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Obama asks schools to ignore bad behavior by black students

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Nevanmaa
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Postby Nevanmaa » Tue Aug 06, 2013 12:02 pm

Imperializt Russia wrote:
Nevanmaa wrote:I don't see why they would'nt have been. Finland had helped Germany in the invasion and both Hitler and Goebbels had given Finns the status of honorary Aryans. There was a fairly pro-German sentiment in Finland as well. Finland and Germany have always have fairly close relations, after all Germany had trained Jaegers in the First World War so Finland could become independent, then saved Finland by defeating the reds in the Civil War.

The notion that Germany would invade a reliable ally over a few hundred jews is pure madness.

They made the idiotic mistake of invading and fighting Russia.

That was indeed true, defeating the Soviet Union would've been fairly difficult for Germany. Their best bet would've been stopping around Belarus and Ukraine, fortifying a line and then slowly starting to take away Russia's most precious and most important resource; manpower. Retreating when necessary and then counterattacking, causing massive casualties to the Red Army could've saved Germany from defeat.

This is starting to get a little off-topic though.
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Postby Shaggai » Tue Aug 06, 2013 12:03 pm

Yumyumsuppertime wrote:
Thisbia wrote:Wouldn't it be easier to just eliminate the color system, which is unscientific and manipulative? Then we won't have articles like this, and pre-programmed people who have to get in their 'box.'


Unless color itself is eliminated, people will notice it, and we will grapple with systemic racial issues as a result, regardless of whether or not we have official labeling systems. The systems that we have to track race are useful, as they provide benchmarks along the road to equality.

We need to genetically modify people so they produce chlorophyll instead of melanin. Then the only color is green. Also less food will be required to survive and sunburns will be a thing of the past. Everything is awesome for everyone!
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Nevanmaa
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Postby Nevanmaa » Tue Aug 06, 2013 12:04 pm

Fartsniffage wrote:
Nevanmaa wrote:I don't see why they would'nt have been. Finland had helped Germany in the invasion and both Hitler and Goebbels had given Finns the status of honorary Aryans. There was a fairly pro-German sentiment in Finland as well. Finland and Germany have always have fairly close relations, after all Germany had trained Jaegers in the First World War so Finland could become independent, then saved Finland by defeating the reds in the Civil War.

The notion that Germany would invade a reliable ally over a few hundred jews is pure madness.


You planning on addressing any of the criticisms of your OP or are you just going to while away the hours on a threadjack?

Well why the fuck not.

Even if the Examiner's title was misleading, Obama's executive order still proposes reducing punishments and tolerating bad behavior, which is not going to help anyone.
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Postby Yumyumsuppertime » Tue Aug 06, 2013 12:04 pm

Nevanmaa wrote:
Fartsniffage wrote:
You planning on addressing any of the criticisms of your OP or are you just going to while away the hours on a threadjack?

Well why the fuck not.

Even if the Examiner's title was misleading, Obama's executive order still proposes reducing punishments and tolerating bad behavior, which is not going to help anyone.


How does it do so, Hippo? Where in the order does it say to reduce punishments and tolerate bad behavior?

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Postby Fartsniffage » Tue Aug 06, 2013 12:05 pm

Nevanmaa wrote:
Fartsniffage wrote:
You planning on addressing any of the criticisms of your OP or are you just going to while away the hours on a threadjack?

Well why the fuck not.

Even if the Examiner's title was misleading, Obama's executive order still proposes reducing punishments and tolerating bad behavior, which is not going to help anyone.


And don't forget the bit about the news being over a year old....

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Postby Regnum Dominae » Tue Aug 06, 2013 12:06 pm

Nevanmaa wrote:
Fartsniffage wrote:
You planning on addressing any of the criticisms of your OP or are you just going to while away the hours on a threadjack?

Well why the fuck not.

Even if the Examiner's title was misleading, Obama's executive order still proposes reducing punishments and tolerating bad behavior, which is not going to help anyone.

Wrong.

