Islam/Muslim Discussion Thread

[Puerto Tyranus]

Ah, hey. It's me again. I wanna know, if the Dome of the Rock is where Muhammad (died? ascended?), what is the actual historical importance of Mecca? Is that where Gabriel recited the Qu'ran to Muhammad or is it something else entirely?

The Dome of the Rock was connected with the spiritual journey that Muhammad had and, after the Muslims migrated out of Mecca after a long period of persecution, for a while the early Muslims prayed in that direction (they resumed praying in the direction of Mecca once they were allowed to return).

The significance of Mecca is largely historical –– it was basically the epicenter of Islam –– and partially religious, since Muslims pray in the direction of the Kaaba, which is in Mecca.

Thanks for the link and the info.

[Czechanada]

Ah, hey. It's me again. I wanna know, if the Dome of the Rock is where Muhammad (died? ascended?), what is the actual historical importance of Mecca? Is that where Gabriel recited the Qu'ran to Muhammad or is it something else entirely?

The Dome of the Rock was connected with the spiritual journey that Muhammad had and, after the Muslims migrated out of Mecca after a long period of persecution, for a while the early Muslims prayed in that direction (they resumed praying in the direction of Mecca once they were allowed to return).

The significance of Mecca is largely historical –– it was basically the epicenter of Islam –– and partially religious, since Muslims pray in the direction of the Kaaba, which is in Mecca.

I would argue that Madinah was the epicenter of Islam.

[Islamic Commune]

I would argue that Madinah was the epicenter of Islam.

Indeed it was. It was the area where the first Islamic state developed, and I believe either Madinah or Mecca used to be the capital of the first Caliphate.

As of now, both cities still retain importance in Islamic history, and Mecca is a spiritual center, but both cities stopped being political centres over a millennium ago.

[Seljuq Kyiv]

Does he have a dick? oh, come on dude.

Dose he have a Vagina? And it is said Allah is a male figure.

To attribute physical properties to God, much less a sexual organ, is blasphemy.

God is not of a gender, but to call Him It would be rude, and They implies a plural.

[Seljuq Kyiv]

Ah, hey. It's me again. I wanna know, if the Dome of the Rock is where Muhammad (died? ascended?), what is the actual historical importance of Mecca? Is that where Gabriel recited the Qu'ran to Muhammad or is it something else entirely?

The Dome of the Rock was connected with the spiritual journey that Muhammad had and, after the Muslims migrated out of Mecca after a long period of persecution, for a while the early Muslims prayed in that direction (they resumed praying in the direction of Mecca once they were allowed to return).

The significance of Mecca is largely historical –– it was basically the epicenter of Islam –– and partially religious, since Muslims pray in the direction of the Kaaba, which is in Mecca.

Wasn't it Al-Aqsa? I know at least that he got to the Temple Mount complex, but which specific site remains debated.

[Grenartia]

Dose he have a Vagina? And it is said Allah is a male figure.

To attribute physical properties to God, much less a sexual organ, is blasphemy.

God is not of a gender, but to call Him It would be rude, and They implies a plural.

They can be singular, though.

[Seljuq Kyiv]

To attribute physical properties to God, much less a sexual organ, is blasphemy.

God is not of a gender, but to call Him It would be rude, and They implies a plural.

They can be singular, though.

Nvm, found an answer.

[...] Languages like Arabic, though, have no neuter gender, and such masculine or feminine pronominal references carry no connotations of humanness. The femininity of shams (Arabic for "sun") or the masculinity of qamar (Arabic for "moon") is grammatical gender based purely on language convention. It is normal and expected, in other words, to refer to shams with hiya (Arabic for "she"), and to qamar with huwa (Arabic for "he").

If inferring personification from this language conventions is a mistake, inferring misogyny is plain contradiction, for the feminine shams is greater than the masculine qamar. The great Muslim poet, Mutannabbi, wrote, "Neither is femininity a defect for the word, shams / nor masculinity a pride for qamar" [4]

[...]

The Quran refers to Allah using the masculine pronoun huwa because the word "Allah" is grammatically masculine, not because Allah is naturally masculine (Allah be our refuge). In English, using "He" for something without natural gender connotes personification, but not in Arabic. There is no implied anthropomorphism whatsoever. Neither, as explained above, is there any trace of misogyny.

To affirm a natural gender for Allah Most High flatly contradicts the clear Quranic verse, "There is nothing whatsoever like unto Him." (Quran, 42:11) If this is plain for Muslims, it is confusing for others, not merely because purely grammatical masculinity is alien to the English mind, but also because no religion besides Islam affirms divine transcendence with such force.

[...]

Absolute divine transcendence requires tawhid (pure divine unity), and the only religion of tawhid is Islam.

