Islam/Muslim Discussion Thread

[The Scientific States]

Both the Old Testament and New Testament explicitly approve slavery.

By your logic, all adherents of Abrahamic Religions should approve of slavery.

I'd hardly call it slavery.

Why?

Slavery is forced labour without pay. This is approved of in the bible.

[Kemalist]

Happy birthday muhammed! i'll drink a toast to you, old friend.

Mohammad was a cool guy. He was the Che Guevara of his period.

[Menassa]

I'd hardly call it slavery.

Why?

Slavery is forced labour without pay. This is approved of in the bible.

Biblically, and that is with the Torahs there are two types of servitude and in those two types of servitude are two distinct ways to become a servant.
One of them fits in with the 13th Amendment of the US constitution.

Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.

One of the servitude is punishment for a crime, if a man commits a crime and cannot repay his debt he must work for that debt to be repaid.
The other is when a human willingly sells himself into slavery because he cannot afford to live on his own, so in exchange for food and shelter he works.

In half of the slavery all of these are minimally 6 years, then the man can choose to leave if he wants or stay until the 50th year (in a yearly cycle) where he is freed and the master must give him many gifts.


While the person is a slave he must be treated better than the master would treat himself... which is probably why the quote exists.
"He who acquires himself a slave, acquires himself a master."

[Absurrania]

Happy birthday muhammed! i'll drink a toast to you, old friend.

Lahowla Walaguuwati Illah Billah. Do not make such jokes, as Islam is against celebrating birthdays and other holidays that are made up, and is especially against celebrating the birthdays of those of religious importance. That is why pictures of Prophet Muhammed(pbuh), cannot be shown, and even his grave is locked and barred. People tend to stray from worshipping god to worshipping Prophets and others like them, in the false belief that they can reach god through them.

Question - why have islamic countries made slavery illegal?
Allah explicitly approves of slavery in the Quran and offers his own set of rules.

The Quran allows for slavery of non-Muslims, but demands that they be treated fairly and with decency. However, slavery is pretty much useless today and any attempt to revive it would cause far more harm that gain. Besides, I'm sure that enslaving random non-Muslims who owe no debts to you or haven't committed a crime is against the rules of Islam. And even if you were only to enslave criminals, the way Muslims governments tend to handle things today, there is no guarantee they would be treated properly.

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/quran/023-violence.htm

And don't say this is hypocritical because I'm Christian.

a) Website is unreliable source clearly biased against Islam.
b) Don't call out another religion on some absurd claim and then say not to call your religion out on that same absurd claim. That doesn't work, and we've been over that.
c) You tried to state this "point", but horribly failed in your own thread, and subsequently ran away the second your failure was evident. The proof of your failure is here for display at:http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=278934
d) Don't go trolling about the same topic repeatedly.
e) I think that, as a lifetime Muslim, I know just a smidge more about whether or not Islam advocates violence than some Christian dude on the Internet who seems to get 99% of his information on Islam from the terror instigating media, the Taliban, Al-Qaeda, Al-Shabab, Hezbollah, and a website that is designed to be against Islam.

[Anollasia]

Happy birthday muhammed! i'll drink a toast to you, old friend.

Lahowla Walaguuwati Illah Billah. Do not make such jokes, as Islam is against celebrating birthdays and other holidays that are made up, and is especially against celebrating the birthdays of those of religious importance. That is why pictures of Prophet Muhammed(pbuh), cannot be shown, and even his grave is locked and barred. People tend to stray from worshipping god to worshipping Prophets and others like them, in the false belief that they can reach god through them.

Question - why have islamic countries made slavery illegal?
Allah explicitly approves of slavery in the Quran and offers his own set of rules.

The Quran allows for slavery of non-Muslims, but demands that they be treated fairly and with decency. However, slavery is pretty much useless today and any attempt to revive it would cause far more harm that gain. Besides, I'm sure that enslaving random non-Muslims who owe no debts to you or haven't committed a crime is against the rules of Islam. And even if you were only to enslave criminals, the way Muslims governments tend to handle things today, there is no guarantee they would be treated properly.