Cannot think of a name wrote:Reading executive orders is some dry ass shit. So anyway...I found the part that we're supposed to be 'worried' about...
(vi) reducing the dropout rate of African American students and helping African American students graduate from high school prepared for college and a career, in part by promoting a positive school climate that does not rely on methods that result in disparate use of disciplinary tools, and by supporting successful and innovative dropout prevention and recovery strategies that better engage African American youths in their learning, help them catch up academically, and provide those who have left the educational system with pathways to reentry;
...
(iii) decreasing the disproportionate number of referrals of African American children from general education to special education by addressing the root causes of the referrals and eradicating discriminatory referrals;

Those, I'm guessing, are the passages that are supposed to lead us all to our doom or some such nonsense.



By "reducing disparate behavior" it means eliminating the double standard where stricter rules are enforced on black people, and bringing school discipline on black people in lie with school discipline on white people.
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Postby Bojikami » Tue Aug 06, 2013 12:06 pm

Nevanmaa wrote:
Geilinor wrote:Would the Nazis have been so friendly if they had won the war?

I don't see why they would'nt have been. Finland had helped Germany in the invasion and both Hitler and Goebbels had given Finns the status of honorary Aryans. There was a fairly pro-German sentiment in Finland as well. Finland and Germany have always have fairly close relations, after all Germany had trained Jaegers in the First World War so Finland could become independent, then saved Finland by defeating the reds in the Civil War.

The notion that Germany would invade a reliable ally over a few hundred jews is pure madness.

Not really. Hitler was insane, and was willing to invade anyone for the "good" of Germany.
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Postby Imperializt Russia » Tue Aug 06, 2013 12:07 pm

Nevanmaa wrote:
Imperializt Russia wrote:They made the idiotic mistake of invading and fighting Russia.

That was indeed true, defeating the Soviet Union would've been fairly difficult for Germany. Their best bet would've been stopping around Belarus and Ukraine, fortifying a line and then slowly starting to take away Russia's most precious and most important resource; manpower. Retreating when necessary and then counterattacking, causing massive casualties to the Red Army could've saved Germany from defeat.

This is starting to get a little off-topic though.

Russia had more people to fight with and had the motivation.
Plus, Germany somehow didn't realise Total War mentality was useful until like 1943, by which point it was way too late.
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Postby Nevanmaa » Tue Aug 06, 2013 12:07 pm

Yumyumsuppertime wrote:
Nevanmaa wrote:Well why the fuck not.

Even if the Examiner's title was misleading, Obama's executive order still proposes reducing punishments and tolerating bad behavior, which is not going to help anyone.


How does it do so, Hippo? Where in the order does it say to reduce punishments and tolerate bad behavior?

(vi) reducing the dropout rate of African American students and helping African American students graduate from high school prepared for college and a career, in part by promoting a positive school climate that does not rely on methods that result in disparate use of disciplinary tools, and by supporting successful and innovative dropout prevention and recovery strategies that better engage African American youths in their learning, help them catch up academically, and provide those who have left the educational system with pathways to reentry;


Fartsniffage wrote:
Nevanmaa wrote:Well why the fuck not.

Even if the Examiner's title was misleading, Obama's executive order still proposes reducing punishments and tolerating bad behavior, which is not going to help anyone.


And don't forget the bit about the news being over a year old....

Yeah, that was my bad.
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Postby Shaggai » Tue Aug 06, 2013 12:08 pm

Nevanmaa wrote:
Fartsniffage wrote:
You planning on addressing any of the criticisms of your OP or are you just going to while away the hours on a threadjack?

Well why the fuck not.

Even if the Examiner's title was misleading, Obama's executive order still proposes reducing punishments and tolerating bad behavior, which is not going to help anyone.

No, it promotes equal punishments. If white kids ar getting x punishment for x behavior, the order says that black kids should too. Nothing more or less.
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Postby Geilinor » Tue Aug 06, 2013 12:08 pm

Regnum Dominae wrote:
Nevanmaa wrote:Well why the fuck not.

Even if the Examiner's title was misleading, Obama's executive order still proposes reducing punishments and tolerating bad behavior, which is not going to help anyone.

Wrong.

Cannot think of a name wrote:Reading executive orders is some dry ass shit. So anyway...I found the part that we're supposed to be 'worried' about...

Those, I'm guessing, are the passages that are supposed to lead us all to our doom or some such nonsense.



