An Independent Native American State?

[Genivaria]

sooooo what your saying is that the conqueror should give the conqured their land back. am i reading you correctly?
it is almost laughable to think in such a way.

You do realize that the vast majority of nations in Africa were granted independence from the nations that conquered them in the 1960's?

Most of the natives were still around to have the land returned to them.
Native Americans...not so much.

[The Parkus Empire]

Let them have their own State. A state OF the United States.

Texas

[Mike the Progressive]

Let them have their own State. A state OF the United States.

The problem is it wouldn't work. Because not all of the tribes see themselves as one state.

[The Parkus Empire]

Let them have their own State. A state OF the United States.

The problem is it wouldn't work. Because not all of the tribes see themselves as one state.

But they all talkum like this....

[Occupied Deutschland]

Let them have their own State. A state OF the United States.

Oklahoma was the answer to that. Things changed.
From a modern perspective, segregation of Indians probably isn't the best solution.

[Genivaria]

Let them have their own State. A state OF the United States.

The problem is it wouldn't work. Because not all of the tribes see themselves as one state.

And any one tribe is not large enough to constitute it's own territory.

[Shirah Mataniya]

Should we also have a country for all those of African and Asian descent?

That is irrelevant in my opinion and has nothing to do with Native Americans. The Native Americans had their native lands taken from them, hence why they are called Native Americans - Africans and Asians are not native to the United States therefore it would be quite ridiculous for them to declare an independent nation with the United States. Besides those of African descent dominate many nations in the Caribbean.

[Geilinor]

If the majority of people within a tribe want to become independent, then I see no problem in it. What would it hurt?

I agree. As long as the rights on non-Natives within the area are respected and the government is democratic, I don't see the problem. The fact that the settlers conquered the Native Americans doesn't mean that we still get the right to control the territory without the tribe's permission.

[Genivaria]

Let them have their own State. A state OF the United States.

Oklahoma was the answer to that. Things changed.
From a modern perspective, segregation of Indians probably isn't the best solution.

It's either segregation or integration, because independence isn't happening.

[Cill Airne]

Let them have their own State. A state OF the United States.

If I am not mistaken that's what Oklahoma was intended as, and I believe that plan failed.

[Shirah Mataniya]

The problem is it wouldn't work. Because not all of the tribes see themselves as one state.

And any one tribe is not large enough to constitute it's own territory.

I'm sure Lichtenstein, Andorra, Malta, San Marino and Monaco are all doing quite alright, despite their minuscule land-area.

[Geilinor]

Let them have their own State. A state OF the United States.

The problem is it wouldn't work. Because not all of the tribes see themselves as one state.

Only the tribes that could unify together into one government could have their own state. However, the reservations get more leeway from the federal government than states do.

[Genivaria]

Should we also have a country for all those of African and Asian descent?

That is irrelevant in my opinion and has nothing to do with Native Americans. The Native Americans had their native lands taken from them, hence why they are called Native Americans - Africans and Asians are not native to the United States theerfore it would be quite ridiculous for them to declare an independent nation with the United States. Besides those of African descent dominate many nations in the Caribbean.

They did? Last I heard they didn't recognize property back then.

[Blassland]

They wont have a good time taking back their land, but they are welcome to try

[Mike the Progressive]

Should we also have a country for all those of African and Asian descent?

That is irrelevant in my opinion and has nothing to do with Native Americans. The Native Americans had their native lands taken from them, hence why they are called Native Americans - Africans and Asians are not native to the United States theerfore it would be quite ridiculous for them to declare an independent nation with the United States. Besides those of African descent dominate many nations in the Caribbean.

Right, and some Native Americans aren't really natives, because Kennewick man, being genetically South-Asian, was here first.

Do you see the stupidity in this logic of associating a certain racial/ethnic group with land?

[Geilinor]

That is irrelevant in my opinion and has nothing to do with Native Americans. The Native Americans had their native lands taken from them, hence why they are called Native Americans - Africans and Asians are not native to the United States theerfore it would be quite ridiculous for them to declare an independent nation with the United States. Besides those of African descent dominate many nations in the Caribbean.