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/quran/023-violence.htm

And don't say this is hypocritical because I'm Christian.

a) Website is unreliable source clearly biased against Islam.
b) Don't call out another religion on some absurd claim and then say not to call your religion out on that same absurd claim. That doesn't work, and we've been over that.
c) You tried to state this "point", but horribly failed in your own thread, and subsequently ran away the second your failure was evident. The proof of your failure is here for display at:http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=278934
d) Don't go trolling about the same topic repeatedly.
e) I think that, as a lifetime Muslim, I know just a smidge more about whether or not Islam advocates violence than some Christian dude on the Internet who seems to get 99% of his information on Islam from the terror instigating media, the Taliban, Al-Qaeda, Al-Shabab, Hezbollah, and a website that is designed to be against Islam.

I'm a Muslim and I celebrate my birthday. Problem?

[Kemalist]

Do not make such jokes, as Islam is against celebrating birthdays and other holidays that are made up, and is especially against celebrating the birthdays of those of religious importance.

Turkey celebrates Holy Birth Week which is dedicated to Muhammad. Actually the tradition was started by a group of islamists during 1980s and then became popular. But of course; we Turks have a different understanding of Islam, more blended with our ancient shamanic beliefs. We give importance to graves and yet they are banned in Saudi Arabia for example.

[Absurrania]

I'm a Muslim and I celebrate my birthday. Problem?

Islamically, it is not supposed to be celebrated. However, that is between you and Allah, not you and me. But my earlier comment referred to the celebration of Prophet Muhammed's (pbuh) birthday, although we don't really know when he was born, as that would quickly lead to some sort of worship towards him.

[Taoju]

I'm a Muslim and I celebrate my birthday. Problem?

Islamically, it is not supposed to be celebrated. However, that is between you and Allah, not you and me. But my earlier comment referred to the celebration of Prophet Muhammed's (pbuh) birthday, although we don't really know when he was born, as that would quickly lead to some sort of worship towards him.

Explain why Malaysia and Brunei, presumably Islamic nations, celebrate it anyways?

[Seljuq Kyiv]

Question - why have islamic countries made slavery illegal?
Allah explicitly approves of slavery in the Quran and offers his own set of rules.

It's legal, it's regulated, but it's just that — legal. Slavery is frowned upon, and if it has to be done you are commanded to treat them as you would other free human beings (with respect, kindness, etc. — as brothers), if not better. Slaves have rights just as any other citizen of the state, and these rights cannot be infringed upon.

There is this mental picture when one hears slaves of whipping and beating. Such is forbidden in Islam, and its punishment is Hellfire.

Above all, the greatest thing you could is free your slaves.

[Seljuq Kyiv]

Islamically, it is not supposed to be celebrated. However, that is between you and Allah, not you and me. But my earlier comment referred to the celebration of Prophet Muhammed's (pbuh) birthday, although we don't really know when he was born, as that would quickly lead to some sort of worship towards him.

Explain why Malaysia and Brunei, presumably Islamic nations, celebrate it anyways?

Well, I believe that it is ok to celebrate, as long as you don't go overboard. Muhammad (saw) used to celebrate his birthday by fasting every Monday (the day he was born).

But then again you often find in the various nations Islam has touched that these cultures evolve by themselves, often adding bits and pieces of their own pre-Islamic culture into the mix.

Do not make such jokes, as Islam is against celebrating birthdays and other holidays that are made up, and is especially against celebrating the birthdays of those of religious importance.

Turkey celebrates Holy Birth Week which is dedicated to Muhammad. Actually the tradition was started by a group of islamists during 1980s and then became popular. But of course; we Turks have a different understanding of Islam, more blended with our ancient shamanic beliefs. We give importance to graves and yet they are banned in Saudi Arabia for example.