By "reducing disparate behavior" it means eliminating the double standard where stricter rules are enforced on black people, and bringing school discipline on black people in lie with school discipline on white people.

Exactly. Apparently Hippo didn't read the "disparate" part. It says nothing about special treatment for black people, it just talks about equal treatment.
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Postby Fartsniffage » Tue Aug 06, 2013 12:09 pm

Nevanmaa wrote:
Yumyumsuppertime wrote:
How does it do so, Hippo? Where in the order does it say to reduce punishments and tolerate bad behavior?

(vi) reducing the dropout rate of African American students and helping African American students graduate from high school prepared for college and a career, in part by promoting a positive school climate that does not rely on methods that result in disparate use of disciplinary tools, and by supporting successful and innovative dropout prevention and recovery strategies that better engage African American youths in their learning, help them catch up academically, and provide those who have left the educational system with pathways to reentry;


Fartsniffage wrote:
And don't forget the bit about the news being over a year old....

Yeah, that was my bad.


So we've got a misleading title, an article that misrepresents the White House press release and then a misleading OP.

Which part is actually true here?

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Postby Geilinor » Tue Aug 06, 2013 12:11 pm

Yumyumsuppertime wrote:
Thisbia wrote:But they don't! They stereotype and promote false preconceptions.


We've noticed that black students tend to do less well in school, and tend to be subjected to greater discipline. This was tracked through the systems we're describing.

What we also managed to discover by keeping track of such things was that there are sound reasons for this that can be directly addressed with an eye towards solving the problem.

I agree. We need to focus on improving social mobility. The US does not offer the most opportunities to its people. Other developed countries have greater upward social mobility. http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/05/us/harder-for-americans-to-rise-from-lower-rungs.html?pagewanted=all American exceptionalists who believe that we are the paramount country of opportunity prevent us from focusing on this.
Last edited by Geilinor on Tue Aug 06, 2013 12:14 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Postby Souseiseki » Tue Aug 06, 2013 12:13 pm

Nevanmaa wrote:
Geilinor wrote:Would the Nazis have been so friendly if they had won the war?

I don't see why they would'nt have been. Finland had helped Germany in the invasion and both Hitler and Goebbels had given Finns the status of honorary Aryans. There was a fairly pro-German sentiment in Finland as well. Finland and Germany have always have fairly close relations, after all Germany had trained Jaegers in the First World War so Finland could become independent, then saved Finland by defeating the reds in the Civil War.

The notion that Germany would invade a reliable ally over a few hundred jews is pure madness.


is this hippostanias "the nazis were great and i wish they won" power hour again

you're right it is kinda off-topic (but also, fits very well)
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Postby Geilinor » Tue Aug 06, 2013 12:15 pm

Souseiseki wrote:
Nevanmaa wrote:I don't see why they would'nt have been. Finland had helped Germany in the invasion and both Hitler and Goebbels had given Finns the status of honorary Aryans. There was a fairly pro-German sentiment in Finland as well. Finland and Germany have always have fairly close relations, after all Germany had trained Jaegers in the First World War so Finland could become independent, then saved Finland by defeating the reds in the Civil War.

The notion that Germany would invade a reliable ally over a few hundred jews is pure madness.


is this hippostanias "the nazis were great and i wish they won" power hour again

you're right it is kinda off-topic (but also, fits very well)

This happened because many of us called Hippo a far-rightist. At least we know how much he loves the Nazis and wishes he was one.
Last edited by Geilinor on Tue Aug 06, 2013 12:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Yumyumsuppertime » Tue Aug 06, 2013 12:18 pm

Ignore this. I need to start over.
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Postby The Black Forrest » Tue Aug 06, 2013 12:20 pm

So how does a thread go from a misleading article over a school issue to Finland in WWII and whether or not Hippo is a wannabe Nazi?

And to reiterate:

Ashmoria wrote:http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2012/07/26/executive-order-white-house-initiative-educational-excellence-african-am

seems like a good idea to me
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Postby Nevanmaa » Tue Aug 06, 2013 12:22 pm

Geilinor wrote:how much he loves the Nazis and wishes he was one.