To a Muslim who is grounded in the transcendent tawhid of Islam, ascribing biological gender to God is unimaginable heresy. The great jurist and theologian, Imam al-Tahawi, wrote in his celebrated creed, "Whoever ascribes any human attribute to Allah has disbelieved. Whoever understands this will take heed, refrain from speaking as the disbelievers do, and know that Allah’s attributes do not resemble those of humans."[7]

[...]

"Say, “The truth is that Allah is One. Allah is Besought of all, needing none. He begot not, nor was He begotten. And like Him has never been any one"" (Quran, 112:1—4) In this context, the masculinity of huwa with respect to Allah is unmistakably a purely grammatical masculinity without even a hint of anthropomorphism.

[...]

If huwa here implies no anthropomorphism, then neither would hiya. Why, then, choose huwa over hiya?

[...] the Quran normally mentions destructive winds of punishment in the singular—rih—and gentle winds of rain in the plural—riyah. The singular rih is grammatically masculine, but the plural riyah is grammatically feminine. [9] Masculinity connotes powerful majesty, femininity connotes gentle mercy. [10]

Our primary relationship with Allah Most High is worship: "I created men and jinn for aught but to worship Me." (51:56) Worship is the realization of the servant's utter neediness before the Master's complete majesty (just imagine the prostration position). Like the powerful winds, the grammatical masculinity of the word Allah connotes majesty that helps us realize our servanthood to our Lord. [11]

[...]

The third is wrong perspective. Whereas a humanist perspective makes indignant demands of God, the humble perspective of slavehood uses the grammatical masculinity of the word "Allah" to find peace in worship of its majestic Master.

And Allah Most High knows best.

[...]

[11] Abdal Hakim Murad explains how certain rhetorical connotations of femininity are also used to describe Allah Most High. He says, "In fact, by far the most conspicuous of the Divine Names in the Qur'an is al-Rahman, the All-Compassionate. And the explictly feminine resonances of this name were remarked upon by the Prophet (s.w.s.) himself, who taught that rahma, loving compassion, is an attribute derived from the word rahim, meaning a womb. (Bukhari, Adab, 13) The cosmic matrix from which differentiated being is fashioned is thus, as in all primordial systems, explicitly feminine; although Allah ‘an sich’ remains outside qualification by gender or by any other property."

http://spa.qibla.com/issue_view.asp?HD= ... 7&CATE=150

[Degenerate Heart of HetRio]

God is a He in Spanish and Portuguese too.

[Calimera II]

I am not keen on how many Muslim behave abroad in christian countries. And when you say something about it, people call you "racist". Mmmmmm

[Degenerate Heart of HetRio]

I am not keen on how many Muslim behave abroad in christian countries. And when you say something about it, people call you "racist". Mmmmmm

Because xenophobia, religionism, stereotypes, generalization and regarding all underdeveloped world people as barbarian is bad, maybe. Mmmmmm.

[Nervium]

She's mentioned more in the Quran than in the New Testament. She is one of the most righteous women in Islam and one of if not the most respected.

In what context is she mentioned? If my religious studies are right, Jesus doesn't have much of the spotlight in the Quran.

Jesus is the most quoted prophet in the Quran.
The guy's is doing a musical in it basically, that's how much spotlight he has.

[Stagnant Axon Terminal]

I am not keen on how many Muslim behave abroad in christian countries. And when you say something about it, people call you "racist". Mmmmmm

Well maybe you should stop lumping us together as a collective hive mind of muslims because we aren't. Some muslims behave badly but most of us are just as well behaved as anyone else.
And what countries are you referring to when you are talking about "Christian" countries?

[Divair]

I am not keen on how many Muslim behave abroad in christian countries. And when you say something about it, people call you "racist". Mmmmmm

Christian countries? Are we talking about the Vatican?

[Puerto Tyranus]

I am not keen on how many Muslim behave abroad in christian countries. And when you say something about it, people call you "racist". Mmmmmm

Christian countries? Are we talking about the Vatican?

That would have to be it...I guess that it could also be England, considering that the Queen it still the head of a Religious sect...

Edit: And lumping all Muslims abroad in with a few bad apples is just in poor taste Mr. Calimera II, poor taste indeed.

[Divair]

Christian countries? Are we talking about the Vatican?

That would have to be it...I guess that it could also be England, considering that the Queen it still the head of a Religious sect...

Edit: And lumping all Muslims abroad in with a few bad apples is just in poor taste Mr. Calimera II, poor taste indeed.

Yet a huge number of people are irreligious and the government is less influenced by religion than the Yanks' government.

It's barely Christian on paper, and definitely not Christian in practice.