Well, as long as you don't ask for help from the graves or its occupants (praying for the occupants of the graves (ie their safety in the hereafter, forgiveness for them by God, etc.) is a noble endeavor).

[Southern Arkansas]

Islamically, it is not supposed to be celebrated. However, that is between you and Allah, not you and me. But my earlier comment referred to the celebration of Prophet Muhammed's (pbuh) birthday, although we don't really know when he was born, as that would quickly lead to some sort of worship towards him.

Explain why Malaysia and Brunei, presumably Islamic nations, celebrate it anyways?

No nation on earth 100% follows Shariah Law.

[Leningrad Union]

Damn right I support it

You're being sarcastic. I really hope you are.

If it is in the Torah, I support it.

JK!

[Benuty]

Question - why have islamic countries made slavery illegal?
Allah explicitly approves of slavery in the Quran and offers his own set of rules.

Both the Old Testament and New Testament explicitly approve slavery.

By your logic, all adherents of Abrahamic Religions should approve of slavery.

Either way the NT does not explicitly approve slavery "because slavery" the letters of the Tarsusian couldn't condone open slave resistance (unless you want to invoke the wrath of the Roman justice system for supporting slave insurrection). As for the Tanach I would hardly call it slavery given its status of proprietorship rather than direct ownership (as it would be forbidden on the basis of humanity). These are human beings the laws deal with not to be treated as sub-humans (as echoed throughout history). It seems Menassa beat me to the rest of it (oh well).

[Menassa]

Both the Old Testament and New Testament explicitly approve slavery.

By your logic, all adherents of Abrahamic Religions should approve of slavery.

[...] It seems Menassa beat me to the rest of it (oh well).

*insert Jew-Jitsu picture*

[Glorious Wonderland]

Question - why have islamic countries made slavery illegal?
Allah explicitly approves of slavery in the Quran and offers his own set of rules.

Because you know...not all of us are Qur'an literalists and wish to remain in pre-medieval era. Slavery is simply morally despicable and even in Muhammad's era it is not condoned.

Another question, what are my fellow Muslims' stance for human evolution? Is it stand in contrary for your understanding of Quran?

[Virana]

Question - why have islamic countries made slavery illegal?
Allah explicitly approves of slavery in the Quran and offers his own set of rules.

Because you know...not all of us are Qur'an literalists and wish to remain in pre-medieval era. Slavery is simply morally despicable and even in Muhammad's era it is not condoned.

Another question, what are my fellow Muslims' stance for human evolution? Is it stand in contrary for your understanding of Quran?

Evolution doesn't contradict anything in the Qur'an in my opinion. The only areas where people think it contradicts Quranic verses are when the Qur'an is still popularly interpreted in archaic, outdated ways that contradict not just evolution, but most modern science.

Empirical and observational evidence in favor of evolutionary theories effectively debunk the idea that evolution and natural selection aren't basic facts of nature. Only those who interpret the Qur'an in a modern, moderate way with an open mind will be able to understand that nothing in the Qur'an contradicts modern science.

Anyways, what's your view?

[Seljuq Kyiv]

Explain why Malaysia and Brunei, presumably Islamic nations, celebrate it anyways?

No nation on earth 100% follows Shariah Law.

Aye. The government has done nothing to stop alcohol or smoking amongst Muslims here. Meanwhile we are still yapping about Christians using the word Allah (which translates to THE GOD — a semantics failure as it refers to a singular indivisible Being in contrast to the Trinity, but not exactly threatening the religion, etc.) and the smallest things.

[Taoju]

No nation on earth 100% follows Shariah Law.

Aye. The government has done nothing to stop alcohol or smoking amongst Muslims here. Meanwhile we are still yapping about Christians using the word Allah (which translates to THE GOD — a semantics failure as it refers to a singular indivisible Being in contrast to the Trinity, but not exactly threatening the religion, etc.) and the smallest things.

