An Independent Native American State?

[Len Hyet]

There has to be some cut-off point. Otherwise we'd see all of the Saxon-descended families start accusing the Norman-descended ones of theft from a 1000 years ago. A generation or two seems like a decent point.

We're talking about legally binding treaties that are still in effect, it isn't the same thing.

The US Government begs to differ

[Greater Tezdrian]

Did you know that Indian reservations are independent nations? Indian Nations are allowed, within limits to govern themselves. Many have their own police forces and courts.

Tribal sovereignty in the United States refers to the inherent authority of indigenous tribes to govern themselves within the borders of the United States of America. The federal government recognizes tribal nations as “domestic dependent nations” and has established a number of laws attempting to clarify the relationship between the federal, state, and tribal governments. The Constitution and later federal laws grant local sovereignty to tribal nations, yet do not grant full sovereignty equivalent to foreign nations, hence the term “domestic dependent nations”.

http://nativeheritageproject.com/2012/0 ... n-nations/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tribal_sov ... ted_States

[Mushet]

We're talking about legally binding treaties that are still in effect, it isn't the same thing.

The US Government begs to differ

No, they don't. They may like to botch them but they never claim that the treaties aren't legally binding, because they are.

[The Urain]

NO! NO! NO!

It is called the United States of America for a reason! UNITED! The last 3 words of the Pledge of Allegiance are "one and indivisible"!

Greater autonomy? Sure. Statehood? That would be a pain to have all those new breakaway states- imagine 128 stars on the flag, give or take.

And isn't the whole Native American belief that land is to be shared? So a Native Nation would OWN the land. Share with America.

Puerto Rico should be independent. Why? Because they're not America, they're de facto independent.

[Mushet]

NO! NO! NO!

It is called the United States of America for a reason! UNITED! The last 3 words of the Pledge of Allegiance are "one and indivisible"!

Greater autonomy? Sure. Statehood? That would be a pain to have all those new breakaway states- imagine 128 stars on the flag, give or take.

And isn't the whole Native American belief that land is to be shared? So a Native Nation would OWN the land. Share with America.

Puerto Rico should be independent. Why? Because they're not America, they're de facto independent.

These are conquered nations with treaty agreements the US has broken the vast majority of the time, they should be able to withdraw if they please.

I doubt any starts would be added to the flag with this plan, you need to broaden your definition as to what a state is.

Oh fantastic ignorance about native beliefs, never saw that coming

And why shouldn't Puerto Rico be part of America and these native nations should whether they want to or not.

[Priory Academy USSR]

There has to be some cut-off point. Otherwise we'd see all of the Saxon-descended families start accusing the Norman-descended ones of theft from a 1000 years ago. A generation or two seems like a decent point.

We're talking about legally binding treaties that are still in effect, it isn't the same thing.

I'm sure the Saxons would have considered the Witenagemot's decision to make Harold Godwinson King of England totally legal, too. Yet the Normans still came over and conquered the country. Suggesting that the Saxons should get all their lands back, though, is absurd.

[Mushet]

We're talking about legally binding treaties that are still in effect, it isn't the same thing.

I'm sure the Saxons would have considered the Witenagemot's decision to make Harold Godwinson King of England totally legal, too. Yet the Normans still came over and conquered the country. Suggesting that the Saxons should get all their lands back, though, is absurd.

It's not the same country anymore, they made that with the normans, these natiosn amde it with the United States government, which last I checked is still around.

[God Kefka]

NO! NO! NO!

It is called the United States of America for a reason! UNITED! The last 3 words of the Pledge of Allegiance are "one and indivisible"!

Greater autonomy? Sure. Statehood? That would be a pain to have all those new breakaway states- imagine 128 stars on the flag, give or take.

And isn't the whole Native American belief that land is to be shared? So a Native Nation would OWN the land. Share with America.

Puerto Rico should be independent. Why? Because they're not America, they're de facto independent.

These are conquered nations with treaty agreements the US has broken the vast majority of the time, they should be able to withdraw if they please.

I doubt any starts would be added to the flag with this plan, you need to broaden your definition as to what a state is.