[Puerto Tyranus]

That would have to be it...I guess that it could also be England, considering that the Queen it still the head of a Religious sect...

Edit: And lumping all Muslims abroad in with a few bad apples is just in poor taste Mr. Calimera II, poor taste indeed.

Yet a huge number of people are irreligious and the government is less influenced by religion than the Yanks' government.

It's barely Christian on paper, and definitely not Christian in practice.

Exactly! It must be Vatican City that he is talking about. Though...that can't be the case because nearly every person of Islamic faith that visits the Vatican behaves politely and respectfully...how odd.

[Divair]

Yet a huge number of people are irreligious and the government is less influenced by religion than the Yanks' government.

It's barely Christian on paper, and definitely not Christian in practice.

Exactly! It must be Vatican City that he is talking about. Though...that can't be the case because nearly every person of Islamic faith that visits the Vatican behaves politely and respectfully...how odd.

That makes me wonder how many Muslims actually visit the Vatican.

[Stagnant Axon Terminal]

Exactly! It must be Vatican City that he is talking about. Though...that can't be the case because nearly every person of Islamic faith that visits the Vatican behaves politely and respectfully...how odd.

That makes me wonder how many Muslims actually visit the Vatican.

Approximately -4 a year.

[Puerto Tyranus]

That makes me wonder how many Muslims actually visit the Vatican.

Approximately -4 a year.

Really it is only ever scholars or national leaders invited there by the Pope.

Edit: Ergo, they are, as a rule, always respectful and kind.

[Islamic Commune]

I am not keen on how many Muslim behave abroad in christian countries. And when you say something about it, people call you "racist". Mmmmmm

I'm going to assume you mean European or Western countries when you say that.

I'm actually quite curious. I read all the time about how Europeans are just tired of Muslims living in their countries, which in a way offends me because I am a Muslim who has immigrated to the Western world. However, it is not racist to dislike Muslims, because Muslims are not a race.

I would like to ask you a general question, and you are free to answer it, because I will tolerate anything you say. What exactly are Muslims doing in the Western World that is angering the natives? I probably know some of these things, but if you give me an answer, I could probably reply.

[Kemalist]

Exactly! It must be Vatican City that he is talking about. Though...that can't be the case because nearly every person of Islamic faith that visits the Vatican behaves politely and respectfully...how odd.

That makes me wonder how many Muslims actually visit the Vatican.

That reminds me of how non-Muslims are not allowed to visit Qa'aba.

[Divair]

That makes me wonder how many Muslims actually visit the Vatican.

That reminds me of how non-Muslims are not allowed to visit Qa'aba.

'Tis a shame.

[Kemalist]

That reminds me of how non-Muslims are not allowed to visit Qa'aba.

'Tis a shame.

I'm thinking of trolling it sometime. How could they know?

[Islamic Commune]

'Tis a shame.

I'm thinking of trolling it sometime. How could they know?

Well how do you know if someone's a Muslim or not? One cannot possibly read the intentions of an individual. If someone really wanted to visit the Qa'aba, they could claim to be a Muslim, and because Islam is not an identity based upon cultural, ethnic or national identities, they cannot claim that you are not. (And if they are, they are racist and should have no authority over these kinds of things)

I think the intention behind this so called, "Restriction" is so that people don't go and take tourist photos wearing beachwear near the epicentre of the Islamic religion.

Personally, I would allow anyone to visit Mecca on the condition that they wear and eat the same as other Muslims do when they visit.

[Virana]

I'm thinking of trolling it sometime. How could they know?

Well how do you know if someone's a Muslim or not? One cannot possibly read the intentions of an individual. If someone really wanted to visit the Qa'aba, they could claim to be a Muslim, and because Islam is not an identity based upon cultural, ethnic or national identities, they cannot claim that you are not. (And if they are, they are racist and should have no authority over these kinds of things)

I think the intention behind this so called, "Restriction" is so that people don't go and take tourist photos wearing beachwear near the epicentre of the Islamic religion.

Personally, I would allow anyone to visit Mecca on the condition that they wear and eat the same as other Muslims do when they visit.

It's Saudi Arabia, dude. They don't care about being racist.

I'm Muslim and had to show proof of being Muslim when applying for an Umrah visa before going to Saudi Arabia. I can't remember what exactly they did at the checkpoint when we were entering the city, but I'm pretty sure they looked at my Umrah visa and considered that to be reasonable evidence that I was Muslim. Saudi Arabia, as far as I know, doesn't really grant traditional tourism visas, so it's difficult for non-Muslims to enter the country in the first place.

I do remember there were highway signs on the way in that mandated Non-Muslims to go on the Mecca "bypass" rather than being allowed into the city.