And Malaysia is extremely diverse so~

Good luck imposing Shariah and driving all the Chinese or Hindu business owners away :/

[Glorious Wonderland]

Evolution doesn't contradict anything in the Qur'an in my opinion. The only areas where people think it contradicts Quranic verses are when the Qur'an is still popularly interpreted in archaic, outdated ways that contradict not just evolution, but most modern science.

Empirical and observational evidence in favor of evolutionary theories effectively debunk the idea that evolution and natural selection aren't basic facts of nature. Only those who interpret the Qur'an in a modern, moderate way with an open mind will be able to understand that nothing in the Qur'an contradicts modern science.

Anyways, what's your view?

I view evolution as a valid way of human creation. I oppose concept of Adam as the first human, despite I'm rather torn off in regard of whether the story of Adam is purely allegorical/symbolic or that he's indeed the first prophet of Allah.

[Taoju]

Evolution doesn't contradict anything in the Qur'an in my opinion. The only areas where people think it contradicts Quranic verses are when the Qur'an is still popularly interpreted in archaic, outdated ways that contradict not just evolution, but most modern science.

Empirical and observational evidence in favor of evolutionary theories effectively debunk the idea that evolution and natural selection aren't basic facts of nature. Only those who interpret the Qur'an in a modern, moderate way with an open mind will be able to understand that nothing in the Qur'an contradicts modern science.

Anyways, what's your view?

I view evolution as a valid way of human creation. I oppose concept of Adam as the first human, despite I'm rather torn off in regard of whether the story of Adam is purely allegorical/symbolic or that he's indeed the first prophet of Allah.

Wasn't there an interprestation where Adam wasn't the first, but a first of many? And that he was chosen by The Lord out of the many?

I don't remember where I heard this from though, so don't take it int too too much.

[Virana]

Evolution doesn't contradict anything in the Qur'an in my opinion. The only areas where people think it contradicts Quranic verses are when the Qur'an is still popularly interpreted in archaic, outdated ways that contradict not just evolution, but most modern science.

Empirical and observational evidence in favor of evolutionary theories effectively debunk the idea that evolution and natural selection aren't basic facts of nature. Only those who interpret the Qur'an in a modern, moderate way with an open mind will be able to understand that nothing in the Qur'an contradicts modern science.

Anyways, what's your view?

I view evolution as a valid way of human creation. I tend to oppose concept of Adam as the first human, despite I'm rather torn off in regard of whether the story of Adam is purely allegorical/symbolic or that he's indeed the first prophet of Allah.

I generally consider the story of Adam as being allegorical/symbolic, but the idea that he is the first prophet is one that interests me.

[Glorious Wonderland]

happy birthday Muhammad, old chap! may peace be always upon to you!

to celebrate your birthday I'm going to finish my the satanic verses, damn book like a bollywood movie with hilarious wordmixing, it's easy to know the writer is an Indian. plus a sirah.

yay mawlid is a holiday here in Indonesia!

[Alouite]

I view evolution as a valid way of human creation. I tend to oppose concept of Adam as the first human, despite I'm rather torn off in regard of whether the story of Adam is purely allegorical/symbolic or that he's indeed the first prophet of Allah.

I generally consider the story of Adam as being allegorical/symbolic, but the idea that he is the first prophet is one that interests me.

You consider the story of adam and eve an Al Gore Story? Lol, just kiddin, if I devoted my religious views to an aberhamic sect I would agree.

[Southern Arkansas]

I personally believe Adam (Peace be upon him) was created from Clay..

[Glorious Wonderland]

I personally believe Adam (Peace be upon him) was created from Clay..

Qur'an (or at least its traditional translation) appear to regard the story of Adam in literal sense, as one verse mention him as the similarity of Jesus -- that is, parentless. And thus I've seen a quite intriguing compromise, that Adam is indeed made without parents, however he isn't the first human--he's a prophet of Allah and taught intelligence by God.