They did? Last I heard they didn't recognize property back then.

That doesn't mean that they don't have the right to choose independence if they want it. I support the right to self determination if the majority of people desire independence and can demonstrate a viable form of government.

[Shirah Mataniya]

That is irrelevant in my opinion and has nothing to do with Native Americans. The Native Americans had their native lands taken from them, hence why they are called Native Americans - Africans and Asians are not native to the United States theerfore it would be quite ridiculous for them to declare an independent nation with the United States. Besides those of African descent dominate many nations in the Caribbean.

They did? Last I heard they didn't recognize property back then.

Instead of them seeing land as something to exploit, they seen the land as a living thing that they were to respect. Nonetheless that should not be an excuse.

[Genivaria]

They did? Last I heard they didn't recognize property back then.

That doesn't mean that they don't have the right to choose independence if they want it.

Oh? And what piece of our sovereign territory shall we be giving up then?
Just so we know which American citizens are going to lose their homes and be forced to relocate.

[Mike the Progressive]

They did? Last I heard they didn't recognize property back then.

That doesn't mean that they don't have the right to choose independence if they want it.

Sure it does. Because all the Americans who pushed the natives off their land are dead. My grandfather came here in the 1950s and my mother came here in the 1980s. There are literally millions of others with the same story. They shouldn't be displaced.

As to whether or not native tribes, as they are, deserve independence. If they want it, sure.

[Tlaceceyaya]

That is irrelevant in my opinion and has nothing to do with Native Americans. The Native Americans had their native lands taken from them, hence why they are called Native Americans - Africans and Asians are not native to the United States theerfore it would be quite ridiculous for them to declare an independent nation with the United States. Besides those of African descent dominate many nations in the Caribbean.

They did? Last I heard they didn't recognize property back then.

They did.
Ever heard the urban legend that some natives sold their land for a few beads? That was a trade, from their perspective, for the right to use hunting grounds. And for a lot more than beads, but that's not my point.

[Torsiedellious and Sturmovosk]

I support this. I believe that the Native Americans, or, at least the Sioux, who are dwindling in numbers, deserve their own homeland.

[Geilinor]

That doesn't mean that they don't have the right to choose independence if they want it.

Oh? And what piece of our sovereign territory shall we be giving up then?
Just so we know which American citizens are going to lose their homes and be forced to relocate.

Giving them their own state doesn't have to mean that non-natives will be oppressed. There can certainly be a system of dual citizenship. Also, I'm proposing that non-Native Americans in the area will also be allowed to vote on the subject of independence.

[Genivaria]

Oh? And what piece of our sovereign territory shall we be giving up then?
Just so we know which American citizens are going to lose their homes and be forced to relocate.

Giving them their own state doesn't have to mean that non-natives will be oppressed. There can certainly be a system of dual citizenship.

Then what the hell is the point of giving land by ethnicity? I'm 1/16th something or other Blackfoot native, I hardly deserve land for something that was done before my great-great-great grandfather was even around.

[Shirah Mataniya]

That is irrelevant in my opinion and has nothing to do with Native Americans. The Native Americans had their native lands taken from them, hence why they are called Native Americans - Africans and Asians are not native to the United States theerfore it would be quite ridiculous for them to declare an independent nation with the United States. Besides those of African descent dominate many nations in the Caribbean.

Right, and some Native Americans aren't really natives, because Kennewick man, being genetically South-Asian, was here first.

Do you see the stupidity in this logic of associating a certain racial/ethnic group with land?

So you condone the actions of the U.S. Government and you support what atrocities they have committed towards the natives?
Ultimately you support genocide?

[Genivaria]

Right, and some Native Americans aren't really natives, because Kennewick man, being genetically South-Asian, was here first.

Do you see the stupidity in this logic of associating a certain racial/ethnic group with land?

So you condone the actions of the U.S. Government and you support what atrocities they have committed towards the natives?
Ultimately you support genocide?

Huh, ya know I could've SWORN he didn't actually ever say that. Please don't go throwing around such accusations.