger and older are common.)

Five million men is potentially a huge military force. And the number may be bigger, since the Sunni who join the various Sunni militias are drawn heavily from rural, lower-class backgrounds, where big families are common. Even if you only consider the core fighting-age males, the 15-24 year old testosterone-poisoning cases as yet untainted by empathy, you still get an astonishing figure of available manpower for the Syrian Sunni. In theory, they would be able to field more than two million men if they only recruited these young dumb guys.

And there are no disqualifying factors that would neutralize this numerical advantage. Sometimes the more numerous tribe is simply terrorized into docility, but that’s not the case here. The Syrian Sunni were the traditionally dominant tribe under the long Ottoman rule; Alawite domination of Syria is a very recent and very odd accident, a result of France’s colonial strategy of taking the most despised local tribe and using it as a vengeful, loyal proxy army. Sunni Syrians, unlike the world’s many helot tribes that may have numbers but not morale, have always considered themselves the rightful rulers of the country. They’ve never really been afraid of the Alawites.

If Syria’s Sunni Arabs had managed to mobilize effectively, they could have wiped out the Alawites long ago. But very few Sunni Syrians are actually willing to fight in this war, maybe as few as two or three per cent of those “men of military age.”

tl;dr the amount of sunni's fighting in ISIS and various other militias amount to next to nothing compared to the general population.

[Threlizdun]

I'm in a weird place regarding Islam. I've actually genuinely thought about converting recently. It's a strange thought to me because I still see absolutely no evidence for the existence of a deity and haven't really wavered much in my atheism. Still, I've just felt this overwhelming feeling of connection to the faith that I haven't felt to a religion in a long time. In all honesty it is likely a result of me taking a class on it and studying the faith at the same time where I was under immense stress and had undergone a great deal of personal trauma. Statistically speaking this is the time someone would be most likely to convert. Still, rationalizing that and accepting it are two different things. I'm in this weird limbo where part of me really would like to convert for the sense of Ummah and ethical structure while the other part of my contests that I would have to abandon most of what I believe about the nature of the universe. It will probably pass, but I could be pretty easily pushed into it at this point.

dude if you're considering converting to a religion purely for community that's almost as bad as dudes joining sunni militia's for kicks and figuring out the qur'an on the plane
If you're gonna do something ridiculous like that in response to stress recite Nechayev's catechism's and fancy yourself the second coming of Ravachol, or go primmo. You won't have to subscribe to a worldview you don't actually hold, and with the latter you can have all the imagined community you want.

It's not purely the community. I rather highly respect many of the ideals of Islam. Much of its ethical foundation is appealing. The theology is the only issue I greatly differ on, but even still I have a strong attraction to it. No, just considering the possibility of converting to a certain faith is in no way the same as joining radical militias.

[The Romulan Republic]

You are making a massive generalization about millions of people.

Have you polled every Muslim on the planet? Hell, do you even know any Muslims?

And "physically incapable" is basically stating that Muslims are biologically inferior, which is so bigoted and absurd it scarcely needs to be ridiculed.

Reading the recent news would be a good start.

Nice glib, contentless, irrelevant response.

Yes, you can point to lots of stories of Muslims doing bad things. It does not follow that every single Muslim, or even most Muslims, are guilty, much less that Muslims are biologically inferior.

You know, take any large group of people on the planet, and I can find examples of barbarism.

[The Third Nova Terra of Scrin]

Reading the recent news would be a good start.

Nice glib, contentless, irrelevant response.

Yes, you can point to lots of stories of Muslims doing bad things. It does not follow that every single Muslim, or even most Muslims, are guilty, much less that Muslims are biologically inferior.

You know, take any large group of people on the planet, and I can find examples of barbarism.

Still does not change the cases of failed Muslim immigrants integration.

[Threlizdun]

Nice glib, contentless, irrelevant response.

Yes, you can point to lots of stories of Muslims doing bad things. It does not follow that every single Muslim, or even most Muslims, are guilty, much less that Muslims are biologically inferior.

You know, take any large group of people on the planet, and I can find examples of barbarism.

Still does not change the cases of failed Muslim immigrants integration.

Considering the reactions of many members of the predominant ethnic group to their presence, is that really that surprising? Besides, demands for assimilation are ridiculous in the first place. So long as people are causing no harm, they should be able to do as they please.

[The Romulan Republic]

Indeed.

[Rhwngafonydd]

I'm a Shi'ite Muslim.

[Iberonia]

That is all I have to contribute to a discussion about Islam.

[Kubra]

dude if you're considering converting to a religion purely for community that's almost as bad as dudes joining sunni militia's for kicks and figuring out the qur'an on the plane
If you're gonna do something ridiculous like that in response to stress recite Nechayev's catechism's and fancy yourself the second coming of Ravachol, or go primmo. You won't have to subscribe to a worldview you don't actually hold, and with the latter you can have all the imagined community you want.

It's not purely the community. I rather highly respect many of the ideals of Islam. Much of its ethical foundation is appealing. The theology is the only issue I greatly differ on, but even still I have a strong attraction to it. No, just considering the possibility of converting to a certain faith is in no way the same as joining radical militias.