Oh. Okay. I want to see some sources on that one.
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Postby Indira » Tue Aug 06, 2013 12:25 pm

Your title is misleading at best OP. Try harder next time

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Postby Camelza » Tue Aug 06, 2013 12:26 pm

Geilinor wrote:
Souseiseki wrote:
is this hippostanias "the nazis were great and i wish they won" power hour again

you're right it is kinda off-topic (but also, fits very well)

This happened because many of us called Hippo a far-rightist. At least we know how much he loves the Nazis and wishes he was one.

And don't forget the Apartheid.

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Postby Rubiconic Crossings V2 rev 1f » Tue Aug 06, 2013 12:45 pm

Nevanmaa wrote:
Geilinor wrote:how much he loves the Nazis and wishes he was one.

Oh. Okay. I want to see some sources on that one.


So are you going to revise your thread title and OP?
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Postby Ganos Lao » Tue Aug 06, 2013 12:53 pm

The Black Forrest wrote:So how does a thread go from a misleading article over a school issue to Finland in WWII and whether or not Hippo is a wannabe Nazi?


People only bring up Hippo's Nazi apologetics (and the associated nonsense like how the Finnish Jews would somehow be safe) because it's just ironic that he claims Obama is racist, and yet will gladly throw his support behind some of the most notorious racists of history. It's just another way to challenge his opinions, another dimension of the discussion.
Last edited by Ganos Lao on Tue Aug 06, 2013 12:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.



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Postby Mike the Progressive » Tue Aug 06, 2013 12:53 pm

Well that's just silly. You know why I don't believe this? It would incredibly stupid.

I mean this is Obama we are talking about! What's next? Mandating that all individuals buy health insurance and calling that "meaningful healthcare reform?"

Preposterous!

Do you see what I'm saying?

Just silly. Silly and stupid.

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Postby Diopolis » Tue Aug 06, 2013 12:54 pm

Nevanmaa wrote:Obama is at it again!

On July 26th Obama signed an executive order titled the "African American Education Initiative." The order essentially gives a green light for black students to misbehave in public schools. In two places, Obama's executive order calls on schools to reduce the number disciplinary actions taken against blacks students. The order specifically calls on schools too "not rely on methods that result in disparate use of disciplinary tools."

To comply, public schools would have to engage in a racial quota system of discipline. The executive order will create a new Federal bureaucracy to pressure school systems to comply with the president's demands. The executive order makes no mention of any effort to get black students to improve behavior.

There is a reason why blacks are more likely to be disciplined in school. Black students are more likely to misbehave. The U.S. Department of Justice’s Bureau of Justice Statistics reports that there is a huge crime rate disparity between blacks and other racial groups.

Based on those disparities, one should expect that there would be a disparity in frequency of bad behavior between black and white school students in the public schools.

The DOJ reports that the homicide rate in the black community is nine times greater than in the white community. Between 1976 and 2005, the DOJ reported that blacks averaged 13 percent of the population, but accounted for 59 percent of felony homicide charges and 53 percent of non-felony manslaughter charges. It also might come as no surprise that 93-95 percent of black homicides victims are killed by a black perpetrator. Most of the rest are killed by a Latino perpetrator.

In reality, blacks are already less likely to be suspended for bad behavior than whites. Often, white teachers and administrators are afraid to discipline black students for fear of being called “racists.” Even some black school officials are afraid of being labeled a “sell-out” by black students.

More at: http://www.examiner.com/article/obama-a ... k-students

So, what do you think? Is this yet another attempt by Obama and liberals to create a magical society where everyone are equal and cotton candy rains down from the sky, or a desperate attempt to cover up reality and facts?

What makes you think they're mutually exclusive?
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Postby Frisivisia » Tue Aug 06, 2013 12:56 pm

Mike the Progressive wrote:Well that's just silly. You know why I don't believe this? It would incredibly stupid.

I mean this is Obama we are talking about! What's next? Mandating that all individuals buy health insurance and calling that "meaningful healthcare reform?"

Preposterous!

Do you see what I'm saying?

Just silly. Silly and stupid.

Let's be fair, Obama made me read the bill, it sucked, but it does a lot of good shit.
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