Unbiased as all hell.
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by Frisivisia » Mon Aug 05, 2013 10:17 pm
by The Serbian Empire » Mon Aug 05, 2013 10:17 pm
Exxosia wrote:Our current system is designed in such a way as that unless a voice of reason gets 5% of the vote, they are drowned out. And even if they do get that 5%, that just means the Government has 4 years before the others get a chance to speak and 4 years to undermine them. The only way we'd get a decent chance at a third party is to do away with that 5% thing and have debates from at least the top 8. The Libertarians would tear the Republicans apart, the Socialists and Communists would tear the Democrats down, and the mix of all of them would probably give the citizenry pause for thought.
On a personal front though, I feel a vote for a republican or democrat is now a vote wasted and I will never vote for one again. The only wasted vote is for someone that does not represent you well enough to be worthy of your vote. Who cares if my guy loses? It is not like whoever wins is going to screw me over any less than the other guy who could have won. So in the end, I can at least say I voted with my mind and heart and take some comfort in that.
by Regnum Dominae » Mon Aug 05, 2013 10:17 pm
Frisivisia wrote:Regnum Dominae wrote:If the Libertarian Party wants to achieve anything remotely resembling national relevance, they are going to have to drop their uncompromising extremism as well as kick out the conspiracy theorists, paulites, paleocons, and anarchists.
They're already at 1% (not completely certain with that figure), why would you have them kick the meat of their party out?
by Frisivisia » Mon Aug 05, 2013 10:18 pm
The Serbian Empire wrote:Exxosia wrote:Our current system is designed in such a way as that unless a voice of reason gets 5% of the vote, they are drowned out. And even if they do get that 5%, that just means the Government has 4 years before the others get a chance to speak and 4 years to undermine them. The only way we'd get a decent chance at a third party is to do away with that 5% thing and have debates from at least the top 8. The Libertarians would tear the Republicans apart, the Socialists and Communists would tear the Democrats down, and the mix of all of them would probably give the citizenry pause for thought.
On a personal front though, I feel a vote for a republican or democrat is now a vote wasted and I will never vote for one again. The only wasted vote is for someone that does not represent you well enough to be worthy of your vote. Who cares if my guy loses? It is not like whoever wins is going to screw me over any less than the other guy who could have won. So in the end, I can at least say I voted with my mind and heart and take some comfort in that.
At this point, all votes are wasted unless one lives in Ohio or Florida.
by Greater Miami Shores » Mon Aug 05, 2013 10:19 pm
Frisivisia wrote:Regnum Dominae wrote:If the Libertarian Party wants to achieve anything remotely resembling national relevance, they are going to have to drop their uncompromising extremism as well as kick out the conspiracy theorists, paulites, paleocons, and anarchists.
They're already at 1% (not completely certain with that figure), why would you have them kick the meat of their party out?
by Mike the Progressive » Mon Aug 05, 2013 10:19 pm
by The Serbian Empire » Mon Aug 05, 2013 10:19 pm
Regnum Dominae wrote:Frisivisia wrote:They're already at 1% (not completely certain with that figure), why would you have them kick the meat of their party out?
Because 22 to 24 percent of Americans are socially liberal and economically conservative, and by basing their entire platform around pandering to the extremists and nutters mentioned above, they're alienating that 22 to 24 percent that might actually support them if they weren't batshit insane.
by Frisivisia » Mon Aug 05, 2013 10:20 pm
Regnum Dominae wrote:Frisivisia wrote:They're already at 1% (not completely certain with that figure), why would you have them kick the meat of their party out?
Because 22 to 24 percent of Americans are socially liberal and economically conservative, and by basing their entire platform around pandering to the extremists and nutters mentioned above, they're alienating that 22 to 24 percent that might actually support them if they weren't batshit insane.
by Frisivisia » Mon Aug 05, 2013 10:21 pm
by Regnum Dominae » Mon Aug 05, 2013 10:21 pm
by Minarchist States » Mon Aug 05, 2013 10:21 pm
by Frisivisia » Mon Aug 05, 2013 10:23 pm
by Mike the Progressive » Mon Aug 05, 2013 10:23 pm
Regnum Dominae wrote:Greater Miami Shores wrote:
lol, what I don't like about them is their anti pro USA, isolationist friendly foreign policy with our declared enemies.
Yeah, that too. Isolation is just fundamentally stupid in every way - as the world hegemon, we have the biggest, most powerful military in the world, with by far the best ability to project force globally, and as such we have something of a responsibility to the world; to suddenly pretend that that responsibility does not exist is simply stupid and counterproductive.