Oh fantastic ignorance about native beliefs, never saw that coming

And why shouldn't Puerto Rico be part of America and these native nations should whether they want to or not.

Breaking apart the USA right now really isn't the best of ideas... trust me on this...

And I doubt any native community can successfully separate from the USA and function completely as an independent state. They would continue to rely and expect help from the USA while still claiming to be independent...

Why would the USA go along with any of this?

Also, I think it's better at this point to just to ''let bygones be bygones'' and try to fully integrate into US society...

[Mushet]

These are conquered nations with treaty agreements the US has broken the vast majority of the time, they should be able to withdraw if they please.

I doubt any starts would be added to the flag with this plan, you need to broaden your definition as to what a state is.

Oh fantastic ignorance about native beliefs, never saw that coming

And why shouldn't Puerto Rico be part of America and these native nations should whether they want to or not.

Breaking apart the USA right now really isn't the best of ideas... trust me on this...

And I doubt any native community can successfully separate from the USA and function completely as an independent state. They would continue to rely and expect help from the USA while still claiming to be independent...

Why would the USA go along with any of this?

Also, I think it's better at this point to just to ''let bygones be bygones'' and try to fully integrate into US society...

If they can and want to they should be able to, and let bygones be bygones is easy for white settlers to say.

[God Kefka]

Breaking apart the USA right now really isn't the best of ideas... trust me on this...

And I doubt any native community can successfully separate from the USA and function completely as an independent state. They would continue to rely and expect help from the USA while still claiming to be independent...

Why would the USA go along with any of this?

Also, I think it's better at this point to just to ''let bygones be bygones'' and try to fully integrate into US society...

If they can and want to they should be able to, and let bygones be bygones is easy for white settlers to say.

You've got to stay current with the times and not dwell on the past...

By the way, the USA is no longer comprised exclusively of ''white settlers.'' ''Settlers''? That's so pre-20th century...

We all need to learn to get along as Americans now. It's not about race and it's not about what happened hundreds of years ago... it's about now and how to move ahead.

We can try and move ahead and recognize our commonalities as a nation of many cultures... or we can dwell on the past, stay true to ethnic strife and divisions, and try to break a country apart.

Especially as separation from the USA isn't a practical option anyhow...

[Mushet]

If they can and want to they should be able to, and let bygones be bygones is easy for white settlers to say.

You've got to stay current with the times and not dwell on the past...

By the way, the USA is no longer comprised exclusively of ''white settlers.'' ''Settlers''? That's so pre-20th century...

We all need to learn to get along as Americans now. It's not about race and it's not about what happened hundreds of years ago... it's about now and how to move ahead.

We can try and move ahead and recognize our commonalities as a nation of many cultures... or we can dwell on the past, stay true to ethnic strife and divisions, and try to break a country apart.

Especially as separation from the USA isn't a practical option anyhow...

Why shouldn't they be able to pursue independence? Why shouldn't they be able to withdraw from a treaty that is continually broken?

I never said it was, I'm saying that's an easy thing for a white settler to say.

I'm talking about what's happening right now, not dwelling on the past.

[Free Tristania]

Not a big fan of racial nationalism.

Which is why imperialism over other nations or denying them their own self-determination is good , right ? No I think they should not just be allowed home rule: they should become States of their own within the United States or (if they would choose so) become independent.

I think that the Left always used to support national self-determination in the anti-colonial sense but they think of "national self-determination" as ethnic nationalism and thus wrong.

[The Parkus Empire]

Not a big fan of racial nationalism.

Which is why imperial over other nations or denying them their own self-determination is good , right ? No I think they should not just be allowed home rule: they should become States of their own within the United States or (if they would choose so) become independent.

I think that the Left always used to support national self-determination in the anti-colonial sense but they think of "national self-determination" as ethnic nationalism and thus wrong.

They already have nigh states, they're just small ones.

[Mushet]

Which is why imperial over other nations or denying them their own self-determination is good , right ? No I think they should not just be allowed home rule: they should become States of their own within the United States or (if they would choose so) become independent.

I think that the Left always used to support national self-determination in the anti-colonial sense but they think of "national self-determination" as ethnic nationalism and thus wrong.

They already have nigh states, they're just small ones.

Nigh states?