You're right, it's not the same, cuz joining a hella sick militia/illegalist gang/primmo camp is way better. Besides, you're gonna be the lone anabaptist in the midst of a counter-reformation.

Which ideals?

[The Third Nova Terra of Scrin]

Still does not change the cases of failed Muslim immigrants integration.

Considering the reactions of many members of the predominant ethnic group to their presence, is that really that surprising? Besides, demands for assimilation are ridiculous in the first place. So long as people are causing no harm, they should be able to do as they please.

Not everyone had problems with immigrants. Last time I checked the news, I learned that Americans are going fine with Chinese, Indian and Filipino immigrants. And China, India and the Philippines are the Top 4 senders of immigrants to the United States.

[The Third Nova Terra of Scrin]

It's not purely the community. I rather highly respect many of the ideals of Islam. Much of its ethical foundation is appealing. The theology is the only issue I greatly differ on, but even still I have a strong attraction to it. No, just considering the possibility of converting to a certain faith is in no way the same as joining radical militias.

You're right, it's not the same, cuz joining a hella sick militia/illegalist gang/primmo camp is way better. Besides, you're gonna be the lone anabaptist in the midst of a counter-reformation.

Which ideals?

Say your words in a better tone, you're close to flaming here.

[The Alma Mater]

Still does not change the cases of failed Muslim immigrants integration.

Considering the reactions of many members of the predominant ethnic group to their presence, is that really that surprising?

You mean welcoming them with open arms, changing laws to accomodate their dietary and praying requirements, aiding the reuniting of families by paying for the trip,full social security and education benefits for their children etc. etc ?

Yes. Somewhat surprising. And over the past few decades that surprise has indeed changed to dislike.

[Kubra]

You're right, it's not the same, cuz joining a hella sick militia/illegalist gang/primmo camp is way better. Besides, you're gonna be the lone anabaptist in the midst of a counter-reformation.

Which ideals?

Say your words in a better tone, you're close to flaming here.

lol, how do you figure that?

Considering the reactions of many members of the predominant ethnic group to their presence, is that really that surprising? Besides, demands for assimilation are ridiculous in the first place. So long as people are causing no harm, they should be able to do as they please.

Not everyone had problems with immigrants. Last time I checked the news, I learned that Americans are going fine with Chinese, Indian and Filipino immigrants. And China, India and the Philippines are the Top 4 senders of immigrants to the United States.

lol that's cuz us pinoys are basically pre-assimilated when it comes to north america

take a trip to Singapore, you'll see us framed as the big ethnic problem.

[The Romulan Republic]

(Image)


That is all I have to contribute to a discussion about Islam.

1. Statistics are known to be unreliable. In any case, I very much doubt that they actually polled every Muslim in the world. So I figure that they're combining results from various polls and/or they're extrapolating and may be off.

2. I see a wide range of opinions with the pro-murder opinions being a distinct minority.

3. Even if a majority of Muslims have been indoctrinated to think vile things, that does not mean all of them think that way or that all of them are bad people. People should be judged as individuals.

4. A lot of non-Muslims think some pretty horrible things too.

Now, if you want to disagree with Islam, that's fine with me. I don't demand that you agree with beliefs that are not your own. They're not mine, for that matter. But Muslims are individual people and should be treated accordingly. And as with all people, their religion, right or wrong or a bit of both, is only part of what defines them.

[Iberonia]

(Image)


That is all I have to contribute to a discussion about Islam.

1. Statistics are known to be unreliable. In any case, I very much doubt that they actually polled every Muslim in the world. So I figure that they're combining results from various polls and/or they're extrapolating and may be off.

2. I see a wide range of opinions with the pro-murder opinions being a distinct minority.

3. Even if a majority of Muslims have been indoctrinated to think vile things, that does not mean all of them think that way or that all of them are bad people. People should be judged as individuals.

4. A lot of non-Muslims think some pretty horrible things too.

Now, if you want to disagree with Islam, that's fine with me. I don't demand that you agree with beliefs that are not your own. But Muslims are individual people and should be treated accordingly. And as with all people, their religion, right or wrong or a bit of both, is only part of what defines them.

Statistics are reliable, you don't need to poll everyone to get accurate results. That is statistics 101. Pew gets very good stats and has a reputation of reliability in accumulating and analyzing them. Islam is a danger to the West and needs to be handled harshly, there is no alternative. I refuse to let that degenerate ideology make it's way into the U.S after seeing it destroy the home of my grandparents.

[The Alma Mater]

(Image)


That is all I have to contribute to a discussion about Islam.

1. Statistics are known to be unreliable. In any case, I very much doubt that they actually polled every Muslim in the world. So I figure that they're combining results from various polls and/or they're extrapolating and may be off.

True, but they do fit the results of immigrant pollings in European nations. So while perhaps the overwhelming majority of muslims globally disagrees with these, disagreement is not what people who will actually talk to muslims in Europe are likely to hear.
Did I mention muslims have a PR problem ?