Unless, of course, you want a bipolar system (bad), or Russia or China as the hegemon (even worse).
by Frisivisia » Mon Aug 05, 2013 10:24 pm
Mike the Progressive wrote:Regnum Dominae wrote:Yeah, that too. Isolation is just fundamentally stupid in every way - as the world hegemon, we have the biggest, most powerful military in the world, with by far the best ability to project force globally, and as such we have something of a responsibility to the world; to suddenly pretend that that responsibility does not exist is simply stupid and counterproductive.
Unless, of course, you want a bipolar system (bad), or Russia or China as the hegemon (even worse).
Bipolarity isn't something I'm as concerned about as I am multipolarity. This idea if we let every nation do what they want, everything will be hunky dory. It's literally how world wars began.
by The Serbian Empire » Mon Aug 05, 2013 10:24 pm
Frisivisia wrote:Regnum Dominae wrote:Because 22 to 24 percent of Americans are socially liberal and economically conservative, and by basing their entire platform around pandering to the extremists and nutters mentioned above, they're alienating that 22 to 24 percent that might actually support them if they weren't batshit insane.
In addition to the fact that everyone thinks they're economically conservative even though I'm sure they like their big government programs, one of your sources is hardly unbiased, the "free minds and free markets" one.
Either way, social liberals and economic conservatives fit right into the Democratic Party. We call them moderates and think they're kinda funny.
by Greater Miami Shores » Mon Aug 05, 2013 10:25 pm
Mike the Progressive wrote:Regnum Dominae wrote:Yeah, that too. Isolation is just fundamentally stupid in every way - as the world hegemon, we have the biggest, most powerful military in the world, with by far the best ability to project force globally, and as such we have something of a responsibility to the world; to suddenly pretend that that responsibility does not exist is simply stupid and counterproductive.
Unless, of course, you want a bipolar system (bad), or Russia or China as the hegemon (even worse).
Bipolarity isn't something I'm as concerned about as I am multipolarity. This idea if we let every nation do what they want, everything will be hunky dory. It's literally how world wars began.
by Frisivisia » Mon Aug 05, 2013 10:26 pm
The Serbian Empire wrote:Frisivisia wrote:In addition to the fact that everyone thinks they're economically conservative even though I'm sure they like their big government programs, one of your sources is hardly unbiased, the "free minds and free markets" one.
Either way, social liberals and economic conservatives fit right into the Democratic Party. We call them moderates and think they're kinda funny.
Until you realize the Democrat Party isn't quite liberal enough on the Social Policies at this time least they lose some of those valuable voters in Ohio and can't win a national election. The politicians lag far behind the people voting for them.
by The Serbian Empire » Mon Aug 05, 2013 10:26 pm
by Regnum Dominae » Mon Aug 05, 2013 10:26 pm
Mike the Progressive wrote:Regnum Dominae wrote:Yeah, that too. Isolation is just fundamentally stupid in every way - as the world hegemon, we have the biggest, most powerful military in the world, with by far the best ability to project force globally, and as such we have something of a responsibility to the world; to suddenly pretend that that responsibility does not exist is simply stupid and counterproductive.
Unless, of course, you want a bipolar system (bad), or Russia or China as the hegemon (even worse).
Bipolarity isn't something I'm as concerned about as I am multipolarity. This idea if we let every nation do what they want, everything will be hunky dory. It's literally how world wars began.
by Mike the Progressive » Mon Aug 05, 2013 10:26 pm
by Frisivisia » Mon Aug 05, 2013 10:27 pm
Mike the Progressive wrote:Greater Miami Shores wrote:
Agreed.
I mean don't get me wrong the US could be more responsible and more consistent, I'd like us to do more work in getting Europe (NATO) on board and involved. But honestly that's my preference over a world where every region is competing against each other.
by Regnum Dominae » Mon Aug 05, 2013 10:29 pm
Frisivisia wrote:Mike the Progressive wrote:
Bipolarity isn't something I'm as concerned about as I am multipolarity. This idea if we let every nation do what they want, everything will be hunky dory. It's literally how world wars began.
I think it's more along the lines of, "Everything won't be hunky dory, but we don't care about other people, we take care of our own first and only. Fuckin' foreigners."
by Mike the Progressive » Mon Aug 05, 2013 10:30 pm
Frisivisia wrote:Mike the Progressive wrote:
I mean don't get me wrong the US could be more responsible and more consistent, I'd like us to do more work in getting Europe (NATO) on board and involved. But honestly that's my preference over a world where every region is competing against each other.
And that's why you vote Democrat, right? *audible wink*
by The Serbian Empire » Mon Aug 05, 2013 10:30 pm
Frisivisia wrote:The Serbian Empire wrote:Until you realize the Democrat Party isn't quite liberal enough on the Social Policies at this time least they lose some of those valuable voters in Ohio and can't win a national election. The politicians lag far behind the people voting for them.
I'm not even sure how the statements fit together in this post, or what I'm supposed to draw from it.
by Frisivisia » Mon Aug 05, 2013 10:32 pm
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